Submitting to his authority

[Joe]

OK - Let's see.....

You come to a Christian website where the majority of us trust the whole of Scripture as God's Word, and ask why you need to obey God's direct command.

So she doesn't trust the whole scripture but you do?
Btw, you have posted no scriptural support for any of your views so get off your soapbox.

You give only part of the story, add more and more as it's convenient and then don't want to listen to the advice that those are here giving you.

This surprises you? Obviously, you have limited or no experience with women/families of abuse. Though this is a message board, so we don't know what is really happening. Yet with abusive situations, info often trickles out, usually not in the correct order. I believe she is listening to advice.
She adds to the story when it is convenient? You need to apologize.

Why did you post?

why do you care so much?

No one here is going to say 'You need to take care of yourself and your children.

Really? Well I am. It's called being a responsible mother.

Don't worry about submitting to your husband because he doesn't deserve it.

Whatever that means. No matter what, it's not constructive

He deserves a boot in the butt and I'm so proud of you for sticking with this relationship for your kids but it's time to end it."

Huh? Children are the main focus, ensuring no more abuse occurs to the family while she is learning to be a godly mother & wife.

People here are going to give you solid Biblical advice and that's what you've gotten.

Yes, solid biblical advice from everyone but you.

You're not going to change - so your marriage is doomed.

You do not know this, and have no right to discourage her with your outrageous conclusions. Go away

While some may be your husband's fault, I'd say quite a bit rests on your shoulders too.

Really? That's interesting

I'm sure there are other websites who will tickle your ears with what you want to hear but apparently you're looking for something here that you're not going to get.

How do you know what she is looking for? How do you know she is looking for something she can't find?

Go take a breather. Calm down lady

 

[annsni]

To those who think I should hand him the authority in spite of me having the responsibility, could you please answer the question I've asked several times? How does one live up to responsibility WITHOUT authority? The two go hand in hand. I fully understand giving authority to a husband who is responsible for the family. Now you can give authority to someone who isn't responsible but it won't do any good. What you cannot do is give someone responsibility wihout the authority to take care of that responsibility.

Can you show us one verse in Scripture that says the person who brings in the money is the one who is the one who is in authority? You keep saying that you have the responsibility so you should have the authority. I don't see that in Scripture. But then again, we look at the Bible completely differently.

 

[menageriekeeper]

[You think my attitude is wrong because I say he either stays sober or he's out?/QUOTE]

No dear, we think you both need an attitude change because niether of you will admit that you have a sin issue. His is drink and his previous unwillingness to support his family. Yours is pride. "I've done just fine all these years and I'm not about to hand over responsibility to him."

You say no one here has been in your situation, but I told you my husband had a sin issue and spent money we didn't have, causing me to work for years, before he figured out what he was doing was wrong. Did I let us come close to bankrupcy? You bet I did! Did I let our lifestyle change from living in a home that had 3 br and 2 baths and all the amenities to one that had 4 rooms (period)? You bet I did!

Yes, I have absolutely been where you are and I absolutely had to change my entire attitude before I found God's blessing and peace. I was just like you. Our problems were all his fault and he needed to suffer for it! Well, let me tell, until I changed me, he didn't budge.

Now I'm going to tell you something these other ladies probably won't. You need a divorce. You should have divorced him when left you and started seeing other women. You had the grounds, God wouldn't have condemned you. But you didn't do that. You let him back in. Why? Did you want revenge? Did you want him to be as miserable as you are? You don't want to change how you act toward him, but you expect him to change toward you. How do you figure that is going to work?

Someone has to be the grownup! If you don't want to be one, let this marriage go. It's broken, it's in pieces. No need to make two people miserable. No need to have your children grow up to think this sort of marriage is normal. Just get a divorce. Come back then in about a year and we'll tell you why you are still miserable. Cause I'm telling you (for the last time) until YOU change YOURSELF there will be no change in your marriage and you might as well stop wasting your time telling us how bad he is.

