Submissiveness to the unsaved husband

[Joe]

In reading through superwoman's threads, a clear understanding of what being submissive is regarding the role of a Christian wife doesn't seem clear. MK & gb seem to have a good grasp.

In one or more of those threads, it appears the unsaved husband is being elevated to God or even further. So much so that she is expected to sin along with her husband against their Lord? Is she to enable him to sin? Should she break the Lords commands to obey him? Is breaking the Lords commands being submissive?

I believe the Christian wife is to obide by the Lord's commands even when her husband will not.

Such as if a man requests his wife's credit card to purchase a 40 thousand dollar car. The wife is called to be a good steward, and it is HER name which is on the credit card. She has just loaned him 40, 000.00 to enable him to sin.

Let's say a man is physically abusing his son & his wife. Is harboring a child abuser in the home the right thing to do for a wife? Who comes first, the Lord's commands or the husbands secular demands?

We know physical abuse is against the Law. We know child abuse is against the law. No child should ever be forced to physically defend himself against his Father. Pastors are mandatory reporters of abuse, so we must follow the law. Just in case, I will remind us it's also a BB rule here that we not promote anything illegal.

Or another example. Let's say the unsaved husband took the car, got drunk and crashed it alongside a highway. Is she obligated to now get him out of jail? What if it's his third time? What if there is only one car for the wife to get to work, should she offer the keys to her car (in her name) to her unemployed husband then have no way to get to work?

These are just some examples....

 

[preachinjesus]

Anytime a woman is being beaten by a man her first priority is to get herself, and her child(ren) out of that situation as fast as possible.

She can attempt reconciliation through appropriate, monitored guidance from a certified Christian counselor. If those efforts are fruitless and/or there is no way he would consider reconciling with her or God than her final option is divorce.

A saved wife can, and should endure a relationship with her unbelieving spouse for a significant amount of time. (This is Scriptural) But when violence enters the scene there is no place for her in that home until reconciliation takes place.

 

[Joe]

The verses in 1Peter appear to sum it up. It reads wives are to submit to their unsaved husband yet still remain within God's will in order to win the unbeleiving spouse to the lord thru the wife's conduct. To sin with him would not be a good example.
It also states the importance of prayer

1 Peter 3:1-17NKJV (Bible Gateway)

1 Peter 3
Submission to Husbands
1 Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear. 3 Do not let your adornment be merely outward—arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel— 4 rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God. 5 For in this manner, in former times, the holy women who trusted in God also adorned themselves, being submissive to their own husbands, 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, whose daughters you are if you do good and are not afraid with any terror.7 Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered.8 Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous;[a] 9 not returning evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary blessing, knowing that you were called to this, that you may inherit a blessing.
10 For He who would love life
And see good days,
Let him refrain his tongue from evil,
And his lips from speaking deceit.
Let him turn away from evil and do good;
Let him seek peace and pursue it.
12 For the eyes of the LORD are on the righteous,
And His ears are open to their prayers;
But the face of the LORD is against those who do evil.”

13 And who is he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good? 14 But even if you should suffer for righteousness’ sake, you are blessed. “And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.”[c] 15 But sanctify the Lord God[d] in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; 16 having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed. 17 For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

 

[Sopranette]

Very interesting thread. I'd like to read more. :thumbsup:

love,

Sopranette

 

[Brother Shane]

If those efforts are fruitless and/or there is no way he would consider reconciling with her or God than her final option is divorce.

Scripture please?!

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Scripture please?!

This is like asking for scripture to justify using a telephone. Not everything is covered by the Bible. No woman should stay married to an abusive man.

 

[Sopranette]

This is like asking for scripture to justify using a telephone. Not everything is covered by the Bible. No woman should stay married to an abusive man.

