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Submissiveness
- Thread starter Scrapper
- Start date
You forget one thing. We submit to Christ, and Christ has submitted himself to us, starting with washing our feet, and ending with sacrificing himself on the cross. This is the same Christ who is the head of every household. If a husband does not submit to his wife as Christ submitted, then he fails to comprehend the complete meaning of headship.
Actually, Diane, Jesus Christ is the head of your household. Both of you submit to him in all areas, not just spiritual. That is probably why your marriage works. He loves you as required by scripture, and you submit to him as required by scripture. His loving you scripture has likely never put you in a position that would force you to compromise your duty to submission. I think many folks forget that.
[ October 27, 2004, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]
Where does one draw the line? What if you decided you didn't want her to wear any clothes around the house? After all, it's not a sin, since it's the privacy of your own home. What if you decided you didn't want her using toilet paper? What if you decided she needs to dye her hair purple? What if she hates the color blue, and you tell her to go the Home Depot, get some blue paint, and paint the bedroom blue?
None of those things are a sin. Do you, then, being the husband, think it reasonable for her to follow your instructions on these matters?
The truth is, husbands are required to love their wives. A husband who loves his wife will never require these things of her, and thus, not put her in a position where she will want to compromise her call of submission. Likewise, a husband who loves his wife according to scripture will not require her to either vote or refrain from voting.
Too often, men play the "submit" card, forgetting that, if they "loved" in the first place, then "submit" would never be an issue.
Diane,
You were raised in a Christian home, they failed. We all do. I wasn't and they both failed I have been married almost as long as you. I can list all the things myDH does too. I won't. He walks the walk. Why keep bringing it up like it was something great we did. It is by the grace of God. Does that make me a better Christian than a woman who's husband divorced her. Or a man who's wife divorced him?
So what's the beef? My husband told me it is obvously a sin for a husband to make demands. But he also trusts in Christ. Does that prove we are better than other? No.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
15 And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
18
Why should we boast? It serves nothing to compare ourselves to others. Our standard is Christ not how do I compare to others. We need to remember that especially when someone falls. When we get so careless as to think we are better. We are bound for a fall. We would all do well to remember that.
You were raised in a Christian home, they failed. We all do. I wasn't and they both failed I have been married almost as long as you. I can list all the things myDH does too. I won't. He walks the walk. Why keep bringing it up like it was something great we did. It is by the grace of God. Does that make me a better Christian than a woman who's husband divorced her. Or a man who's wife divorced him?
So what's the beef? My husband told me it is obvously a sin for a husband to make demands. But he also trusts in Christ. Does that prove we are better than other? No.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
15 And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
18
Why should we boast? It serves nothing to compare ourselves to others. Our standard is Christ not how do I compare to others. We need to remember that especially when someone falls. When we get so careless as to think we are better. We are bound for a fall. We would all do well to remember that.
So its a sin not too vote? Thats your stand? And what scriptures have I manipulated? [/QB][/QUOTE]
Oh, no... No it is not for me to say it is or is not a sin to vote. The scripture does not demand we vote or not. Whatever is not of faith is sin. Sorry if you misunderstood me.
It is a sin to make demands was my point. We each are accountable alone for our actions. I thought I made that clear. Sorry if you misunderstood.
Where does one draw the line? What if you decided you didn't want her to wear any clothes around the house? After all, it's not a sin, since it's the privacy of your own home. What if you decided you didn't want her using toilet paper? What if you decided she needs to dye her hair purple? What if she hates the color blue, and you tell her to go the Home Depot, get some blue paint, and paint the bedroom blue?
None of those things are a sin. Do you, then, being the husband, think it reasonable for her to follow your instructions on these matters?
The truth is, husbands are required to love their wives. A husband who loves his wife will never require these things of her, and thus, not put her in a position where she will want to compromise her call of submission. Likewise, a husband who loves his wife according to scripture will not require her to either vote or refrain from voting.
Too often, men play the "submit" card, forgetting that, if they "loved" in the first place, then "submit" would never be an issue.
</font>[/QUOTE]Well said JohnV.
Timtoolman
New Member
Where does one draw the line? What if you decided you didn't want her to wear any clothes around the house? After all, it's not a sin, since it's the privacy of your own home. What if you decided you didn't want her using toilet paper? What if you decided she needs to dye her hair purple? What if she hates the color blue, and you tell her to go the Home Depot, get some blue paint, and paint the bedroom blue?
None of those things are a sin. Do you, then, being the husband, think it reasonable for her to follow your instructions on these matters?
The truth is, husbands are required to love their wives. A husband who loves his wife will never require these things of her, and thus, not put her in a position where she will want to compromise her call of submission. Likewise, a husband who loves his wife according to scripture will not require her to either vote or refrain from voting.
