Fishnbread
New Member
By the way thank You for not minding me entering this chat I Am Blessed 16.
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Submissiveness
- Thread starter Scrapper
- Start date
Fishnbread
New Member
Tam I dont mean to sound rude but do you have degree in statistics or better still do you have the ability to see what men think? because the Bible says only God knows the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Please inform me if im to graphic.
your friend Fishnbread.
Please inform me if im to graphic.
your friend Fishnbread.
D
dianetavegia
Guest
Maybe it's because the people I am around are all church people but I don't know any abused wives! There was one man in our church who spoke very rudely to his pregnant wife when she lifted one of their toddlers and had some pain.... and our deacons followed them to the ER and read him the riot act!
Fishnbread
New Member
Diane I think it is a shame that men do that to there wives. Sometimes I think there is no hope for the world. However such zealous christians as you and the people in your church convince me there is still some good in the world.
Your brother and friend.
Fishnbread
Your brother and friend.
Fishnbread
Good for those men! We need more like them! Men who beat their wives really are cowards. They would not hurt another man but will beat on their wives.
When I pastored I can't tell you the number of wives I knew who were battered. It's one thing to see a man in his home and quite another to see him at church. I knew the experience first hand. My dad was all smiles at church but we knew what he was really like at home. He finally stopped when I was older and confronted him and told him the next time he did the police would be called. My mother told me he did stop until I left home and went to college. He was a regular chruch goer.
In one church alone where I pastored one of the deacon's wives told me he beat on her. One of the ladies that worked with the youth told me her husband beat on her.
In one church I pastored one of the ladies had a severely broken arm by her husband plus she was beaten. She was black and blue as well. You should have seen her face. I saw her shortly after she left the hospital. I hardly recognized her. She came to the Bible study I led in my home every week. Her husband came too. When I found out more I was told he had been in jail before for spousal abuse and a few other things.
Make it your aim to deal with battered wives and you will be surprised at how many there really are. If they are battered most likely they will not tell you unless they know you are a person who will help them and you are a person they can confide in.
Sometime take a trip to the woman's shelter near where you live. You will get a real eye-opener.
My brother in law is a retired police office and he has told me of many cases involving spousal abuse.
If you are open to working with those ladies be ready because some might surprise you who they are.
Fishnbread
New Member
Whoo gb93433 I think I speek for every one when I say. Just what you written here is a eye-opener.
No, I don't have a degree in statistics....and of course I can't see in their hearts.
I know some men that abuse these scriptures, that is all I am saying. I am sure most of us do. Sorry about the link...wasn't aware that is was linked wrong. It should be fixed in my profile.
When any man uses these scriptures to keep his thumb on his wife it is wrong.
I guess I have read this question at the wrong time, I am all to aware of men abusing their wives. I am not one of them, thank God. But, I work with some ladies that are.
I know some men that abuse these scriptures, that is all I am saying. I am sure most of us do. Sorry about the link...wasn't aware that is was linked wrong. It should be fixed in my profile.
When any man uses these scriptures to keep his thumb on his wife it is wrong.
I guess I have read this question at the wrong time, I am all to aware of men abusing their wives. I am not one of them, thank God. But, I work with some ladies that are.
Fishnbread
New Member
I am sorry but, unless you can prove most of us abuse the scriptures for our own purposes every thing you just said is nothing more than a estimate.
your brother.
Fishnbread.
your brother.
Fishnbread.
One time I wittnest a man beating down his wife/girl friend in a K-Mart parking lot, I mean he was laying in to her, when I had steped in to stop him, his wife/ girl friend started to attack me, I pushed her off, and high tailed it out of there, figured she was likeing it, but I for one can not stand seeing anyone weaker getting picked on, but some big bully, looking back I'm not sure I sould have just left, and I should have called the police, but I didn't want to get into trouble for mutual combat, or get blamed for the attack in some way, if you were in that situation, what would you have done?
