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Submissiveness

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Fishnbread

New Member
You didn't edit it? I Am Blessed 16. Im sorry I thought you did. the fault must be mine please forgive me I must have mis read read it.

I don't mean to be picky but next time I ask someone a personal question could you please let that person answer it first?
 
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Johnv

New Member
Eph 5:23 is not referring to a spouse obeying another. Not at all. The CONTEXT of the whole chapter is referring to love and sacrifice of each other. Wives are called to submit to their husbands AS TO THE LORD (note that NT Christians are in a relationship with the Lord, not a dictatorship). Also note that the chapter says that the husband is the head ONLY in the manner as Christ is the head. Christ's headship is not one of authoritarianism, but one of relationship, sacrifice, service, and submission. Only after addressing this husbandly role does it say that so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything, and even there, it says so only so only in the manner that the church submits to Christ. And, again, the chapter goes on to remind both spouses that they are one flesh.

You cannot refer to one verse in this shapter without referring to the context of the entier verse, as it takes the message way out of context.
 
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Fishnbread

New Member
1st corinthians 11:3 say's But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

you will notice johnv that yu can not use the same excuse as you did with Eph 5:3.

Sorry!
 
T

Timtoolman

New Member
Originally posted by SaggyWoman:
Submission is an attitude, not an action.
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Which cannot show anything else but obedence. :rolleyes: Again we ignore scripture as it tells a wife to submit so as to honor God's word. You do not brng dishoner to your husbands but too the Lord's word. NOwhere does the word say disobey if your husband is not loving nor for husbands to stop loving wives because they do no submit to the God given authority over the home. AGAIN and AGAIN we are not released from our responsibilty to obey God because others do not. Not only does it not say anywhere that wives are released from this if the husband is not loving but it goes on to say why a wife should submit if he is not.
Its just playing with words. "Men ought to love their wives." Well it doesn't say SHOULD, it says ought so I guess it is no really that important. ;)
 
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SaggyWoman

Active Member
Submission is the attitude--obedience is the action.

But obedience to wrong requests--like not voting--what is that?
 
TC

TC

Active Member
Site Supporter
Telling someone is not a request, it is an order. Asking someone would be a request.
 
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Johnv

New Member
Originally posted by Fishnbread:
1st corinthians 11:3 say's But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

you will notice johnv that yu can not use the same excuse as you did with Eph 5:3.

Sorry!
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First, saying that I "cannot use the same excuse" does not negate what I said about Eph 5.

Second, the context of 1Cor 11 is not on the issue of whether submission is equal to obedience. The context of 1Cor 11 is that of propriety in worship. It's addressing the issue of authority in praying and prophesying. I nned not use the "same excuse" because it's not the same arguement. However, you cannot make the same assertion with 1Cor 11 as you did with Eph 5, because it doesn't address the topic you're trying to address.
 
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Fishnbread

New Member
Im sorry Johnv I thought the subject of this debate was should wives obey there husband's, not what does the word submit mean.

Am I wrong?
 
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Johnv

New Member
Originally posted by I Am Blessed 16:
Actually the topic is... If a husband tells his wife not to vote... should she submit and not vote?
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And on the topic, since the husband has no spiritual authority to make demands on a spouse, she's under no scriptural obligation to comply.
 
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Fishnbread

New Member
Ok I can answer that for all of you right now. YES she should obey him and yes she should submit. It is unbiblical for her not to submit and obey him. the word submit means to surrender to. you can not submit to your husband if you do not obey him. Is it voluntary? YES. will God punish you if you disobey for no Godly reason? YES.

For rebellion is as the sin of witchcaft.
 
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Johnv

New Member
Originally posted by Fishnbread:
Ok I can answer that for all of you right now. YES she should obey him and yes she should submit. It is unbiblical for her not to submit and obey him. the word submit means to surrender to. you can not submit to your husband if you do not obey him. Is it voluntary? YES. will God punish you if you disobey for no Godly reason? YES.

For rebellion is as the sin of witchcaft.
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Sorry, but I can't believe how off you are.

First, you've failed to connect "submission" to a spouse with "obedience" to a spouse. In fact, I've done a reasonable job at refuting the scriptures you used to make the claim.

Second, if a husband abuses his spousal headhip role by making such a demand, he is sinning. A wife takes parts in that sin by complying. It is a sin not only because it enables the abuse of the headship role, but also abuses the submission role. Since it is an enabling sin to comply, but not a sin to refrain, the wife's best course of action is to not sin, and refrain from complying.

Third, if rebellion is a sin of witchcraft, then the husband (by virtue of his abusing of the headhip role) is guilty of witchcraft, not the wife. The wife's best course of action is to refrain from practicing the same "witchcraft" by refusing to comply with the husband's rebellion.
 
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Fishnbread

New Member
Johnv aside from what you believe. the Bible say's God created Women for Men it also say's that God gave men authority over there Wive's. if you atmpeting to tell me that a husband telling his Wife not to vote is rebellion. Then you are with flaw, it is not sinful for a husband to exercise his leadership by telling his wife not to vote.

If it is show me the verse in the Bible please?
 
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Johnv

New Member
Originally posted by Fishnbread:
Johnv aside from what you believe. the Bible say's God created Women for Men it also say's that God gave men authority over there Wive's. if you atmpeting to tell me that a husband telling his Wife not to vote is rebellion. Then you are with flaw, it is not sinful for a husband to exercise his leadership by telling his wife not to vote.
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Sorry, but, like the other verses you listed, you're taking scripture here way out of context. You brought this up already, and I responded already. I guess listening is not a spiritual gift for you???
 
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