Start Praying in Tongues

[awaken]

With groanings too deep for words. Which eliminates this scripture as meaning tongues or a "private prayer language".

Did not say it was tongues! So the Holy Spirit prays to God the Father and we do not know what He is praying, right? ( I am not speaking of tongues here).
No words from us, right?

 

[awaken]

Yes, if fact the verse says "with groanings which cannot be uttered."
It is impossible for the human vocal chords to utter or produce in any way these "groanings of the Holy Spirit." They are of the Holy Spirit alone. They cannot originate from man. He cannot utter them. Therefore, they have nothing whatsoever to do with tongues.

Again, the point that will be proven by the truth of this verse is not tongues! So let everyone put tongues aside!
So you along with others is saying that the Holy Spirit is praying to God the Father without using our vocal cords, correct? That he is praying what we ourselves do not know what to pray for, correct?

 

[righteousdude2]

You hit it on the head.....

So, let me see if I'm understanding this. When someone prays in tongues, they don't know what language (if any) they are using. Presumably the Holy Spirit is causing them to utter words they can't comprehend, but God can understand them.

So, essentially, we have one part of the all-knowing Godhead talking to another part of the all-knowing Godhead about something that the person saying the words has no knowledge of. Does this sound about right?

....it works for me.

 

[Berean]

With groanings too deep for words. Which eliminates this scripture as meaning tongues or a "private prayer language".

Please explan "private prayer language".

 

[Revmitchell]

Please explan "private prayer language".

Thomas does not hold to it. He is just using a phrase some others have used.

 

[righteousdude2]

When you speak....

Thanks for the EDIFICATION (not) I'm sorry my babble is over your head and you lack understanding. If you don't believe my babble maybe you'll believe theirs....funny how gotquestions.org always agrees with me...are we the only ones who have SOUND DOCTRINE?...I'm beginning to think we are!

Question: "What is praying in tongues? Is praying in tongues a prayer language between a believer and God?"

Answer: As a background, please read our article on the gift of speaking in tongues. There are four primary Scripture passages that are cited as evidence for praying in tongues: Romans 8:26; 1 Corinthians 14:4-17; Ephesians 6:18; and Jude verse 20. Ephesians 6:18 and Jude 20 mention “praying in the Spirit.” However, tongues as a prayer language is not a likely interpretation of “praying in the Spirit.”

Romans 8:26 teaches us, “In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.” Two key points make it highly unlikely that Romans 8:26 is referring to tongues as a prayer language. First, Romans 8:26 states that it is the Spirit who “groans,” not believers. Second, Romans 8:26 states that the “groans” of the Spirit “cannot be expressed.” The very essence of speaking in tongues is uttering words.

That leaves us with 1 Corinthians 14:4-17 and verse 14 especially: “For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.” First Corinthians 14:14 distinctly mentions “praying in tongues.” What does this mean? First, studying the context is immensely valuable. First Corinthians chapter 14 is primarily a comparison/contrast of the gift of speaking in tongues and the gift of prophecy. Verses 2-5 make it clear that Paul views prophecy as a gift superior to tongues. At the same time, Paul exclaims the value of tongues and declares that he is glad that he speaks in tongues more than anyone (verse 18).

Acts chapter 2 describes the first occurrence of the gift of tongues. On the day of Pentecost, the apostles spoke in tongues. Acts chapter 2 makes it clear that the apostles were speaking in a human language (Acts 2:6-8). The word translated “tongues” in both Acts chapter 2 and 1 Corinthians chapter 14 is glossa which means “language.” It is the word from which we get our modern English word “glossary.” Speaking in tongues was the ability to speak in a language the speaker does not know, in order to communicate the gospel to someone who does speak that language. In the multicultural area of Corinth, it seems that the gift of tongues was especially valuable and prominent. The Corinthians believers were able to better communicate the gospel and God’s Word as a result of the gift of tongues. However, Paul made it abundantly clear that even in this usage of tongues, it was to be interpreted or “translated” (1 Corinthians 14:13, 27). A Corinthian believer would speak in tongues, proclaiming God’s truth to someone who spoke that language, and then that believer, or another believer in the church, was to interpret what was spoken so that the entire assembly could understand what was said.

