Start Praying in Tongues

[Yeshua1]

So you are going to throw away or misguide others because of what the lawless one is going to be doing?

That statement alone make me want to pray more for the gift of discernment in my life!

The Holy Spirit is here to guide us in all truth! Do you think he will misguide us when the lawless one displays all the false signs?

ALL the truth that he recorded down in the Bible, NOT extar biblical truths that most of Charasmatic chaos seek to follow!

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree with RD. When it is said that the gifts have ceased, that does not mean God cannot use those gifts from time to time to accomplish His work. God can do anything. I think "ceased" means it is not a common event as it was during the book of Acts. I posted in another thread a timeline comparing the book of Acts to Pauls books, and it IMO does a good job showing when these gifts dropped off the radar.

The gifts today are specific and rare. Maybe it is kind of like salvation after the Rapture (this is not a debate about end times), according to some salvation from a conviction by the Holy Spirit will become more rare than now, but will not cease.

This is not the most important thing, and what makes SDAs and Pentecostals so far off the mark. Even if these gifts had not ceased, the error in their doctrine is its emphasis. From reading the Magical Mystery Tour Raiders posts, one gets the impression that tongues, worship on Saturday, and snake bites are more important than telling others about Jesus Christ and worshipping the Lord.

have heard and read from "reputable" sources that God seems to be granting dreams/visions of some type into Muslim/Isalmic strongholds today, but to me , those would be rare exceptions, as he was in the process of prearing peoples to receive message of jesus now!

 

[awaken]

ALL the truth that he recorded down in the Bible, NOT extar biblical truths that most of Charasmatic chaos seek to follow!

What extra truth are you speaking of that contradicts the Bible in any way?

 

[Yeshua1]

What extra truth are you speaking of that contradicts the Bible in any way?

well...

many ghold in Charasmatic churches that tongues MUST be spoken in order to be saved...

jesus died a sinner, had to get born again in hell

God MSUST obey us if we speak/confess the right things

We are little gods

Power in the tongue to create own reality

revelations grantedto modern Apsotles/prophets same level as bible

Will of God always to heal and prosper, but lack of faith/ignorance/unbelief
cause us to not get that

your church into that truth?

 

[Thomas Helwys]

To me, there is also a clear distinction to be made between classical pentacostalists like AoG, and modern Charasmatics!

Pentsacostalists stillhave wrong/ba doctrines in regarding to the person and workings of the Holy spirit, but they claim to have their theolgy from the Bible itself, and are NOT into claiming extra biblcal revelations, faith healers, miracle workers etc...

Charasmatics tend to be the ones into extar revealtions, 5 fold ministries, faith healers etc..

both wrong, but charasmatic really wrong, as they claim the "HS" revelations for most of their teachings, NOT the Bible itself!

I would agree with that.

 

[Chessic]

I'd rather pray the way Jesus prayed, and the way he taught us to pray.

 

[awaken]

have heard and read from "reputable" sources that God seems to be granting dreams/visions of some type into Muslim/Isalmic strongholds today, but to me , those would be rare exceptions, as he was in the process of prearing peoples to receive message of jesus now!

Do you not see in this post how you put limits on God??? God can do what He said he can! He does it without our approval!

 

[awaken]

well...

many ghold in Charasmatic churches that tongues MUST be spoken in order to be saved...

I do not believe that!

jesus died a sinner, had to get born again in hell

I do not believe that!

God MSUST obey us if we speak/confess the right things

I do not believe that! But I do believe we must believe what he says we are to believe and hope for!

We are little gods

I do not believe that! But we are the sons of God!

Power in the tongue to create own reality

I do not believe that!

revelations grantedto modern Apsotles/prophets same level as bible

I do believe in the five fold ministry to the church! I do not believe that God gives revelation that contradicts the Bible in any way!

Will of God always to heal and prosper, but lack of faith/ignorance/unbelief
cause us to not get that

your church into that truth?

I do believe God's will is for us all to be saved and to be healed!

 

[awaken]

I'd rather pray the way Jesus prayed, and the way he taught us to pray.

Do you believe we all know God's perfect will in a situation?

 

[Yeshua1]

I do not believe that!

I do not believe that!

I do not believe that! But I do believe we must believe what he says we are to believe and hope for!

I do not believe that! But we are the sons of God!

I do not believe that!

I do believe in the five fold ministry to the church! I do not believe that God gives revelation that contradicts the Bible in any way!

the problem with that statement is that almost ALL of the false teachings in Charasmatic circles proceed from the son called prophets/apostles of the movement, as their 'revelations' are viewed as equal to scriptures, as ongoing revelations from God!

I do believe God's will is for us all to be saved and to be healed!

Jesus said that MANY will not follow Him, but will continue on their way to perdition...

Either its NOT Gods Will to save all sinners, or else he cannot save all of us, or He allows man to have final say about this!
And where does God say in the NT that we have the right to always be healed and well?

what does your pastor hold to in regards to this? Does he hold to a baptism in the HS, and to tongues going on? Do you have them in service, or have prophecies going on? If so, what is the HS suppossed to saying to your group in those things?

