Submission is...do you agree?

[Pastor Larry]

Wrong again, theology breath.

What in the world does that mean?

The fact is that love and respect are there. It is either for the Lord, who gave it to us in the first place, or for the boss, master, spouse, etc as an individual. If both are absent, there is no submission or basis for submission.

I am glad you agree with me. You earlier sounded like you disagreed. I have said all along that we do not have to love and respect authority to submit to them. We do it for God's sake. But if you read the thread, that didn't seem to be the topic of the conversation.

In any event, I welcome your agreement with what I have stated all along.

The point is simple: I don't have to experience love or respect from my superiors and I don't have to love or respect them. For God's sake, and the sake of the gospel, I submit to them anyway.

Amy G is exactly right, and she references a passage I already mentioned.

 

[HankD]

All great verses, but none of which tell me that I have to love and respect someone in authority before submitting to them.

True but in an ideal world our obedience and submission to God should flow out of our love for Him.

He is also the Prime Mover (of course).

1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.​

In my 1st post I used the phrase "authority mingled with love" since (perhaps mistakenly) my notion was that we were speaking about a spritual situation.​

When my children were growing up and living at home, they had exactly that situation with their mother and I. They loved and respected us (and even had some fear of chastisement for a challenge to our authority.​

I'm not really sure at this point what this debate is about since the Scripture declares "God is love"​

1 John 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.​

In this verse we have a "commandment" which directly implies authority.
So the two are mingled together as I see it.​

As for the governmental authority:​

Titus 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work.​

1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme.
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.​

Late in life I was convicted of breaking the speed limit (5-10 miles/hr over the limit). This verse in 2 Peter 2:13 is what made the difference "for the Lord's sake".​

Not that I am anywhere near being perfected but everything we do should be as unto the Lord.

But yes, if there is no love, we still have to submit to authority (or suffer the consequence).​

HankD​

 

[saturneptune]

What in the world does that mean?

I am glad you agree with me. You earlier sounded like you disagreed. I have said all along that we do not have to love and respect authority to submit to them. We do it for God's sake. But if you read the thread, that didn't seem to be the topic of the conversation.

In any event, I welcome your agreement with what I have stated all along.

The point is simple: I don't have to experience love or respect from my superiors and I don't have to love or respect them. For God's sake, and the sake of the gospel, I submit to them anyway.

Amy G is exactly right, and she references a passage I already mentioned.

OK, I am going to make this as simple as possible. Love and respect are there, either for God or the other party. You said several times it was possible for them to be absent.

Tell you what, get a person who does not know the Lord, take away love and respect for a boss, a spouse, or any other authority institution, and see how much submission there is.

 

[MB]

Submission to Jesus Christ is giving up the rebellion. It's accepting the authority of Christ. It's accepting His authority to make decisions on your behalf. It's accepting His corrections of your behavior with out protest.
All because you believe in and Love Him. Submission for me was having the greatest treasure there could ever be. Jesus Christ
MB

 

[Pastor Larry]

Love and respect are there, either for God or the other party. You said several times it was possible for them to be absent.

You need to go back and read closer. I said that it doesn't matter whether we love and respect authority, we still have to submit. We were not talking about submitting to others because we love and respect God. You are trying to change the conversation midstream here. I said from the beginning that we submit to authority because of God and the gospel, not because of the authority.

Please take the time to go back and read my statements in context. You will see that that is what I said.

Tell you what, get a person who does not know the Lord, take away love and respect for a boss, a spouse, or any other authority institution, and see how much submission there is.

A lot. I see it all the time. Perhaps you just don't get out much. Most unbeleivers have no love or respect for a judge, but they will submit to the judge's ruling. But that's not really the issue.

The fact is that the Bible says our submission to authority is not based on the inherent goodness of the authority, but on the authority of God.

 

[blackbird]

Do you agree with this comment:

Submission is not about authority and it is not about obedience; it is all about relationships of love and rewspect.

I disagree

Submission is all about obedience to the written word of God which is better than sacrifice--------"Obedience is better than sacrifice", says Preacher Samuel to King Saul