What, then, is praying in tongues, and how is it different than speaking in tongues? First Corinthians 14:13-17 indicates that praying in tongues is also to be interpreted. As a result, it seems that praying in tongues was offering a prayer to God. This prayer would minister to someone who spoke that language, but would also need to be interpreted so that the entire body could be edified.

This interpretation does not agree with those who view praying in tongues as a prayer language. This alternate understanding can be summarized as follows: praying in tongues is a personal prayer language between a believer and God (1 Corinthians 13:1) that a believer uses to edify himself (1 Corinthians 14:4). This interpretation is unbiblical for the following reasons: 1) How could praying in tongues be a private prayer language if it is to be interpreted (1 Corinthians 14:13-17)? 2) How could praying in tongues be for self-edification when Scripture says that the spiritual gifts are for the edification of the church, not the self (1 Corinthians 12:7). 3) How can praying in tongues be a private prayer language if the gift of tongues is a “sign to unbelievers” (1 Corinthians 14:22)? 4) The Bible makes it clear that not everyone possesses the gift of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:11, 28-30). How could tongues be a gift for self-edification if not every believer can possess it? Do we not all need to be edified?

Some understand praying in tongues to be a “secret code language” that prevents Satan and his demons from understanding our prayers and thereby gaining an advantage over us. This interpretation is unbiblical for the following reasons: 1) The New Testament consistently describes tongues as a human language. It is unlikely that Satan and his demons are unable to understand human languages. 2) The Bible records countless believers praying in their own language, out loud, with no concern of Satan intercepting the prayer. Even if Satan and/or his demons hear and understand the prayers we pray, they have absolutely no power to prevent God from answering the prayers according to His will. We know that God hears our prayers, and that fact makes it irrelevant whether Satan and his demons hear and understand our prayers.

What do we say, then, about the many Christians who have experienced praying in tongues and find it to be very personally edifying? First, we must base our faith and practice on Scripture, not experience. We must view our experiences in light of Scripture, not interpret Scripture in light of our experiences. Second, many of the cults and world religions also report occurrences of speaking in tongues/praying in tongues. Obviously the Holy Spirit is not gifting these unbelieving individuals. So, it seems that the demons are able to counterfeit the gift of speaking in tongues. This should cause us to compare even more carefully our experiences with Scripture. Third, studies have shown how speaking/praying in tongues can be a learned behavior. Through hearing and observing others speak in tongues, a person can learn the procedure, even subconsciously. This is the most likely explanation for the vast majority of instances of speaking/praying in tongues among Christians. Fourth, the feeling of “self-edification” is natural. The human body produces adrenaline and endorphins when it experiences something new, exciting, emotional, and/or disconnected from rational thought.

Praying in tongues is most definitely an issue on which Christians can respectfully and lovingly agree to disagree. Praying in tongues is not what determines salvation. Praying in tongues is not what separates a mature Christian from an immature Christian. Whether or not there is such a thing as praying in tongues as a personal prayer language is not a fundamental of the Christian faith. So, while we believe the biblical interpretation of praying in tongues leads away from the idea of a private prayer language for personal edification, we also recognize that many who practice such are our brothers and sisters in Christ and are worthy of our love and respect.



Related Topics:

What is the gift of speaking in tongues?

What is glossolalia?

Are the miraculous gifts of the Spirit for today?

What is the Pentecostal Church and what do Pentecostals believe?

What is the spiritual gift of interpreting tongues?

....I try hard to listen for the rustling of angels wings; and the singing of heavenly voices coming from around the throne of God, but as of yet, I have not heard these things. Maybe you hear them when you speak, but, I'm so sorry, I do not hear your words moving all heaven and earth...:saint:

The truth is your potpourri of hodgepodology would not pass muster in a junior high Bible class. :sleep:

So while I believe everyone has the right to their opinions, and the right to share their opinions, may I say, you've had your fifteen seconds of fame in attacking and judging me, and I would appreciate that you keep any further thoughts to yourself, or better yet, return to the fronts of the other wars you have undertaken on this board. You have spread yourself way to thin on the battle fronts, and if you continue to do this, your flank will be over run! :laugh:

 

[Matt22:37-39]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::

 

[righteousdude2]

I Like You.