You, my dear, aren't even giving him the chance to change. If you hadn't wanted his advice on your job situation, why did you bother to tell him about it? Isn't his normal answer "You're a big girl, you'll figure it out." Well, there ya go, you had his answer. You should have went with it and been done. Instead you obviously didn't like that idea. You wanted something from him that you didn't get and so went back and tried again and got an answer you liked even less. Now you want to come here and complain that he wants to tell you what to do but he hasn't earned the right to do so! And you can't even see the problem with this.

You've dug a well to get to honey and found only water. What do you expect? Honey doens't come from wells. You want solutions to your marriage problems, we gave them to you. Submit yourself to the Lord and your marriage will slowly heal. You don't want to do that. It's outdated. Well too bad. There is nothing new under the sun. The very same sin that your husband is into existed when the Bible was written. What worked then, will work now. God doesn't change.

Now, if your husband has given you the responsibility or simply shirked the responsibility to bring in an income, then go bring one in. Quit asking him what you should do. YOU shouldn't be the sole support of your family anyway. I quoted that scripture already. But if you are, submission isn't the problem. I keep telling you you don't understand the concept of marriage and submission and neither does your husband. But you have his answer, bring in the money. You also have his answer on how to do that. Fine, if you do it his way what are the repercussion going to be? Can you live with those? What are you afraid is going to happen if you follow his advice? What is your husband's real priority? If he is going to use your loss of income as a means to abuse you, then by all means protect yourself.

If you and he want a real marriage, then you both are going to have to change and it's going to be HARD. All things worthwhile are.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Since this thread has turned into a debate and this is a fellowship forum, I am moving it to a debate forum.

 

[annsni]

So she doesn't trust the whole scripture but you do?
Btw, you have posted no scriptural support for any of your views so get off your soapbox.

"Wives submit to your husband as to the Lord" - Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3.

This surprises you? Obviously, you have limited or no experience with women/families of abuse. Though this is a message board, so we don't know what is really happening. Yet with abusive situations, info often trickles out, usually not in the correct order. I believe she is listening to advice.
She adds to the story when it is convenient? You need to apologize.
why do you care so much?

No - I've been had a LOT of experience with abuse including standing between a husband ready to kill his wife and the wife. I was there when the police took him away. I've been involved with numerous relationships like this. While this man is not holding up his end of the bargain, I do not fully agree that it is abusive. There are issues on BOTH sides - it's disfunctional, not abusive, IMO.

Really? Well I am. It's called being a responsible mother.

Read the rest of the quote. No where in Scripture are we told to just think of ourselves instead of thinking of the couple. We become one when we marry and like it or not, each wife NEEDS to think of her husband too.

Whatever that means. No matter what, it's not constructive

I posted that question because she's not taken one speck of advice from anyone here - even after 5 (?) pages of responses. There's only been excuses as to WHY she can't......

Huh? Children are the main focus, ensuring no more abuse occurs to the family while she is learning to be a godly mother & wife.

Is there abuse to the children? While it's not a good situation, I think abuse is a serious label for what this is. She is NOT learning to be a Godly wife and mother - because she's not learning. I could be wrong but I did not hear anything about praying about this - praying for her husband - turning him over to the Lord - getting any kind of counseling herself.

Yes, solid biblical advice from everyone but you.

Can you show me one place where my advice is not Biblical?

You do not know this, and have no right to discourage her with your outrageous conclusions. Go away

She has stated that she does not have the problem. She will not do anything to change. She stated that. In EVERY relationship, there are 2 people. And I can safely say that one is never perfect. And I'm going to stay here just as I have the right to.

Really? That's interesting

Yes. In my experience it's never just one person's fault. Ever. There are things to change on BOTH sides - the responsibility doesn't only rest on one person.

How do you know what she is looking for? How do you know she is looking for something she can't find?

She stated that she feels that if she makes more money (equaling having more responsibility), that she should have the authority. As I stated, this is a board where most of the people follow the Bible and the Bible is clear as above - it states that the wife is to submit to the husband. It doesn't say "whoever is more responsible has the authority" or "whoever makes more money has the authority". She's stated what she's looking for plenty of times.