Too often, men play the "submit" card, forgetting that, if they "loved" in the first place, then "submit" would never be an issue. </font>[/QUOTE]Well John it is a tough call, I agree with most of what you said but there are too many other things that say otherwise. Did not Jesus think himself equal but yet obeyed. Did Christ deserve the cross? NO he did not sin he died in our place. What about Joseph? Did not God allow him to be sold off and imprisioned for crimes he did not committ. Yeah its not fair but we are not God. He used Joseph as He saw fit and His name was glorified! We read that wives are to submit, stay with a man if he will have her, to bring honor to His word. Not to doubt God or go against His word, bringing dishonor. A wife is to continue living for the Lord and obeying so that he may be saved not by word but by her actions. Her loyality to God and His word. Yes it is a hard saying and I am coming across as a control freak I guess but I cannot run away from what scriptures say. It is not the woman's rights that are being looked out for, it is God's glory. Christ suffered for something he did not do, how much more are we to say that we shouldn't? I agreee submit is voluntary, you can't make a person do what they don't want to do, at least in America. That is the whole pt though. We are talking about a woman who loves the Lord, thus His word too or one that says that is not fair, and its all about me.
Tim
SaggyWoman
Active Member
I vacuum
The bottom line here. If a man is ordering his wife around and there is no scripture to back it up and many scriptures that say it is wrong to Lord it over a spouse, aside from a bro,sis, etc. Who is out of order ? That man usurping Christ's authority. Maybe that is the key to a wife failing to submit as JohnV said. A man sets the example to his family. Hmmm. Might be the answer to the rebellious attitude down the chain of family command.
I don't know personally of one woman that has a husband that follows Christ in his teaching to love your wives, which I believe is a tall order, would not do anything she can to please him.
I don't know personally of one woman that has a husband that follows Christ in his teaching to love your wives, which I believe is a tall order, would not do anything she can to please him.
Actually, what we're talking about is a man making expectations from his woman, when he should instead be doing what he is scripturally required of him. If he does this, then the wife/submission issue would be a non-issue.
Your whole post was a string of "the wife should" this and "the wife should" that. Not a single mention of what the husband should do. You're the husband. You should be primarily concerned about what the the husband's role is.
Marcia
Active Member
Timtoolman, not all of us who disagree with you are talking about women's rights (I am not sure any of us are).
I am talking about what the Bible says about these relationships. Why do you think God uses the word "submit" instead of "obey" for wives?
Back to the original OP: I stick with my original answer. If the husband makes such a tyrannical demand of his wife, he is being rebellious toward God because he is not treating his wife with love.
I am talking about what the Bible says about these relationships. Why do you think God uses the word "submit" instead of "obey" for wives?
Back to the original OP: I stick with my original answer. If the husband makes such a tyrannical demand of his wife, he is being rebellious toward God because he is not treating his wife with love.
D
dianetavegia
Guest
Marcia, I beg to differ.
ad·mon·ish
To reprove gently but earnestly.
To counsel (another) against something to be avoided; caution.
To remind of something forgotten or disregarded, as an obligation or a responsibility.
Timtoolman
New Member
Actually, what we're talking about is a man making expectations from his woman, when he should instead be doing what he is scripturally required of him. If he does this, then the wife/submission issue would be a non-issue.
Your whole post was a string of "the wife should" this and "the wife should" that. Not a single mention of what the husband should do. You're the husband. You should be primarily concerned about what the the husband's role is. </font>[/QUOTE]John the topic is submissiveness of a woman in voting. We can talk about the role of the husbnd if you want. Start another thread if you want. The Bible does not say submit if the husband is godly or doing ALL the right things. Also you and a couple others seem to think that a woman will always submit if the man does his role in loving her. Got news for you it ain't so! If you can't look around you and find abusive women in or rebellious women then I would like to visit your planet. Its not a matter of who is right or wrong its a matter of serving the Lord. We can inject our own feelings into what God says and try to make it justifiable to our human reasoning but that does not make it so.
Timtoolman
New Member
Not disagreeing with you here that women are to submit but that does include obey. Yes the husbands can be wrong and not living for the Lord but where does it say not to submit to a husband who is not. No in fact it says she should submit so that he could be won by her actions not the word.
I am 46 my wife and have raised two great kids. One grad. from Bob Jones last year with a music major and has a great voice. I just sent my youngest son there this fall. He is also majoring in music and has won the solo and preaching in the MAC compition there for christian schools last year. God a scholarship too. My wife and I have not had an issue with submissiveness that I can remember. She is very involved in church, playing paino, sec, teaching. Both kids, Justin and Kristin love the Lord and are looking to go into some kind of full time ministry. God has been good. Our family is blessed. My wife and I do disagree on this but when it is appropreate she does submit, and I do love her. I think these post make me out to be a tyrant but you can ask her if that is so. Right now she is a Bob Jones playing for some of the church kids who are competing in different areas of music and bible.
Timtoolman
New Member
Your whole post was a string of "the wife should" this and "the wife should" that. Not a single mention of what the husband should do. You're the husband. You should be primarily concerned about what the the husband's role is. [/QB][/QUOTE]
You are so very right John, and I am.
By the way John using your logic should a husband stop loving a wife because she is not submissive? According the Bible?
You are so very right John, and I am.
By the way John using your logic should a husband stop loving a wife because she is not submissive? According the Bible?
D
dianetavegia
Guest
Marcia, I beg to differ.
ad·mon·ish
To reprove gently but earnestly.
To counsel (another) against something to be avoided; caution.
To remind of something forgotten or disregarded, as an obligation or a responsibility.