A learned language is not a manifestation of the Holy Spirit! An unbeliever can learn a language!

Don't we have the Spirit within, doest he indwell us at the moment we believe in Jesus Christ?

You really get it.....and while others don't, that is neither their problems or ours. Like you, I thank God for the gift of His Spirit in ways some refuse to accept of understand. Now, that does not mean I am in any way superior or more advanced than those without the gifts I have, it just means that we are all gifted differently to serve the body in different ways.

I am quite sure the toes of the body have some feelings about the fingers when they see the fingers doing things they can't do, but, that does not mean the toes are less important. In fact, remove one or more of the toes, and the entire body goes into chaos and the fingers will be relegated to holding a cane in order to help the body limp along.

When will the body of Christ stop judging other parts, or envying other parts? This is the one reason the body is lame and ineffective, it continues to fight among itself and that makes it dysfunctional. And a dysfunctional body is not what God called the body to be. I weep when other parts of His body turn on itself like a flesh eating disease. Or worse yet, like an auto-immune disease. Such a shame. Such a tragedy!

 

[righteousdude2]

Who is John MacAthur?

JOHN MACARTHUR

Can anyone understand what you are saying?

The next verses in Chapter 14 are the crux of Paul’s chastising admonishments to the Corinthians. He is clearly not happy with the way that tongues are being used, and with this church rich with pagan practices, the use of tongues is just another misuse of the gifts that God has given them with. Paul admonishes them here:

Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church. 1 Corinthians 14:7-12

Paul again repeats the purpose of true tongues:

Tongues MUST be spoken with intelligible words
Must be understood by others
Must be with meaning
Must be a gift to build up the church

Pray and sing with the understanding and fruitfulness

Paul continues in Corinthians:

For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.
- 1 Corinthians 14:13-17

It’s unbelievable to me the number of Christians that read the preceding paragraph and think Paul is patting them on a back for “praying in the spirit” using an unknown tongue! Paul is one again, chastising the baby believers for their immature use of the gift of tongues. These things he declares from those verses:

Tongues are useless without interpretation
The mind is unfruitful with this type of tongues
Those who can’t understand what you are praying or singing about can’t even say “Amen”
Praying must be done with understanding
Singing must be done with understanding
When praying or singing “in the spirit” of bad tongues, the other is not edified

Stop acting like children!

Paul says in verses 18-19 how he speaks in tongues more than anyone, but in church he rather speak words of understanding. Now, can anyone think after carefully reading the preceding verses that Paul speaks unintelligently and without meaning? Which tongues is Paul speaking of? He wouldn’t turn around and speak the same type of tongues he just finished chastisng the baby Christians for doing, would he?

Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. In the Law it is written:
“Through men of strange tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me,” says the Lord.

Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!” 1 Corinthians 14:20-25

Paul verbally spanking the babies again when he tells them straight out STOP ACTING LIKE CHILDREN! It’s time for them to grow up and use the gifts that God has given them for the building up of the church, not for self-glorification.

You quote this guy like he is a god....there are some things in the supernatural world that are above the pay grade of the John MacArthur's of this world. And your pay grade is not even on the same page as most on this board. You are quick to quote others. but, you have no opinions based on your own understandings. Your responses are like talking to a live Wikipedia robot. Good answers, just disjointed and makes no sense!

It would be nice to meet the real Matt27, and not a bunch of other peoples thoughts and statements from their books, radio show transcripts, etc.

 

[awaken]

AWAKEN....Doubt it after 28 years of being saved...my first church for a few months in NY till I came back to Ca was a pentecostal church and God taught me right off the bat most of what they believed was wrong...he taught me things that I later found out were in the bible and they were trying to tell me otherwise.

Just because one has an EXPERIENCE doesn't make it right...guess you believe in being "slain in the spirit" too. and "laughing in the spirit" too and the prosperity movement.

If you do then your are way off, if you don't then why do you think those who believe in those things are wrong yet you are right.

Either our experiences MATCH up with scripture and are true or they do not

can't have it both ways.

