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Street Preaching: Gods primary way of reaching the lost

SolaSaint

Well-Known Member
Hey if God is impressing upon you to preach in the streets, then by all means do so, but it isn't the only way or the way we all need to do it. Jesus preached from a boat, should you also go buy a bass boat and head out for the open waters. Just sayin...

This is like that David Platt guy who tries to make everyone guilty if they aren't in a foreign country on a mission trip. I love Apologetics but this doesn't mean I should demand everyone else get on board with me.

If I'm missing your point, I apologize.
 

Winman

Active Member
Actually Total depravity is a Biblical doctrine. Lets first turn to Romans 3:10-18 and The passage clearly teaches that no one seeks after God for they all seek their own ways and not of God.

Next turn to Matt 16:17 and Jesus teaches that it was God that revealed to Peter the fact that Jesus is the Christ. Next turn to John 10 and Jesus speaks about his elect and they are the ones that hear his voice. Jesus did not say that the non elect hear him, He clearly spoke of His sheep whom are the elect. Next turn to John 6:65 and the text says that no on can come to the father unless the father has enabled him (NIV). Likewise Mt 11:27 says that the son chooses to reveal himself to some and that some is the elect. For the icing on the cake turn to Jonah 2:9 and the text reads "Salvation comes from the Lord" (NIV). Therefore it seems obvious that the Holy Spirit chooses to reveal himself to some and those that are of the elect. Regarding the passages that you mentioned Jesus was preaching for the elect to respond to salvation for He knew that not everyone would do so. Likewise I try to follow His example when I preach for I know that only the elect will respond to the call to salvation whom God has prepared.

I can understand your frustrations about this doctrine for I once thought as you did. I know its a hard one to understand.

It's not difficult to understand at all, it is just wrong.

If I were to say that none of my neighbors ever goes to church, no, not one, would you understand that to mean they are unable to go to church? NO, and no reasonable person would ever assume that, yet that is exactly what you are doing with the scripture in Romans 3. The fact that no one seeks God does not mean they are unable to seek God, you are reading Total Inability into the text when it is not there.

Mat 16:17 certainly does not teach inability, how do you get the doctrine of inability out of this verse? Jesus simply says that the Father had revealed to Peter that Jesus was the Christ. Peter was ABLE to learn from the Father, so if anything, this verse teaches ability, not inability.

Jhn 6:65 does not say no man can come unless God "enables" him as you say.

Jhn 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Jesus said no man can come to Jesus unless it were "given" unto him of my Father. What is he talking about? What was given by the Father? Well, Jesus had just spoken of his words, this is what is given.

Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

It is the word of God that is given to men, but men must believe, listen and learn from God's word before they will ever come to Jesus. This is what Jesus had taught in verse 45;

Jhn 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Every man that has heard and learned from the Father comes to Jesus. Those who refuse to hear and learn will not come to Jesus.

Mat 11:27 is not teaching that Jesus reveals the Father to only some men, read the following verses:

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Yes, in verse 27 Jesus says no man knows the Father except those he has revealed the Father to, but who does this apply to? Read the very next verse, Jesus says, Come unto me, ALL YE that labour and are heavy laden. So the offer is to ANYONE. He offers to give everyone rest, and in verse 29 he tells these persons to "learn" from him, and they shall find rest. Jesus is certainly not limiting his offer to only a few persons here, but any man who will come to him. It certainly is not teaching inability.

And Jonah 2:9 certainly does not teach inability, it just states that Salvation is of the LORD. How does that teach inability?

So, your view is not difficult to understand, it is just wrong. None of these scriptures is teaching inability or Limited Atonement, you are reading that into scripture.

When you preach the gospel, it applies to all men. You should be glad to know that. You don't have to hope some "elect" person comes along, any man that hears you can believe if he chooses to do so. And if he listens and hears, he can come to Jesus, it was given to him by the Father through you.
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Hey if God is impressing upon you to preach in the streets, then by all means do so, but it isn't the only way or the way we all need to do it. Jesus preached from a boat, should you also go buy a bass boat and head out for the open waters. Just sayin...

This is like that David Platt guy who tries to make everyone guilty if they aren't in a foreign country on a mission trip. I love Apologetics but this doesn't mean I should demand everyone else get on board with me.

If I'm missing your point, I apologize.

Jesus preached in the open air. I made a mistake in creating this thread as I should have said "Open Air Preaching: One of the most effective ways God uses to reach the Lost."

Also whats your problem with David Platt? I do not recall him indicating in the book Radical that if we are not overseas then we are in disobedience.
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It's not difficult to understand at all, it is just wrong.

When you preach the gospel, it applies to all men. You should be glad to know that. You don't have to hope some "elect" person comes along, any man that hears you can believe if he chooses to do so. And if he listens and hears, he can come to Jesus, it was given to him by the Father through you.

You are right and wrong. It is true that when I preach the call is to everyone, however thats what Erickson would say the "general call" but we know better that only the elect will respond to the call and that is what Erickson would call the "special call" or Wayne Grudem the "Effective call." Refer to this article.