Go take a breather. Calm down lady

I'M not upset. Honestly, I've counseled women like ivorytickler before. In my experience, they want a pat on the back and for someone to speak against what is taught in Scripture - AND they get annoyed when you don't tell them what they want to hear. I posted that she posted her feelings, did not get any support for them, shoots down ANY advice that she's getting so it's not worth posting to her. I know personally I have nothing more to say. God's Word is clear - the husband has the authority.

 

[Helen]

ivorytickler, from what I have read here, you are in a difficult situation. It seems you are trying to figure a way out. That is not bad. What the problem is, is that you want to figure out a solution in your terms, and we are VERY fallible human beings.

I would suggest to obey God's directives in every way possible to you and let HIM deal with the problem and solution. Our job as Christians, men or women, is to simply obey God. He knows what He is doing.

God knows the problems that beset you, both inside you and outside of you. And He knows the way out of them. He is the only one who does.

So turn your insides over to Him and the circumstances outside you over to Him, and pray that He will make you into the lovely and gracious woman He created you to be. He is the only one who can do that for any of us.

You see, it is not the circumstances which are our major problem, believe it or not. It is us, ourselves.

It is probably the hardest thing in the world to turn it all over to God. I've been there, got the T-shirt... But it is the only way out that will benefit your family and you.

One other thought -- since you earn the most money, this is a real blow to your husband's ego. Perhaps that makes it even more important that you look to him to be the major decision maker whenever you can. He needs to feel like more than a 'thing' hanging around.

You are both in my prayers.

 

[Joe]

Annsi telling people they will not change and deciding their marriage is doomed due to their sin issue of pride is not ok. I can see you were digging yourself out of a hole, so fine. I accept your answers. MK, Helen and others have given wonderful, godly advice in a Christian manner.

You state when you tell people the truth, they get angry. Well maybe it's your attitude, and your truth is not automatically the Bible's truth. Your lack of patience to understand a situation before you conclude it "doomed" is ignorant.

This is why she has reacted the way she has to you, and so have I. Again, get off your soapbox. I find it ironic someone is telling the other about the sin of pride while holding a mirror showing exactly what pride looks like.

Btw, I have had Pm communications with her, and they seem to be going well. She thanked me for my post. She seems to be understanding the submit issue, as we slowly get into more details of her life. But unless one takes time, and has the patience to help another person make godly decisions, then it's time to bow out. I don't have all of the answers upon how to submit while protecting your family from abuse. I may have some answers. I say is trust the Lord and he will lead you to the right answer. Telling her her marriage is not doomed is not ok.

You have no business counseling anyone, and yes, I guessed you had a pretty dysfunctional past.

 

[ivorytickler]

ivorytickler, from what I have read here, you are in a difficult situation. It seems you are trying to figure a way out. That is not bad. What the problem is, is that you want to figure out a solution in your terms, and we are VERY fallible human beings.

I would suggest to obey God's directives in every way possible to you and let HIM deal with the problem and solution. Our job as Christians, men or women, is to simply obey God. He knows what He is doing.

God knows the problems that beset you, both inside you and outside of you. And He knows the way out of them. He is the only one who does.

So turn your insides over to Him and the circumstances outside you over to Him, and pray that He will make you into the lovely and gracious woman He created you to be. He is the only one who can do that for any of us.

You see, it is not the circumstances which are our major problem, believe it or not. It is us, ourselves.

It is probably the hardest thing in the world to turn it all over to God. I've been there, got the T-shirt... But it is the only way out that will benefit your family and you.

One other thought -- since you earn the most money, this is a real blow to your husband's ego. Perhaps that makes it even more important that you look to him to be the major decision maker whenever you can. He needs to feel like more than a 'thing' hanging around.

You are both in my prayers.