I do not back my doctrine by other denominations or other peoples experiences! My doctrine I have proved over and over in scriptures!
Praying in the spirit/speaking to God/giving thanks is prayer!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Thomas does not hold to it. He is just using a phrase some others have used.

Yes, that's right.

 

[righteousdude2]

Some do....some don't!

I do not back my doctrine by other denominations or other peoples experiences! My doctrine I have proved over and over in scriptures!
Praying in the spirit/speaking to God/giving thanks is prayer!

You and I understand....others don't and probably never will...but that's okay, because we are all still one in Him.

It's just a shame that some, who don't, are willing to chastise/ostracize/mock/criticize/and ridicule those of us who do!

As of yet...I have not heard those who do [like me and you] putting down those who don't. We aren't even trying to get them to do as we do. YET, they have taken it upon themselves to mock us, and try to Biblically make us doubt the one thing we know within our spirit is of Him.

As long as I live, I'll never understand why what we have is such a threat to those who don't have it? We are not saying it makes them less then those that do have it....not are we saying they are under the influence of the devil [like they imply about us who do].

My question to them that don't do what we do is this: What is it that causes you to be so angry and upset over our gift? Why is it that you who don't, take it upon yourself to try to shame us or guilt trip us into seeing things your way?

I have NEVER once [since joining in 2007] tried to convert or influence any one on this baord with my gift. For me this gift is a matter of fact, and I see it as something that works for me, but, I do not have the same zeal as you to get you to change like you try to get those of us who do, to change.

Why is it that when tongues are mentioned, some board members become indignant, ugly and down right rude. So far I haven't mocked, ridiculed or insulted those who don't do what I do, but, the other side is all ruffled up like Lay's potato chips, and ready to take me to the mat just because I speak a language God gave.

Maybe someone can tell me why tongues riles some of you up to the point of calling us names, and telling us we are not going to heaven. This is so childish, and totally unnecessary.

WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?​

 

[awaken]

You and I understand....others don't and probably never will...but that's okay, because we are all still one in Him.

It's just a shame that some, who don't, are willing to chastise/ostracize/mock/criticize/and ridicule those of us who do!

As of yet...I have not heard those who do [like me and you] putting down those who don't. We aren't even trying to get them to do as we do. YET, they have taken it upon themselves to mock us, and try to Biblically make us doubt the one thing we know within our spirit is of Him.

As long as I live, I'll never understand why what we have is such a threat to those who don't have it? We are not saying it makes them less then those that do have it....not are we saying they are under the influence of the devil [like they imply about us who do].

My question to them that don't do what we do is this: What is it that causes you to be so angry and upset over our gift? Why is it that you who don't, take it upon yourself to try to shame us or guilt trip us into seeing things your way?

I have NEVER once [since joining in 2007] tried to convert or influence any one on this baord with my gift. For me this gift is a matter of fact, and I see it as something that works for me, but, I do not have the same zeal as you to get you to change like you try to get those of us who do, to change.

Why is it that when tongues are mentioned, some board members become indignant, ugly and down right rude. So far I haven't mocked, ridiculed or insulted those who don't do what I do, but, the other side is all ruffled up like Lay's potato chips, and ready to take me to the mat just because I speak a language God gave.

Maybe someone can tell me why tongues riles some of you up to the point of calling us names, and telling us we are not going to heaven. This is so childish, and totally unnecessary.

WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?​

I am on several forums...but this has to be the worst when it comes to the manifestations of the Holy Spirit!
Looks like most of the ones that believe in them have either left or just keep out of the discussions because of the personal attacks!
I am not offended easily....or I would have left a long time ago! I take breaks from time to time! Do a lot of praying in the spirit...then I return!:laugh:

 

[awaken]

So no one has the answer to my question!:smilewinkgrin:
HOW DOES THE HOLY SPIRIT PRAY FOR US WHEN WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO PRAY?
Well it is a shame...it would clear up a lot of confusion for you if you know the answer!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

You and I understand....others don't and probably never will...but that's okay, because we are all still one in Him.

It's just a shame that some, who don't, are willing to chastise/ostracize/mock/criticize/and ridicule those of us who do!

