Summarizing the Mistakes of Calvinism

[Skandelon]

I believe these summarize the three mistakes Calvinists make in their interpretation of scripture:

1. They misapply passages that are in reference to the way in which God chose his divinely appointed apostles by applying them to the method God has chosen to save all souls. Proof that God sovereignly hand picks his messengers in no way proves that He sovereignly hand picks who will and will not believe their message.

2. They fail to recognize that in the two passages that the term predestination is mentioned it is in reference to those who already believe ("us"). Believers are "predestined to be conformed to Christ's image." And believers are "predestined to be adopted as his sons." Neither of these goals have been accomplished in our lives, but whosoever believes in Christ, God has predetermined that they too will be "adopted as His son and conformed to his image."

3. They mistakenly apply passages having to do with God's choosing to save the Gentiles while temporarily hardening the Jews to support their view of total inability and God's pre-selection of certain individuals. Passages having to do with the hardened Jews are often used by Calvinists to support their doctrine of Total Depravity. Passages having to do with the revelation of God's choice to allow Gentiles entrance into the Covenant of grace are used to support their doctrine of Unconditional Election.​

 

[Amy.G]

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yessss, thems fightin words! Pass the popcorn.

 

[gb93433]

Eph. 2:10, "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."

 

[gb93433]

I believe these summarize the three mistakes Calvinists make in their interpretation of scripture:

I believe that they do the same thing that so many do. They do not know or ignore the historical context of the passages they interpret. Most of scripture is written by Jews to Jews and that does not include us. We think much differently than they did at the time and understand things differently than they did. Our Greek mindset does not and cannot always understand how Jews thought then.

 

[Skandelon]

I believe that they do the same thing that so many do. They do not know or ignore the historical context of the passages they interpret.

I couldn't agree more.

They seem not to understand that while Christ was here his goal wasn't to get a bunch of people to believe in him as we see in Acts 2 after Peter's first sermon. Christ was given a remnant from Israel to train as his messengers to be the foundation for the church. He blinds the rest of Israel by speaking in parables, telling his followers to keep things secret, sending a 'spirit of stupor' and the like to prevent the Jews from coming to repentance until the right time.

Not understanding or recognizing that historical context creates great misunderstandings.

 

[Amy.G]

Yessss, thems fightin words! Pass the popcorn.

Here ya go.........

 

[Amy.G]

I believe that they do the same thing that so many do. They do not know or ignore the historical context of the passages they interpret. Most of scripture is written by Jews to Jews and that does not include us. We think much differently than they did at the time and understand things differently than they did. Our Greek mindset does not and cannot always understand how Jews thought then.

Are you saying that us Gentiles can't understand scripture?

 

[Amy.G]

He blinds the rest of Israel by speaking in parables, telling his followers to keep things secret, sending a 'spirit of stupor' and the like to prevent the Jews from coming to repentance until the right time.

What is the difference between blinding Israel and not opening the eyes of certain Gentiles (as in Calvinistic theology)?

Either way you have people who aren't chosen.

 

[OldRegular]

Are you saying that us Gentiles can't understand scripture?

Sounds like it!

 

[Mark_13]

I wonder if we prayed that God strike with illness whichever side in this forum is promulgating error that God would honor it?:thumbs:

 

[Skandelon]

What is the difference between blinding Israel and not opening the eyes of certain Gentiles (as in Calvinistic theology)?

There are similarities which is why they make this mistake, but there are very important differences.

The bible teaches God has temporarily blinded a rebellious nation (Israel) in order to accomplish redemption for all. People are NOT born blind, as Calvinism's doctrine of Total Depravity asserts (not to be confused with the doctrine of Original Sin which we affirm). So, the difference is that in my view the rebellious Israelites are are being temporarily sealed in that hardened/blind condition for a time so they will crucify Christ, whereas the Calvinists take those verses out of context to mean that God blinds all men from birth.

Make sense?

Either way you have people who aren't chosen.

But, there is a HUGE difference.

1. Those being hardened are already rebellious people who have been rejecting God for generations. They weren't born rejected and without hope, as in Calvinism.