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/effective.html

If you watch this sermon you will see that I spoke like you in 2009. Can you find the quote in my sermon of which you can identify? I speak about FREE WILL at one point in the message. After I preached that a reformed person listened and critiqued it based on that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5UHT2t3uYw

However in later days I have come to a better understanding of these doctrines and you can hear that here. There are those as I mention in my sermon that have responded but are not of the elect and so they are false converts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MKoI4-6LNI
 
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Winman

Active Member
You are right and wrong. It is true that when I preach the call is to everyone, however thats what Erickson would say the "general call" but we know better that only the elect will respond to the call and that is what Erickson would call the "special call" or Wayne Grudem the "Effective call." Refer to this article.

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/effective.html

Is this where you get your theology? From a Reformed website? You need to read the Bible. Show me anywhere where the Bible mentions a general call that goes out to all people, and an effectual call that goes out only to the elect. You can't do it, because the Bible never teaches such a thing anywhere.

If you watch this sermon you will see that I spoke like you in 2009. Can you find the quote in my sermon of which you can identify? I speak about FREE WILL at one point in the message. After I preached that a reformed person listened and critiqued it based on that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5UHT2t3uYw

I don't need to watch an old sermon, the Bible never teaches that some folks get a general call while others get an effectual call. That is a pure man-made fiction.

However in later days I have come to a better understanding of these doctrines and you can hear that here. There are those as I mention in my sermon that have responded but are not of the elect and so they are false converts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MKoI4-6LNI

No, you've listened to men instead of studying the scriptures and allowed yourself to be led into false doctrine.

Show me from scripture that says there is a general call for some and an effectual call for others.
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Is this where you get your theology? From a Reformed website? You need to read the Bible. Show me anywhere where the Bible mentions a general call that goes out to all people, and an effectual call that goes out only to the elect. You can't do it, because the Bible never teaches such a thing anywhere.



I don't need to watch an old sermon, the Bible never teaches that some folks get a general call while others get an effectual call. That is a pure man-made fiction.



No, you've listened to men instead of studying the scriptures and allowed yourself to be led into false doctrine.

Show me from scripture that says there is a general call for some and an effectual call for others.

Winman,

What you have basically said in the post above is that you know everything and are beyond correction. You did not read the article that I posted which contains lots of scriptures, nor did you listen to the sermons as they also contain lots of scriptures. You are in denial and perhaps fear of opposing views. You could have proven me wrong by refuting what I preached in the sermons but you did not do this which tells me you cannot. Therefore it will be nearly impossible to dialogue with you.
 

Winman

Active Member
Winman,

What you have basically said in the post above is that you know everything and are beyond correction. You did not read the article that I posted which contains lots of scriptures, nor did you listen to the sermons as they also contain lots of scriptures. You are in denial and perhaps fear of opposing views. You could have proven me wrong by refuting what I preached in the sermons but you did not do this which tells me you cannot. Therefore it will be nearly impossible to dialogue with you.

I don't want to read an article written at Monergism dot com. I want you to personally show me scripture that says there is a general call that goes out to all men. This general call is powerless to regenerate any man. I then want you to show me where the scriptures say there is a powerful effectual call that irresistibly regenerates those men whom God has elected to save.

Show me where the scriptures say this. I know all about this stuff from Reformed teachers, but I want you to show me where this is in the scriptures.
 
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SolaSaint

Well-Known Member
""Also whats your problem with David Platt? I do not recall him indicating in the book Radical that if we are not overseas then we are in disobedience.""

I don't think we agree on the book Radical. IMO he most definitely puts a guilt trip on anyone who doesn't do as he has done.
 

Winman

Active Member
evangelist6589 said:
You could have proven me wrong by refuting what I preached in the sermons but you did not do this which tells me you cannot.

This is pure nonsense, I just went through every scripture you mentioned earlier and showed how not one of them was teaching inability as you claim. See post #22.

I not only can refute you, I did.
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
""Also whats your problem with David Platt? I do not recall him indicating in the book Radical that if we are not overseas then we are in disobedience.""

I don't think we agree on the book Radical. IMO he most definitely puts a guilt trip on anyone who doesn't do as he has done.

I do not care for him either. In fact I believe he is part of the cause of division in the convention.
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
""Also whats your problem with David Platt? I do not recall him indicating in the book Radical that if we are not overseas then we are in disobedience.""

I don't think we agree on the book Radical. IMO he most definitely puts a guilt trip on anyone who doesn't do as he has done.

You need to re-read the book. This is what I said of the book.