Timtoolman
New Member
Personally I find women abuse these scriptures more then men. I think it is very plain here that man is the head, woman was made for the man, not the man for the woman. God has ordained this ordered so the anger should be placed toward God. To try and twist the scriptures into something other then submission is pure rebellion against God. Now I am talking about submitting to your husband, unless it is against God. I know ladies it is a tough pill to swallow at times. We all have to yeild to authority in our life which is yelding to God. If a husband makes a request of a wife that is not against God, His Word then it should be done. You can skip rope all around it but it still comes back to the fact God has placed the man as the head of the household. NOw as I listen to all the women on here that disagree eph, titus and the rest are all mute pt. They should not even be in the Bible. I ask one more time what part of submission are women to follow. Give me some specifics because it seems alot of the women who disagree have a hard time giving me instances.
Timtoolman
New Member
Good for those men! We need more like them! Men who beat their wives really are cowards. They would not hurt another man but will beat on their wives.
When I pastored I can't tell you the number of wives I knew who were battered. It's one thing to see a man in his home and quite another to see him at church. I knew the experience first hand. My dad was all smiles at church but we knew what he was really like at home. He finally stopped when I was older and confronted him and told him the next time he did the police would be called. My mother told me he did stop until I left home and went to college. He was a regular chruch goer.
In one church alone where I pastored one of the deacon's wives told me he beat on her. One of the ladies that worked with the youth told me her husband beat on her.
In one church I pastored one of the ladies had a severely broken arm by her husband plus she was beaten. She was black and blue as well. You should have seen her face. I saw her shortly after she left the hospital. I hardly recognized her. She came to the Bible study I led in my home every week. Her husband came too. When I found out more I was told he had been in jail before for spousal abuse and a few other things.
Make it your aim to deal with battered wives and you will be surprised at how many there really are. If they are battered most likely they will not tell you unless they know you are a person who will help them and you are a person they can confide in.
Sometime take a trip to the woman's shelter near where you live. You will get a real eye-opener.
My brother in law is a retired police office and he has told me of many cases involving spousal abuse.
If you are open to working with those ladies be ready because some might surprise you who they are. </font>[/QUOTE]This is off topic. I started it not about abuse but submission. Beating a wife is a given we were talking about voting for one. If the husband feels that both people running are not fit then should he be able to tell his wife not to vote? This is not abuse,this is not telling her to lie or not go to church. What if he ask her to clean the house, fix something special for dinner, where is the submissive part for you ladies who think submitt does not mean obeying your husband?
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
I don't think a husband should tell his wife not to vote just because he doesn't like the candidates who are running.
I would sense something wrong in a marriage where the man has to 'demand'.
I see in the scriptures that we are to submit "one to another", love, and submit. I see nothing about 'demanding' or being allowed to 'demand'.
If a man loves his wife like Christ loves the church, the wife will have no problem submitting. The husband will not have to demand.
A wife is allowed to say "no" submissively...
§ue
These are requests and are not taking away a basic right. If a husband tells his wife she may not vote - he is demanding - not requesting.
I would sense something wrong in a marriage where the man has to 'demand'.
I see in the scriptures that we are to submit "one to another", love, and submit. I see nothing about 'demanding' or being allowed to 'demand'.
If a man loves his wife like Christ loves the church, the wife will have no problem submitting. The husband will not have to demand.
A wife is allowed to say "no" submissively...
§ue
Fishnbread
New Member
Sorry I Am Blessed 16 but, Jim is right. God commanded women to obey there husbands. wether or not the wife agrees is obsolete to God.
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
In other words, a wife never has the right to say 'no' without being in rebellion (regardless of the 'demand' or the circumstances)?
If the husband is asking the wife to do something against God's will - she most CERTAINLY can say "no" and still be in submission to God (thereby not being 'out of submission' to her husband).
Sorry, I don't think you're right on this one guys...
If the husband is asking the wife to do something against God's will - she most CERTAINLY can say "no" and still be in submission to God (thereby not being 'out of submission' to her husband).
Sorry, I don't think you're right on this one guys...