As of yet...I have not heard those who do [like me and you] putting down those who don't. We aren't even trying to get them to do as we do. YET, they have taken it upon themselves to mock us, and try to Biblically make us doubt the one thing we know within our spirit is of Him.

As long as I live, I'll never understand why what we have is such a threat to those who don't have it? We are not saying it makes them less then those that do have it....not are we saying they are under the influence of the devil [like they imply about us who do].

My question to them that don't do what we do is this: What is it that causes you to be so angry and upset over our gift? Why is it that you who don't, take it upon yourself to try to shame us or guilt trip us into seeing things your way?

I have NEVER once [since joining in 2007] tried to convert or influence any one on this baord with my gift. For me this gift is a matter of fact, and I see it as something that works for me, but, I do not have the same zeal as you to get you to change like you try to get those of us who do, to change.

Why is it that when tongues are mentioned, some board members become indignant, ugly and down right rude. So far I haven't mocked, ridiculed or insulted those who don't do what I do, but, the other side is all ruffled up like Lay's potato chips, and ready to take me to the mat just because I speak a language God gave.

Maybe someone can tell me why tongues riles some of you up to the point of calling us names, and telling us we are not going to heaven. This is so childish, and totally unnecessary.

WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?​

I don't recall that I have even addressed you about this issue. But then I don't recall you saying that those who don't believe as you do are in unbelief and deny the truth of scripture, as a certain other arrogant poster does with a spiritually superior complex.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

So no one has the answer to my question!:smilewinkgrin:
HOW DOES THE HOLY SPIRIT PRAY FOR US WHEN WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO PRAY?
Well it is a shame...it would clear up a lot of confusion for you if you know the answer!

I know the answer, but you do not, even though it has been given you by at least two people here, I being one of them. The Bible tells you, but that is not your source, but rather experience is your source, and you try to fit scripture to your false experience. Doesn't work that way.

 

[righteousdude2]

That is a good idea....

I am on several forums...but this has to be the worst when it comes to the manifestations of the Holy Spirit!
Looks like most of the ones that believe in them have either left or just keep out of the discussions because of the personal attacks!
I am not offended easily....or I would have left a long time ago! I take breaks from time to time! Do a lot of praying in the spirit...then I return!:laugh:

....I'll join you in praying, and let the Holy spirit be glorified....

I'm not offended either....just disgusted at the manner in which the church is always at the front of the line when it comes to casting stones on their own. Something is seriously wrong with that picture.

Again, I have never, and I have not observed you doing this either, tried to impose my beliefs on others. Yet this topic beings out the opposition every time.

I hesitated to post that comment in the early days of this thread, but said to myself, if I am embarrassed of the gifts He gives, what kind of witness is that? Notice to all who are offended with my gift. I never once said those who don't have this gift need to get it. That is just not right, nor is it the way of the Spirit.

You guys have some great gifts, that I am sure of. So do my brother an I, it just so happenes, that one gift we have is not accepted in some circles.

But like a friend once told me; the pendulum of change swings from the left to the right and back, and eventually the gifts of the spirit will make their bold re-entrance into the Baptist denomination, and the two of us will not be outsiders any longer. When that happens, there is no need to apologize, just applause! :laugh:

Well, it does say where two or more gather and pray, He is in their midst. I'll join you in prayers, and if tongues break out, so be it!

 

[Don]

So no one has the answer to my question!:smilewinkgrin:
HOW DOES THE HOLY SPIRIT PRAY FOR US WHEN WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO PRAY?
Well it is a shame...it would clear up a lot of confusion for you if you know the answer!

Well...tell us!

 

[awaken]

I know the answer, but you do not, even though it has been given you by at least two people here, I being one of them. The Bible tells you, but that is not your source, but rather experience is your source, and you try to fit scripture to your false experience. Doesn't work that way.

Not to that question! You have yet to answer it! But I understand!

 

[awaken]

Well...tell us!

My point is not tongues!
My point is that most here say that it is not tongues, yet it says the spirit prays, correct?
Most argue that why should we pray in tongues if we do not know what we are saying, correct?
Another will debate saying.. why does the Spirit pray to the Father, both being the Godhead in praying in the spirit?

So I would like to know how most of you reconcile the two!