Is it God's directive for me to hand authroity over to a man who has handed me responsibility for my family when authority is needed in order to live up to responsibility? It's simply not possible to live up to responsibility without the authroity to do so and I have the responsibility for my family. Honestlly, I believe that Paul gave the admonshment he did because men had the responsibility back then and women needed to give them the authority that needs to go with it. Hence my quandry. I have the responsibility. That will not change. Without the authority, I can't live up to the responsibility. It can't be done. The authroity to live up to the responsibility is necessary to live up to the responsibility I have been given.

I keep asking over and over but never get an answer to the question how do you live up to responsibility that you are not granted the authority to live up to?

Turning things over to God doesn't mean throwing your hands up and expecting God to do it. He gave us brains for a reason. He expects us to use them. I do look for God's direction but it's hard to see here. Clearly, God wants me to have the responsibility for my family. I wouldn't have been given it if it weren't is will (and my husbands will so it's unanamous). Problem is that without authroity, you can't live up to responsibility. I can't shirk my responsibility to care for my family. That is my burden in life. One I am very grateful that God gave me the wherewithall to take care of.

The problem is the decisions he wants to make are regarding my career. They are based on how HE thinks my boss and company will react to demands not the reality of what is going on in my industry. It's like going to the polls and voting for whoever's name you like. He has no clue because he doesn't work where I work. He's convinced I don't have a clue. It will be a disaster if I start doing what my husband says to do at work. Not only will I end up fired. I'll end up black listed. He's not qualified to make decisions about my career. He doesn't work it.

He also doesn't have a clue as to how the career I want to move into works. When he starts telling me how things are, I go on line and look it up to show him he's wrong only to get told "Why do you always have to be right". He doesn't take the time to research things himself but insists he's right. That's part of recovery from too much drinking I'm sure but his judegement is impaired. If he'd had a stroke would anyone be telling me to submit to his decisions based on illogic? Yet because it was drinking it's ok? No one would tell me to submit if his brain were damaged by a stroke yet alcohol damage is to be ignored? And that's not even the point. The point was and is that I cannot live up to my responsibilities without the proper authority to do so. It's my responsibility so it has to be me making the decisions to manage the responsibility.

 

[ivorytickler]

"Though this is a message board, so we don't know what is really happening. Yet with abusive situations, info often trickles out, usually not in the correct order"

Yeah, that. People who have known me for years were shocked at how fast I filed for divorce after he left and how hard I fought to keep custody. They never knew. You only tell what needs to be told and then only as the information is needed, hence it being out of chronological order.

Sometimes you know things are bad but you can't fix them. It's not so much living in denial that leads to not talking about them but just not wanting to deal with all the well meaning people who will start telling you what you should do on top of what you're already dealing with. People don't offer support. They offer advice and judgement. And then wonder why you don't talk :laugh:

I didn't come here asking for advice on his drinking or the issues that that created. I came asking about authority issues then realized that background as to why we are in the situation we are in is relevent. We are where we are. I don't see him taking over resonsibility for us any time soon. That will remain my burden but I'm really ok with that. God has taught me that I am quite capable. What I can't do is live up to my responsibilities while someone else has the authority I need to do so. In this case, someone who won't even listen to what I have to say and the decisions at hand are regarding MY career not his.

 

[ivorytickler]

"One other thought -- since you earn the most money, this is a real blow to your husband's ego."

Doubtful. He brags about my career.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Sweetie, if he has given you the responsibility for making the paycheck then he has automatically given you the authority to make the decisions that need to be made, to a certain extent.

However, just as a Christian husband wouldn't make a job change without consulting his wife, you shouldn't make a decision that may change the entire family's lifestyle without consulting him. Personally, I believe you have consulted him way more than necessary. When he left, he gave up all authority over you. He irrevocably broke the marriage.

In my view, how much authority you let him have back is up to you. BUT, if you are going to have a marriage (rather than a relationship) both of you are going to have to learn to do things God's way. That is, he will have to learn to take responsibility (responsibility comes before authority) and you will have to learn to relinquish it. There is but one way marriage works and that is both partners submitting to God first and each other second.