But what about being married to a non abusive, but still unsaved man? I know we are not to be unequally yoked, but what if the wife is saved before her husband is?

love,

Sopranette

 

[Brother Shane]

This is like asking for scripture to justify using a telephone. Not everything is covered by the Bible. No woman should stay married to an abusive man.

Maybe drinking coffee and using a telephone is not covered in the Bible , but I'll guarantee you Jesus condemning divorce in every possible way is in the Bible. Go read Mark 10:2-12 and see what our Saviour had to say about it.

 

[Brother Shane]

But what about being married to a non abusive, but still unsaved man? I know we are not to be unequally yoked, but what if the wife is saved before her husband is?

love,

Sopranette

You're right -- the (saved) wife is not to be unequally yoked with an unbeliever (and likewise), but if she was an unbeliever when she married her unbelieving husband and she was saved before him, then, nothing is wrong with that. Remember what the Bible says (1 Corinthians 7:16) about one being saved and one not? We never know if we can save them or not.

Abusive or not -- you have no right -- NONE WHATSOEVER -- to divorce.

 

[superwoman8977]

Okay and heres what I was taught about marriage, actually to do the opposite of my parents marriage but then I guess thats wrong too so my next thought is that I will just stay away from marriage altogether because its too painful and a joke. When you are a Christian and he is not he is still the head of the household. You still need to listen to him, obey him what made things even worse is that my ex husband is/was a drill sgt in the army so basically we were treated like his troops. I never told my ex husband I wasnt going to do something when he asked whether I liked it or not I did it. Just like with the credit cards and the new car and everything I did it, was it wrong no at the time I actually didnt know he didnt pay the payments and I didnt know I was going to end up screwed. It all came out in the wash when the repo man knocked on my door and took the truck away first and then the car and then I didnt know till he had moved out that none of the credit cards had been paid off because I had been told they were. Ignorance is definitely not bliss and had I known things were like they were I definitely would not have allowed them to get as bad as they did. I pay my bills on time, and if I cant pay the whole bill at once then I make payments on the payment due. My parents have issues with being over their head on the credit thing and I vowed that wouldnt happen to me but well it has did I want it? Nope? But it was the hand that was dealt to me. I guess the silver lining in all of this is that now I have a chance to pay off the debt and have a new life and a new person to share my life with, I will never allow myself to be put back into that box again

 

[annsni]

I have lots of thoughts on this but need to run out. I'm marking this to answer later.

 

[nodak]

Jesus never said divorce can never happen, but in fact did mention certain allowable conditions.

We are told to stay married to an unbeliever if they are "content to dwell" with us.

That said, beating up on people or trying to force them to sin is not "dwelling" even if you share the same address.

You submit to your husband "as unto the Lord." Our Lord does not tell us to sin, so we do not submit when it makes us OR OUR HUSBAND sin.

Staying with a beater enables him to sin. Leaving calls him to repentance. No brainer.

 

[Brother Shane]

Jesus never said divorce can never happen, but in fact did mention certain allowable conditions.

This is not found in the Bible, ma'am.

 

[Beth]

Advice

But what about being married to a non abusive, but still unsaved man? I know we are not to be unequally yoked, but what if the wife is saved before her husband is?

love,

Sopranette

An old time teacher put it this way...the saved wife needs to be a walking gospel tract! A HUGE responsibility, but how rewarding when he comes to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

 

[Sopranette]

An old time teacher put it this way...the saved wife needs to be a walking gospel tract! A HUGE responsibility, but how rewarding when he comes to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Thank you, Beth. I'm not the greatest example of a Christian, but I DO try. When a person becomes born again, it's like all eyes are on you looking for that one flaw, the one time you slip up. Then it's, "I TOLD you so!".

love,

Sopranette

 

[pinoybaptist]

Jesus never said divorce can never happen, but in fact did mention certain allowable conditions.

There are no certain allowable conditions. Married is married for life. Only death breaks that vow. If Jesus had allowed divorce for fleshly adultery, we can be sure none of us will ever get to heaven, because we still sin, and that is spiritual adultery, and as the husband he can divorce us.