 

[righteousdude2]

I don't agree with either of you!

Yeshua says - >Originally Posted by Yeshua1
To me, there is also a clear distinction to be made between classical pentacostalists like AoG, and modern Charasmatics!

Pentsacostalists stillhave wrong/ba doctrines in regarding to the person and workings of the Holy spirit, but they claim to have their theolgy from the Bible itself, and are NOT into claiming extra biblcal revelations, faith healers, miracle workers etc...

Charasmatics tend to be the ones into extar revealtions, 5 fold ministries, faith healers etc..

both wrong, but charasmatic really wrong, as they claim the "HS" revelations for most of their teachings, NOT the Bible itself!<

And you say >

I would agree with that.

<


I am charismatic, and in no way do I hold to a five-fold ministry, or am I in agreement with healers [that everyone must be healed, and if they are not, they have sin blocking the healing touch]...

Not every charismatic is in that camp. Just like not all Baptist are Free-will, Calvanist, Independent, southern, etc.

Charismatics come in many flavors, and I guess I am charismatic light. I tend to think many of you would like charismatic light, really! :applause:

 

[righteousdude2]

One Member Remains INSULTING and Demenaing!

Matt27 continues to imply [over-and-over] that any one [being members on this board] who may in fact speak in tongues, have gifts that she insists ceased after the book of Acts, possess a prayer language, or hold to any gift that she believes is theologically IMPOSSIBLE for God to grant His people since Pentecost are, and I quote:

- are members of "cults and non Christian sects."

- are, "Mormons.....devil-possessed spiritists....heathen witch doctors in Africa and Asia. Ages ago many heathen religions talked in tongues." The comment on Africa is bordering on racist, cultural slurs and does not reflect a positive image of those from Africa, especially any brothers or sisters from Africa who may be part of Baptist supported mission programs. This is totally unacceptable...

Now I don't know about you, but I think she has definitely crossed the line of Rule #3 - Show grace to the other posters. When someone disagrees with you, discuss it; but be slow to offend, and eager to get into the Word and find the answers. Remember, when discussing passionate issues, it is easy to go too far and offend. Further, if we are "earnestly contending for the faith" it would be unrealistic not to expect at times to be misunderstood or even ridiculed. But please note that your words can sometimes be harsh if used in the wrong way. The anger of man worketh not the righteousness of God. Rule #4 Personal attacks will not be tolerated. The board has an edit button enabled. We encourage you to use it and edit your own words. Moderators and Administrators will be visibly proactive in dealing with potentially offensive situations. Posts of a violent or threatening nature, either implicitly or explicitly, will be deleted, and the poster's membership revoked. We encourage personal problems with other members be resolved privately via email or personal messaging. Rule #5 - No trolling. Trolling consists of provoking large volumes of responses by posting absurdities, deliberately offensive insults, etc.By referring to those who speak in tongues as, "heathen witch doctors in Africa and Asia...many heathen religions talked in tongues" is, AGAIN, a racist, cultural slur against any tribe members from Africa, especially those in mission supported churches from anywhere in Africa? This is totally insulting and insensitive. And should not be allowed per rules of this board. It is typecasting and stereotyping, and it doesn't not belong on this board....I realize it is an opinion, but it seems to be an inappropriate one at that!!!

FURTHERMORE, this member has personally stated that several of the members including myself, who have taken a stand to politely defend and debate the topic belong in the class of people like, "cults and non Christian sects....Mormons.....devil-possessed spiritists."

This implication is teetering on the line of "questioning our salvation, and personally insulting to imply that those who believe, like we do, are directly or indirectly related to any of the above groups."

This member has gotten a little out-of-hand in trying to make their point, and I for one would expect the moderators to take corrective action by removing said insults and implications as they cast light of things other than Godly pursuit of gifts, upon our beliefs.

This is no longer debating, it is insulting and questioning our faith and standing when it comes to Jesus. By saying that those who use tongues are in the class of "cults and non Christian sects....Mormons.....devil-possessed spiritists, or even heathen witch doctors in Africa and Asia. Ages ago many heathen religions talked in tongues" is implying things that just aren't true, and do not belong on this board or any other Christ centered board, irregardless of ones denominational/doctrinal stand on this issue.

Thanks, and know this isn't personal against this member, it is just protecting the integrity of this board, and an environment to conduct healthy, lively debates, without the debate falling into name calling , insults, and slurs.

 

[awaken]

what does your pastor hold to in regards to this? Does he hold to a baptism in the HS, and to tongues going on? Do you have them in service, or have prophecies going on? If so, what is the HS suppossed to saying to your group in those things?

Prophecy in our church is on a personal level. Nothing contradicts scriptures or adds to the Word of God! Tongues is rare but when it is spoken and interpreted it is just as powerful as prophecy!
I do not know how it is done in most churches! But it is always in order and Biblical in ours!

 

[Oldtimer]

Matt27

Now I don't know about you, but I think she has definitely crossed the line of Rule #3 - Show grace to the other posters.