 

[annsni]

Annsi telling people they will not change and deciding their marriage is doomed due to their sin issue of pride is not ok. I can see you were digging yourself out of a hole, so fine. I accept your answers. MK, Helen and others have given wonderful, godly advice in a Christian manner.

When someone says "I will not do this unless he changes", oftentimes, that will not work. I'm not digging out of any hole - I hope you read ALL of my posting and not just the last one. I just read through the thread and you are totally misreading me fully.

You state when you tell people the truth, they get angry. Well maybe it's your attitude, and your truth is not automatically the Bible's truth. Your lack of patience to understand a situation before you conclude it "doomed" is ignorant.

I didn't say that when I tell people the truth, they get angry. I've spoken the truth to others and they've been open enough to see something in their lives that is not right - and that what I was saying might possibly be true. I've also been more than happy to be wrong with what I understood but I have not seen that here. Again, read MY posts.

This is why she has reacted the way she has to you, and so have I. Again, get off your soapbox. I find it ironic someone is telling the other about the sin of pride while holding a mirror showing exactly what pride looks like.

My soapbox is that she's asking how to take authority because she has the "responsibility" and that is not a Biblical directive. Scripture is clear - the wife submits to her husband's authority. I don't understand why you are saying that I'm being prideful by saying that. God said it and ivorytickler is saying that it can't be done.

Btw, I have had Pm communications with her, and they seem to be going well. She thanked me for my post. She seems to be understanding the submit issue, as we slowly get into more details of her life. But unless one takes time, and has the patience to help another person make godly decisions, then it's time to bow out. I don't have all of the answers upon how to submit while protecting your family from abuse. I may have some answers. I say is trust the Lord and he will lead you to the right answer. Telling her her marriage is not doomed is not ok.

That is wonderful that you are PMing her and I pray that you will be a blessing to her and her marriage - speaking truth to her and guiding her. I asked questions, and gave advice which was quickly shot down because "I can't do that - I NEED to take control - I will NOT let him be the authority". There's been a lot of pride in THOSE posts (and I'm not the only one who has seen that from what I've read in other's responses including your own... quoting from your post #4 "You are not the breadwinner. If that is your attitude, then it's called being selfish. Prideful comes to mind. I would never use that term pertaining to myself. I have a feeling it is your selfishness with the household money which is the problem."

You have no business counseling anyone, and yes, I guessed you had a pretty dysfunctional past.

Actually, I do have a business counseling someone AND I had actually a very wonderful past (no dysfunction) - but have been there for many women who have had disfunctional and abusive marriages/relationships. I do not see why I do not have any business counseling anyone and that I had a dysfunctional past. I have no clue why you came up with that. Again, did you read my posts? Where I suggested she get counseling (and that was shot down)? Where I said that there were issues with her husband but also issues with her that are not allowing her to let her husband have any authority (that she was in a "survivor mode")?

I asked you to show me where I gave unBiblical advice and I still haven't seen it. If someone is not willing to work on a relationship and draws the line in the sand and not allowing God to work, then chances are darned good that it will not work. Period. Only God can heal a marriage but He will not do it when someone doesn't wish to work on it. Not once did ivorytickler listen to any of the advice on the 8 pages of advice here, so I don't know why she came here to look for any.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Doubtful. He brags about my career.

Bragging is a sign of insecurity. It is all about making himself look good at the expense of someone else.

I daresay a lot of his drinking is also about feelings of insufficiency. It's why he promoted your career over his (gave him someone to blame if things went south). It's why 'everything' is your fault. It's a power and control issue that is at the heart of all abusers. They feel powerless so they try to control others to gain a feeling of being powerful. It's an empty feeling though. One has to be constructive in and of themselves to have meaningful feelings of confidence. Control only gives an illusion of confidence.

He is going to have to build up confidence in himself and he won't be able to that if he can't experience failure and deal with it constructively (for a change). He can't fail if you won't let him.

 

[Joe]

Let's be done with our communications Ann.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Since none of the advice given has been heeded, this will be my last post on the subject.