We are told to stay married to an unbeliever if they are "content to dwell" with us.

True, and if the unbeliever departs Paul never said the abandoned spouse can remarry.

That said, beating up on people or trying to force them to sin is not "dwelling" even if you share the same address.

correct.

You submit to your husband "as unto the Lord." Our Lord does not tell us to sin, so we do not submit when it makes us OR OUR HUSBAND sin.

True again, but remember that "unto the Lord" can encompass a lot of things. We have a job where the boss is absolutely bossy as bosses can be, and you find yourself being resentfuly, you keep on and work as "unto the Lord".

Staying with a beater enables him to sin.

Circumstances in a Christian's life can be used to glorify God. The faithfulness of Christ to us despite our spiritual adulteries or sins is the same as us being beating husbands, yet Christ never abandons us.

Leaving calls him to repentance.

The believer leaving the unbelieving spouse is not the word of Scripture.

no brainer.

And it's a no-brainer that if my son is constantly bullied at school, I should get him to a karate school, and tell him to beat the daylights out of the bully. That should make the bully repent.

And it's a no-brainer if I get pushed around by a co-worker. Push back, until he says he's sorry.

 

[LadyEagle]

What happened to turn the other cheek?

 

[preachinjesus]

Just a couple of thoughts here, not much more than that...

* If a woman is in a relationship with an unsaved husband (or vice versa) and there is no abuse then she should certainly remain in that relationship, exercise the grace of God, and demonstrate Christ to her/his spouse.

* Brother Shane, you seem very angry. Why is that?

* Abuse, specifically physical abuse, should not be tolerated at all. Anyone who has been on the receiving end of prolong physical and emotional abuse would tell you it isn't worth it. We in the Church should be the first to offer a safe place for women in these situations to go. When I read stuff like this:

What happened to turn the other cheek?

I realize how far we have to go in the Church to change attitudes and thoughts. Why would anyone want to encourage a woman to stay in an abusive relationship with a combative spouse? The reality in too many homes in America (often too many "Christian" homes) is both cheeks are bloodied and bruised from abuse. We have an obligation to help women in need.

 

[annsni]

There are no certain allowable conditions. Married is married for life. Only death breaks that vow. If Jesus had allowed divorce for fleshly adultery, we can be sure none of us will ever get to heaven, because we still sin, and that is spiritual adultery, and as the husband he can divorce us.

Jesus did allow divorce for adultery - it's too bad some can't read the clear Scripture.

However, what has not been addressed in any of these threads is that adultery does not HAVE to result in divorce. I know of marriages that have stayed together and healed because of a repentant heart on the part of the husband and a LOT of work on the part of both husband and wife. Hosea is a clear illustration of this AND an illustration of how God continually forgave and took back adulterous Israel.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Jesus did allow divorce for adultery - it's too bad some can't read the clear Scripture.

I can read Scripture, thank you. And research as well on Jewish traditions on engagements and marriages. Jesus seldom spoke on important subjects outside of the context of Jewish life. Were Joseph and Mary married, or were they bethrothed to each other ? Check it out.
Is the church and Christ married now ? Or is it a bethrothal stage. Go figure.

If you're divorced, I'm sorry that you are, and I am equally sorry for those who go through divorces. If you all think it's okay, then go and have it your way. Have fun.

However, what has not been addressed in any of these threads is that adultery does not HAVE to result in divorce. I know of marriages that have stayed together and healed because of a repentant heart on the part of the husband and a LOT of work on the part of both husband and wife.

Agree.

Hosea is a clear illustration of this AND an illustration of how God continually forgave and took back adulterous Israel.

If you study the Book closely, you will note that God did not divorce Judah, only the Northern part, and the two, Israel and Judah are one people, therefore one nation. And in that context, this was a temporary separation, if you will, not an absolute divorce.