Still waiting on a answer....

They make up their own meanings as well GordonSlocum. For instance: Did Bush get elected because he elected himself? Why has the meaning of election changed into something alien?

The US is a democracy and Americans understand what the word 'election' means, why do they tried to kid us that the word doesn't mean what it means?

The Jw's are like that. Trying to kid us with false meanings when the obvious would bite you if it was a dog. But they pick up the ones that want what they offer as free will does.

Pelagius James. Is that two or three?

john.

 

Does Darwin have any relevance to this issue? Who is obsessed with Calvin on this board? Why don't you stick with Scripture and drop this genetic argument?

 

Why is 1900 the magic number? Was "classic" Holy Spirit better than modern day Holy Spirit?

 

Maybe we're living in the time of apostasy, when men are falling away from the true faith, as foretold in scripture. Maybe not, but that's a possible reason for the cutoff point.

 

Why did Bush Get Elected? He first made a decision to present Himself for the office. Second, enough people voted for Him. Third, He was ask if He would accept the nomination at the convention. Fourth, Election is not just based upon arbitrary choice. People are elected on the BASIS of something all the time. Christians are Elected on the basis of their faith in Christ.

The problem with Calvinistic thinking is this: It is wooden literal, not normal literal.

Gordon

 

I started to respond but decided that ... there is no point in it. No one is listening anyway.

 

Dead wrong.

Ephesians 2:8-9 says:


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; The Ephesian believers, who actually existed unless you want to deny, like that lunatic president of Iran that Jews who were slaughtered by Hitler did not exist, were as dead in sins and trespasses as dead can be, no feeling of remorse, no feeling of guilt, not knowing they were in that condition;

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
(A continuation of verse one, showing how these children of God in times past walked in the same trespasses and sins according to the ways of this world, under the influence of Satan, the same influence that even at this present time is at work in the ungodly;}


[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires F4 of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. (The ungodly among whom the Ephesians lived and cavorted with, satisfying the mind and the flesh, the ungodly who by nature were children of wrath [which the Ephesians were not], like everyone else who are not of God)
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
(But God, because of the great love which He had for the Ephesians)

[/FONT]2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

(Even when the Ephesians [and those whom He loved], were dead in sins, uncaring, unmindful, enoying fleshly and spiritual sins, unrepentant, have (not will, not shall, but have) regenerated them, brought them back to life, caused them to be born again, and, oh, by the way, you are saved by grace)

To be elected on the basis of your faith in Christ is to be elected by merit, and makes God a respecter of persons.
To be able to exercise faith in Christ is the result of being "born from above", enlightened by the light, as you yourself said in your other post, now closed, and to be born from above is to be born by the will of God, again, as you yourself said in your other post.

If one is elected on the basis of his faith in Christ, it follows therefore, according to your thinking, that God causes you to be born again, and then elects you because now you have faith in Christ as a result of your being born again.

Mark that I am not putting words in your mouth, or misinterpreting your doctrine.
I have simply put into thought and sentence what you have said in your own posts.

On the other hand Paul has been very consistent with his theology. God foreknew, predestinated, called, justified and then glorified, as he wrote to the Romans. And now he writes in the beginning of his letter to the Ephesians:

Please don't apply your freewheeling free willing logic to these verses by saying that God foresaw the faith of individuals and based on that foreseen faith elected them in Christ.

Because that makes God a respecter of persons, respecting persons on the basis of their faith, when the Bible clearly says "not by works of righteousnesses which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us" (Titus 3:5), a faith which He himself gifted them with (Ephesians 2:8-9).

So, now, that thickens your broth, doesn't it ?


First He sends the Light to enlighten all men.
Then, He causes the light to really light up some, but not all.
Then, He causes this really lit up ones to be born again.
Then, He gives them the gift of faith.
Then, He elects them according to the gift which He gave them, after He Himself caused their rebirth.

Now, who has a puppet master God ?

 

I'll just keep waiting until you supply them, you're doing a great job!

I see you are into history pretty heavy. After this can you do the 1800's?

 

I thought I'd let you finish your list before I informed you again of what I said originally that you had a problem with...

I don't personally know any non cal theologians over the age of 107...

 

"Please make a list of the top 50 theologians before the year 1900 that held to freewill."

I didn't see that anywhere in your OP...your "first post". For some reason you decided you wanted to limit your little list before 1900. At any rate, my first post came before your first post.
Replying to my...
"Most theologians I know believe the truth that Romans 9-11 is dealing with the Jews, not individual salvation."
with...
"Please make a list of the top 50 theologians before the year 1900 that held to freewill."
really makes no sense.

 

Jarthur001, I don't know if your OP was answered and I'm not really getting into the thread, but I did notice 95 posts to it. That should either somewhat answer the question, or raise a whole bunch of new ones! :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

If I quote you perhaps I will not get accused by the accuser. "Dead wrong"

Can't say anymore I was told there are - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - .

 

Even the most cursory review of history will quickly show that the theological underpinnings of the modern church has followed the current laid down by social movements - mainly, democracy and populism - which has led to the embracing of human determinism as the sovereign lord of today. The most ghastly thought to the modern/post-modern man is a personal, omnipotent, sovereign deity that is neither electible nor impeachable. We Christians call Him God.

Of course, that's history as a natural observation. We know God is in control of history, and if this is a day of a great apostasy (and I agree that it is), God has a glorious purpose in it.