Ivory: Your marriage problems are too complicated to seek advice on the Internet. You and your husband need to go to joint Christian counseling and learn to submit to each other.

No one here (including Joe) is qualified to tell you how to run your life. No one is walking in your shoes.

I DO know, from personal experience, that until you go to God and tell Him that 'whatever it takes, thy will be done', then and only then can He straighten out your life.

God will not allow anything to happen that He does not want to happen. He is still in control. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever and His directives do not change from one generation to the next.

 

[ivorytickler]

Sweetie, if he has given you the responsibility for making the paycheck then he has automatically given you the authority to make the decisions that need to be made, to a certain extent.

However, just as a Christian husband wouldn't make a job change without consulting his wife, you shouldn't make a decision that may change the entire family's lifestyle without consulting him. Personally, I believe you have consulted him way more than necessary. When he left, he gave up all authority over you. He irrevocably broke the marriage.

In my view, how much authority you let him have back is up to you. BUT, if you are going to have a marriage (rather than a relationship) both of you are going to have to learn to do things God's way. That is, he will have to learn to take responsibility (responsibility comes before authority) and you will have to learn to relinquish it. There is but one way marriage works and that is both partners submitting to God first and each other second.

I agree. Responsibility does come before authority. That's the part he's not getting right now. He wants the authority to tell me what to do but doesn't take the responsibility for what happens if I did it.

How much authority I give back to him depends on how much responsibility he wants. So far, he hasn't indicated he wants any. Just the authority and a submissive wife???? Kind of like wanting the reward without the work wouldn't you say?

I agree with Joe that he is not ready. He's still recovering. Because of that, I truely feel things are as they need to be for now. I know it's not my call but I can't help but wish he'd take this time to get his spiritual self right. The rest will fall in place then. God will either convict him to take over the responsibility for supporting this household and he'll take the authority that goes with that or he'll convict him to understand that just maybe I understand how my industry works better than he does.

One thing he forgets is that I am not a man. It's not the size of my paycheck that matters to me. It's what I do for a living. I'd rather take the lower paying job that serves others than the higher paying one that serves only me in the form of a bigger check. He keeps arguing this from a money stand point that I just can't see. The way I see it we just need to be able to live off of BOTH of our incomes not just mine. So I don't see the income loss I'm suggesting as an issue.

I guess I could stay in school. Reality is, I need a PhD to do what he wants me to do and I'm sitting with a masters degree. I guess if I were willing to still attend night classes for the next 4 years I could make the switch I want with the one he wants in the works and hope things change in 4 years....but I"m SOOOOO tired of working all day, going to night school and then trying to do everything around the house. The class I'm taking now is my last one towards this degree. I want to be done and he wants me to get right back on the treadmill. And it will be hard to go to school for something I don't want. He's convinced I will want it when I get there. I want something simpler.

 

[LeBuick]

Lord,

Please bless and keep this board and enable us to withstand any evil attack. For we know our fight is not against each other, but against the evil forces of this world.

In the name of Jesus, Amen raying:

 

[menageriekeeper]

know it's not my call but I can't help but wish he'd take this time to get his spiritual self right.

How is he going to get himself right if you're not right? Remember, God says the unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believer.

Now you let him back into the house, that takes responsibility off him and puts it back on you. I hate to say it, but you are enabling him to keep on the same track. He wouldn't have returned my house until ALL had been worked out and I had proof positive that he was ready to be a husband. At this point, ya'll barely have a relationship, much less a marriage. He's going to continue to be a deadbeat until he runs into a consequence that make him think seriously about what he is doing. God can't convict a person who has no reason to repent.

He's not forgetting that you are a woman. At this point he still doesn't care. You are allowing both he and you to fall back into the same patterns you just drug yourself out of. And if he hadn't of left, you wouldn't have fought him. You were stuck in the rut with a better the devil you know than the one you don't attitude and you are still half in that rut. This is from a lack of faith in God, on your part, that He will meet all your needs.