2. God is still showing them mercy by hardening them because, as Paul explains in Rom 11, by hardening Israel he allows room for the Gentiles to come into the church which may provoke the Jews to become jealous and then be saved. They would see the change in the Gentiles lives and see how much good the church was doing and become envious, which could change their will. Paul's goes on to say they can be grafted back in if they leave their unbelief. (Rm 11:14-32)

 

[Skandelon]

I wonder if we prayed that God strike with illness whichever side in this forum is promulgating error that God would honor it?:thumbs:

I'm not sure, are you feeling sick yet? :laugh:

 

[Mark_13]

I'm not sure, are you feeling sick yet? :laugh:

No, but if anyone advocates circumcision I'm going to wish that they castrate themselves.

 

[gb93433]

Are you saying that us Gentiles can't understand scripture?

It requires thinking with a Jewish mindset of the day. I find the older I get and the more I study I realize the more nonsense I have heard over the years from the politicians. Those who know the most, also know where they lack and need to study more. Those who claim to always know quickly find their ignorance kicks in when they open their mouth and remove all doubt.

 

[gb93433]

I wonder if we prayed that God strike with illness whichever side in this forum is promulgating error that God would honor it?:thumbs:

Thankfully a relationship with God does not depend on our intellectual knowledge always being right. He is full of grace.

 

[preacher4truth]

Wow. How rare of Skan to make a thread to attempt to demean calvinists. It looks to me its backfired.

Skan makes a thread about misrepresenting views, then turns around and makes one that completely misrepresents the views of others? I'm not surprised.

I find it difficult to believe he was a calvinist. It's clear he never understood Calvinism, nor that there is way more Scripture involved than what he uses here to support the truths of reformed faith. That, and he thoroughly misunderstands the passages he claims to understand.

Another amazing thing is we have a fellow who has much trouble with interpreting Scripture, trouble accepting when he's been proven wrong, and bears along with several other theological problems that come in the package deal of armininianism, yet, he now believes he's come along and has dismantled Calvinism in three flimsy strawman points? That my friends is delusional thinking! :laugh:

Jacobus Arminius also hated the teachings of predestination, election, Sovereignty. That would be three doctrines he sought to destroy that got his little tribe of Arminians condemned at the Canon of Dordrecht. And rightly so. I agree with the Canons verdict to this day. If you want to see the errors of Arminianism expressed for wehat they REALLY are and see them dismantled as false teaching you have to go read the canon here:

http://www.prca.org/cd_text1.html

I'll provide some solid and objective facts to dismantle his errant theology rather than using a subjective theory such as he did in the OP.

Now, most AG, WoF are also arminian based in theology and they end up with spurious beliefs via the proof text route that skan is on. Thanks to his errant theology we now have many heretical sects within Christianity, including Copelandism, Meyerism, Benny Hinn, Jerry Savelle, and much more, who take freewill and express their beliefs openly, understanding that their beliefs make God at the mercy of those who choose.

Their errant view of faith also stems from skans fallacious system. One logical end that skan won't accept from his armininan error is loss of salvation. He fails to understand that each teaching of Arminius leads to this end because of it's faulty view of God and man, whether he rejects loss of salvation or not. Thus, the faulty premise of Arminius leads from one error to another.

What I find of great interest is that one who claims to be a former Calvinist, in which said theology gives God all the glory in salvation, now goes to arminian theology where such a thing is clearly denied within their teachings.

- Peace

 

[gb93433]

Wow. How rare of Skan to make a thread to attempt to demean calvinists. It looks to me its backfired.

Are you talking about the people or their views. It seems that so many cannot separate their intellectual viewpoint from their person.

Now, most AG, WoF are also arminian based in theology and they end up with spurious beliefs via the proof text route that skan is on.

You equate WoF and Arminian theology? The scandals among the WofF are attributed to Arminian theology? I would equate that to Health/Wealth false news. Health/Wealth theology was around long before Arminius.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Sounds like Dallas Seminary trying to exert influence in many baptist circles once again.

 

[preacher4truth]

Are you talking about the people or their views. It seems that so many cannot separate their intellectual viewpoint from their person.

There is no separation. We know when we attack ones views, there is no missing the persons involved. Especially when we have threads, let's say, that tell us calvinists don't own up to their responsibilities, and, when we have the constant making of threads by one against them.

It's not hard to figure out.

You equate WoF and Arminian theology? The scandals among the WofF are attributed to Arminian theology? I would equate that to Health/Wealth false news. Health/Wealth theology was around long before Arminius.

Yes, I equate their theology with Arminian theology and it's not hard to see. Their theology stems from the same errant faith/freewill theology within Arminius doctrine.