Sue has a grasp on the subtle difference in regard to authority and submission.
And there is the difference. Those that advocate submitting to demands see the scripture as if submission as a child to a father, vs. wife to husband. There are those that view submission in this way (demands vs. requests) as no different.
To be consistent, comparing voting say, to beatings they have to advocate the latter if agreeing with the former. Rather than rightly dividing all the Word they emphasize the part that they try to use to justify their point. I shoud hope we all know that is not the way to interpret scripture.
There is absolutely no way to justify pulling scripture out of context to justify an evil deed. If submission is as those advocates claim. To the point of saying you should even take a beating as if that somehow glorifies the Lord then you would have to go far as to say you must allow a husband to punch a child in the face and allow that also.
After all, if a wife is to submit in that manner, how much more the children. If you advocate that, a husband is to submit to those who have the rule over him and to be consistent with that line of thinking if a boss has rule over the husband and wants to beat him up you have no right to protest, for he has the rule over you.
Now if you come back and say that's different. You are right because the submission of a child is not the same as a wife. Even so does that give any parent license to abuse their child? No. We are to raise them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Now if we teach women to submit to the abuse of a husband, so as not be hypocritical, we better tell the children if the get punched in the face they must submit. To say that is different that telling a wife how to vote, that is where you get off track. Demands are nowhere advocated in the scripture. Paul admonished the disciples to not Lord their position over the people.
When you look at all the scripture in context, a man is to love his wife as himself. For no man hates his own body, but loves and nurtures it.
As you read the scripture concerning husbands and wives you cannot leave out the ones on submitting one to another. This is consistent thoughout the whole New Testament. Some will take one scripture out of context and build an argument to advocte a wrong view. We are not to lord anything over one another. This is consistent with The teachings of Christ and the Apostle Paul.
And there is the difference. Those that advocate submitting to demands see the scripture as if submission as a child to a father, vs. wife to husband. There are those that view submission in this way (demands vs. requests) as no different.
To be consistent, comparing voting say, to beatings they have to advocate the latter if agreeing with the former. Rather than rightly dividing all the Word they emphasize the part that they try to use to justify their point. I shoud hope we all know that is not the way to interpret scripture.
There is absolutely no way to justify pulling scripture out of context to justify an evil deed. If submission is as those advocates claim. To the point of saying you should even take a beating as if that somehow glorifies the Lord then you would have to go far as to say you must allow a husband to punch a child in the face and allow that also.
After all, if a wife is to submit in that manner, how much more the children. If you advocate that, a husband is to submit to those who have the rule over him and to be consistent with that line of thinking if a boss has rule over the husband and wants to beat him up you have no right to protest, for he has the rule over you.
Now if you come back and say that's different. You are right because the submission of a child is not the same as a wife. Even so does that give any parent license to abuse their child? No. We are to raise them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Now if we teach women to submit to the abuse of a husband, so as not be hypocritical, we better tell the children if the get punched in the face they must submit. To say that is different that telling a wife how to vote, that is where you get off track. Demands are nowhere advocated in the scripture. Paul admonished the disciples to not Lord their position over the people.
When you look at all the scripture in context, a man is to love his wife as himself. For no man hates his own body, but loves and nurtures it.
As you read the scripture concerning husbands and wives you cannot leave out the ones on submitting one to another. This is consistent thoughout the whole New Testament. Some will take one scripture out of context and build an argument to advocte a wrong view. We are not to lord anything over one another. This is consistent with The teachings of Christ and the Apostle Paul.
SaggyWoman
Active Member
Pretty much.
I might add that I don't say that about all men. I say that about men who are control freaks.
SaggyWoman
Active Member
I agree that this specific thought is a control issue.
Submissiveness is not akin to doing what one is told to do. Marriages are not autocratic. Wives are not servants of their husbands. If a man "tells" a woman to do something, she is not scripturally required to blindly comply.
A scriptural marriage is a relationship, not a dictatorship.
It should be noted that BOTH husbands and wives are scripturally called to submit to each other as to Christ.