This implication is teetering on the line of "questioning our salvation, and personally insulting to imply that those who believe, like we do, are directly or indirectly related to any of the above groups."

This is no longer debating, it is insulting and questioning our faith and standing when it comes to Jesus.

Thanks, and know this isn't personal against this member, it is just protecting the integrity of this board, and an environment to conduct healthy, lively debates, without the debate falling into name calling , insults, and slurs.

RD2, that's why I no longer read or reply to her posts. While the subject matter was different, she's done the same things to me.

Matthew 7: KJB
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

I knew her by her fruit. Thus, don't need the ill will her posts create, so I'm better off leaving them unread. Brother, may I encourage you to do the same? :flower: --- Leave the fruit she bears unsampled.

 

[Luke2427]

....I do not want even one word of anathema or condemnation for what I am going to say.

What God has given to me is personal, and it is not something I encourage or teach other they need. I am only saying that the Holy Ghost has granted me a prayer language because it is true, at least to me.

Is it for you? Or You? Or even You? I don't know! Only God knows the answer to this, so it isn't for me to say.

When I received my language, I wasn't looking for it. In fact, I had just sat in on a district counsel meeting to help judge a fellow pastor that had such a language, and he was being removed from the association. Of course, his church was another problem, and they with all they had to keep him, even in light of losing their association funded building.

I branded this man a heretic, like many of my brothers, and I didn't think it was funny when a month later I started praying in a language other than the one I was accustomed to speaking in.

I prayed for the thing to leave me alone, but it wouldn't, and while I resigned, quietly from my church, and went on to lead an association pre-school and grade school as their principle. I never let on I had a language all of my own, and that included not using in public.

Eventually, I left the COG/Anderson, Indiana after my first wife decided she wanted to be with another man, and asked for a divorce.

Thi is another story, but years later, I became associated with two different Southern Baptist churches where my prayer language and speaking in tongues was encouraged from the pastor on down, and the second church ordained me.

I've never gone public with my gift because I know how people see a language, and the word says not to place yourself, as a stumbling block, in front of your brothers or sisters.

I will have this language until the day I die, and while I hated it and tried to be rid of it for years, I learned to accept it under two well established SBC pastors which had large congregations, moving in the gifts.

We Californians are marching to a different beat, but you already know this.

:laugh: :smilewinkgrin: :wavey:

I don't want to be mean. And what I am about to say in no way means that you are not a good person. I am sure you are.

Neither does it mean you are dumb. There are intelligent people who believe in tongues.

That said, there is no biblical precedent for gibberish- none.

I might as well testify that God gave me a prayer drawing ability whereby I take up a crayon and start writing mess all over a piece of paper and claim that God and I are communing.

That is nonsense. There is absolutely no biblical support for it.

And the same is true with this "prayer language gibberish" stuff.

They are PRECISELY the same thing and both make exactly the same amount of sense and have the exact same amount of biblical support.



What this "tongues" stuff amounts to is emotional catharsis.

Life is tough and falling into a trance is a relief from it.

Purging yourself of stress and heartache by uttering noise is a relief.

Psychiatrists utilize this practice, and I have no doubt that it helpful.

I am certain that it feels good.

As such, it is a good thing.

But when you start making Bible doctrines out of it, it becomes sin and deception and you need to stop it right now.

 

[righteousdude2]

Great advice my friend....

RD2, that's why I no longer read or reply to her posts. While the subject matter was different, she's done the same things to me.

Matthew 7: KJB
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

I knew her by her fruit. Thus, don't need the ill will her posts create, so I'm better off leaving them unread. Brother, may I encourage you to do the same? :flower: --- Leave the fruit she bears unsampled.

....I am merely trying to grab hold of the mods and hopefully get them to do their job. She is running wild over others, and it is not the way the rulles are stated. As for her fruit. it speaks for itself....:sleep:

 

[Yeshua1]

Prophecy in our church is on a personal level. Nothing contradicts scriptures or adds to the Word of God! Tongues is rare but when it is spoken and interpreted it is just as powerful as prophecy!
I do not know how it is done in most churches! But it is always in order and Biblical in ours!

Do you see prophecy/tongues on par with scriptures, thatthe Holy spirit inspired those "utterances?"

 

[awaken]

Do you see prophecy/tongues on par with scriptures, thatthe Holy spirit inspired those "utterances?"

True prophecy and tongues...I do believe are a manifestation of the Holy Spirit!

 

[Yeshua1]

....I am merely trying to grab hold of the mods and hopefully get them to do their job. She is running wild over others, and it is not the way the rulles are stated. As for her fruit. it speaks for itself....:sleep:

Would say that in this case, she has the right information regarding tongues in the church for today, but also that she needs to say it in a tactful way!

 

[awaken]

Thanks, and know this isn't personal against this member, it is just protecting the integrity of this board, and an environment to conduct healthy, lively debates, without the debate falling into name calling , insults, and slurs.

I am a little confused...is this in reference to me? Because others commenting on this seems as if it is.