Why are you still arguing with him? He broke your marriage. It's not up to him to argue with you at this point. You need to tell him that he has yet to prove that he can be a true husband to you and until he does there can be no marriage and no arguement. Right now, all you have is a piece of paper.

You need to consider things from his point of view and make certain that you know everything there is to know about your and his finances. You might not can see why he wants you in a higher paying career, but I bet he has a reason and it may not be a bigger house. Men have all sorts of ways to hide things from their wives, especially since he's one at home bringing in the mail! As much as you are gone through, he needs to be transparent with you. If he can't be, then you need to back off from this reconcialation a bit even if that means moving into the basement while he lives upstairs.

As far as the house goes, just don't. My poor husband tried just once to do the Lord of the Manor routine. We were working the same hours, though I didn't make quite as much as he. He got some idea that since I didn't make as much as he that I needed to do more of the household chores than he did even though I wasn't at home any more than he (we worked for the same company even!). I told him I would do exactly as much as he was willing, that a husband that loved his wife didn't play games like that. It took 3 weeks. He did nothing. I did nothing. Btw, it hurts a woman a lot more than a man to leave things undone. 3 looonnng weeks. No dishes, no dusting, trash didn't get picked up. Nothing. We went to work, came home, watched tv and went to bed. I didn't nag and if he complained I totally ignored him. I didn't repeat myself, argue or fuss. We had had these kinds of discussions before we were married and he had basically agreed that we'd share the chores, but his mama hadn't ever made him do much so he thought I'd be like her. Three weeks. I gritted my teeth everytime I walked to the kitchen.

Saturday morning after the third week, T says, I'll help if you want to clean up. And we cleaned up. I didn't brag, say I told you so or any of the above and I never had that particular problem again. This I might add all happened before the bad stuff. Even he laughs about it now. He knew he was wrong, but he wanted to know what I'd put up with. (sometimes men are children in disguise. )

Men have to suffer their own consequences. Your husbands consequence is that he has lost his authority. He'd like it back, but he needs to understand that with that authority comes great responsilbility that he can't shirk off on to you. And that is the responsibitility to care for his family: you, your children, his children from previous relationships and even alimony if he must pay it. It is certainly not your responsilbility to pay his child support/alimony, if you are doing so.

Umm, is paying for your tuition? Who is watching the kids while you are going to school and working? ARe you sure you are doing it all or is he contributing in ways you haven't counted because he doens't do things they way you want them?

He also needs to be very concerned that you aren't enjoying your career track. Disenchantment often means low job performance and then no job at all. It is a foolish husband who doesn't consider the wishes and needs of his wife. Right now, I'm not certain that he is your husband. With no more commitment than moving back into the house from him, I can't see that your marriage is any better off than when he lived elsewhere.

Sue is right. You have way to many problems to be dealt with on the BB. If he won't go to a Christian counselor with you, then you need to go by yourself. If you get any garbage about how you should submit to abuse, find a different counselor. As always there are good ones and bad ones. You need to find one that understands that your marriage is broken, not weak, not having a little trouble, but broke into little pieces that only the Lord can put back together. Let husband also continue where he is. I daresay he needs both. But you must take care of own spiritual needs in order to plan for the future.

Let me add that this isn't a reward situation. You are not rewarding your husband when you give back to him the responsibilities that he is supposed to be carrying already. God gave him his orders when he married you, it isn't a reward! Your submission to him is also NOT a reward. It is you following your orders that God gave you when you married. This is not a get what you can type situation. You are not breaking open a pinata to get the prize. Stop thinking of it as such.

 

[BobRyan]

Hi my name is Cindy, I'm currently a free methodist but an ex baptist. My husband and I are going through the Love and Respect seminar series after nearly divorcing earlier this year. We're to the part about wives submtting to her husband's authority and I'm struggling with that idea.

I've always worked and supported this family (I out earn him by about 50%). What I struggle with is the idea that he should have the authority because he has the responsibility when our reality is that I have the responsibility. I'm interested in seeing how other Christian couples in this situation handle the authority issue.