This has to be the best and most influential book I have read up to date in the year 2012. For a while, I was a critic of the book, but having never read it my objections were not rooted in facts. Once I finally gave the book a read, I fell in love with it. The book is easy to understand, & is filled with application and powerful illustrations. Radical challenges so much of the American Dream and the American lifestyle that all of us take for granted. Many of us want to pursue the American dream, which is to find your dream job, your dream spouse, your dream house, your dream car, and your dream salary. Many whom have lots of money do not give one rat about the needy in their neighborhood. They do not give one rat about the poor college students, and those in their congregation whom have made poor financial decisions in the past and have a bit of debt as a result. I wish that more Christians would live the Radical Christian faith this book so well illustrates, because then there would not be as many poor college students, and people struggling to pay off student loans. There are plenty of wealthy Christians that do not care about anyone but themselves, and sure could use the book Radical. There are many whom are over burdened with debt from former poor financial decisions and wish they could get out of debt so they can donate more to the Lord, but the economy is bad and finding that debt killing job has been difficult for many.

So much more could be said about the book. Overall a great read! As a result of reading the book, I have donated money to Compassion International, & The Bible League. Prior to reading the book I sometimes donated just to get a book or some other gift in return, while completely ignoring the needs and cries of the hurting & needy. I sure wish that my church would use this book, but all attempts to persuade them have failed.... You know its amazing how God works. A few minutes after I posted this review I got a email from my SS teacher whom says he has Radical on his to read list, and that others in the church have encouraged him to read it as well.
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
This is pure nonsense, I just went through every scripture you mentioned earlier and showed how not one of them was teaching inability as you claim. See post #22.

I not only can refute you, I did.

Then prove it. Go through my sermon on true and false converts and do it.
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I do not care for him either. In fact I believe he is part of the cause of division in the convention.

Explain. There are lots of people you do not care for. About 50% of your posts are an attack on me or someone else. Who do you care about? Who cuts the mustard in your book?
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I don't want to read an article written at Monergism dot com. I want you to personally show me scripture that says there is a general call that goes out to all men. This general call is powerless to regenerate any man. I then want you to show me where the scriptures say there is a powerful effectual call that irresistibly regenerates those men whom God has elected to save.

Show me where the scriptures say this. I know all about this stuff from Reformed teachers, but I want you to show me where this is in the scriptures.

You are not open to sound reasoning as nothing can convince you. When I thought as you did I was closed as well and wanted to refute all reformed.
 

Winman

Active Member
Then prove it. Go through my sermon on true and false converts and do it.

Refute what? I listened to both sermons, you did not prove Total Inability in either sermon. How can I refute nothing?

Are there false believers? Sure, nobody denies that, even Arminians do not deny that. What is there to refute? That has nothing to do with Total Inability.

Neither sermon addressed the general and effectual calls you claim exist.

Now, I have listened to both sermons, and you did not prove Total Inability or a General and Effectual Call in either sermon. You did not even speak about these subjects, so there is nothing for me to refute.

Now you show me where the scripture says God calls people with a powerless general call, but he calls the elect with a powerful irresistible effectual call. Show me anywhere in scripture that says this.

I did what you asked, now you do what I asked.
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Refute what? I listened to both sermons, you did not prove Total Inability in either sermon. How can I refute nothing?

Are there false believers? Sure, nobody denies that, even Arminians do not deny that. What is there to refute? That has nothing to do with Total Inability.

Neither sermon addressed the general and effectual calls you claim exist.

Now, I have listened to both sermons, and you did not prove Total Inability or a General and Effectual Call in either sermon. You did not even speak about these subjects, so there is nothing for me to refute.

Now you show me where the scripture says God calls people with a powerless general call, but he calls the elect with a powerful irresistible effectual call. Show me anywhere in scripture that says this.

I did what you asked, now you do what I asked.


Oops. I sent the wrong sermons. My mistake.
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I'm not listening to any more. You should answer my request now, I listened to your sermons, it is not my fault you picked the wrong ones.

Since I was an Arminian for a long time I take it that I have no sermons or writings on the doctrine that I could find. However I did take a note of one doctrine of Calvinism that I disagree with.

UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
God chose the elect solely on the basis of His free grace, not anything in them. He has a special love for the elect. God left the rest to be damned for their sins.

I much rather believe in what Arminians teach called

CONDITIONAL ELECTION
God chose the elect on the basis of their foreseen faith. He loves all men equally. God passed over no one, but gives everyone an equal chance to be saved.

That said I am a mix between Reformed and a Arminian. Yes this is OT and I have not answered your questions and for good reason because no matter what I say you will not be convinced. But if you do have a open mind I say check out this article.

http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/90-276
 

Winman

Active Member
Since I was an Arminian for a long time I take it that I have no sermons or writings on the doctrine that I could find. However I did take a note of one doctrine of Calvinism that I disagree with.



I much rather believe in what Arminians teach called



That said I am a mix between Reformed and a Arminian. Yes this is OT and I have not answered your questions and for good reason because no matter what I say you will not be convinced. But if you do have a open mind I say check out this article.

http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/90-276

I hate to break this to ya fella, but if you believe in Conditional Election then you are NOT a Calvinist at all! You are a full fledged non-Cal or Arminian!

Believing in Conditional Election is almost blasphemy to a Calvinist.
 
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