If he were the breadwinner, I would understand because he would need to make decisions that protect his ability to care for the family but I'm the breadwinner. He still thinks he should have the authority Cindy

Cindy --

I am one of the posters on this board that believes in the authority of God's Word - that the Words of God even to the point of the Ten Commandments are binding -- and that the Law of God is not nailed to the cross - just our debt of sin is nailed to the cross.

So my advice is going to sound a lot like "God said to do this in His Word so we have to do it" on this subject just like I say that on a lot of other topics.

Others might want to respond with something like "that is bondage to the Law - we are free and should not be bound by such things as God-said-it so do-it".

So you may get a few different views on this.

Given the context of a Marriage between two actual Christians that are submitted to God -- we have --


In Gen 3 God stated that the order in Marriage is that the man rules over the woman. This is primariy due to the sinful nature and the fact that two competting sinful (flawed) wills can not both be the decision point on all matters and still have an outcome other than divorce.

So for the sake of order and harmony in the case of a tie - the deciding vote goes to the man.

Having said that -- the order for the man is to love the Woman as Christ loved the Church and gave HIMSELF up for HER. This is a give-all-for-others model and when you volunteer to step into the man's role - that is the role you are claiming. An "I give up all for you dear" role.

But more importanly - Christ has to be the center of the Home for any home to stay together. You can not go Christ in famiy worship each day saying "Christ - I have a better Idea -- How about you deal with me as the head of the home instead of my husband".

In James 4 the Bible says "let not many of you seek to become teachers for as such you shall incurr a stricter judgment" this applies as well to the role that you are trying to claim in the home.

This is much more than an issue "about money".


Given the context of a Marriage where the man has left the woman for another and has informed his former family that he is now with someone else... we have an entirely different issue.


Step one. Do not get back together until he becomes an actual Christian. Rule 1 you do not marry someone who is not a Christian today -- you do not marry them "just because they are an x-" as a way to get around rule 1.

The Bible is actually very specific about the danger of returning to a spouse that has left and already selected someone else as their mate -- even if they try later to return.

In any case the solution of -- "reMarriarge first -- then later God may be allowed in if all goes well in the marriage and substance-abuse recovery programs" is a high risk way to get back on your feet.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[ivorytickler]

Bob, Just wanted to clear up the issue of the other woman. He did not leave me for her. He dated her while we were separated. She was actually part of his crisis. He started seeing her right about the point he hit bottom. He claims that she drove home what he'd given up when he left.

I do believe he had a crisis and I'm starting to believe he really had an epiphany regarding his drinking and the reasons he drank. I probably did let him move in too soon but I had my reasons. Whether this works or not, I needed to get my kids off the merry go round. While it will be a long time before they have any faith in the relationship, it will also be a long time before we're sure this is going to work. I knew that going in. As I told our marriage counselor, I'm either in or I'm out. I don't straddle fences and I don't ask my kids to straddle them. As far as my kids are concerned, we're either working things out or getting divorced there can be no middle ground. Do you have any idea how confusing it is for kids for mom and dad to be getting divorced AND dating? Talk about not knowing what to expect.

Anyway, I'm afraid the trial by fire is upon us. I got my walking papers at work today. My last day is friday (does this mean I have to fire the housekeeper,??? :tear: :laugh: ). His first reaction was to demand that I do NOTHING for them the rest of the week. I told him I have to leave on my terms. My coworkers did not decide to downsize me out and they are the ones who pay if I don't facilitate an orderly hand off of my responsibilities this week. Strike one for the submissive wife, :laugh: I just can't do the things he comes up with.

Anyway, I'm about to embark on a job search that will probably take several months where there will, undoubtedly, be battles of the will but more importantly, we're embarking on a time in our marriage where I have to rely on him. It's funny. I just knew I'd be one of the people let go. A time when I have to rely on him and he has to live up to that responsibility just might be what the doctor ordered. This will either strengthen our marriage or destroy it. There won't be any middle ground. Good thing I don't like middle ground.

Please pray that we're both up to the challenge before us.

Thanks
Cindy