Sunday School

[evangelist6589]

How does your church do SS? Is it a lecture hall where you can indoctrinate everyone with all the churches views? For example the churches view on alcoholic beverages, bible translations, music, dress, and other issues? Or is it in a more study format?

Church has made it open for members to give their input on how to improve the church and so I am going forward and presenting a more study based format that a former Bible church used where I was a member. Their goal was not indoctrination, but to create Bereans. This meant that ordinary members could question the church if they adapted a KJV Only position as ordinary members would have studied a basic introduction on textual criticism and bible translation to see the many advantages to modern versions. Members had to go through a Basic Bible study binder which got into a basic introdcution to systematic theology, textual criticism, etc.. We also learned how to use the Strongs concordance in that church in Sunday school!!!

 

[Greektim]

How does your church do SS? Is it a lecture hall where you can indoctrinate everyone with all the churches views? For example the churches view on alcoholic beverages, bible translations, music, dress, and other issues? Or is it in a more study format?

Church has made it open for members to give their input on how to improve the church and so I am going forward and presenting a more study based format that a former Bible church used where I was a member. Their goal was not indoctrination, but to create Bereans. This meant that ordinary members could question the church if they adapted a KJV Only position as ordinary members would have studied a basic introduction on textual criticism and bible translation to see the many advantages to modern versions. Members had to go through a Basic Bible study binder which got into a basic introdcution to systematic theology, textual criticism, etc.. We also learned how to use the Strongs concordance in that church in Sunday school!!!

I appreciate what you are saying, especially against indoctrination. But there is a reason God gave elders to the church with the qualification of teaching. What you are wanting is very much rooted in postmodernity and "all opinions" are valid and credible. When it comes to teaching the Bible, I can't stand that. Questions are fine. But leave the teaching with men who have studied and trained. Now if you don't like the "indonctrination" of your pastor... that says more about the church you attend than anything else.

 

[PreachTony]

How does your church do SS? Is it a lecture hall where you can indoctrinate everyone with all the churches views? For example the churches view on alcoholic beverages, bible translations, music, dress, and other issues? Or is it in a more study format?

Church has made it open for members to give their input on how to improve the church and so I am going forward and presenting a more study based format that a former Bible church used where I was a member. Their goal was not indoctrination, but to create Bereans. This meant that ordinary members could question the church if they adapted a KJV Only position as ordinary members would have studied a basic introduction on textual criticism and bible translation to see the many advantages to modern versions. Members had to go through a Basic Bible study binder which got into a basic introdcution to systematic theology, textual criticism, etc.. We also learned how to use the Strongs concordance in that church in Sunday school!!!

My church breaks into several smaller classes. The adult class is the largest, but we also have a teens class, a class for infants and toddlers, and a class for pre-teens. We used to have a class for the elder ladies, but several of them have passed on, so that class joined the adult class.

We typically teach going through a book at a time. None of our classes use pre-defined literature, like the study guides from Lifeway. We usually leave the curriculum to the decision of the teacher.

 

[gigabyte71]

I don't like the modern method of doing Sunday School, it tends to lead off topic. Being a Berean does NOT mean looking to argue with every single point that is made. They searched the Scriptures to see if what Paul was saying was true. There is a time to disagree with the teacher, but it isn't really during the SS time. I had someone who literally stood up, while I was teaching, and argued with me about what I was saying. We had to ask him to leave and not come back. And from what I have heard, this was common for him. I would prefer most people keep their mouths shut during class, there are people that will use the time for nothing more than cause confusion.

Here is an observation and this may be unique to me, but generally when you (generic you, not literally you) run Sunday School as an 'Open Forum', it is because you don't have much to say as a teacher. It is usually when the 'teacher' doesn't have the gift to teach and can't go beyond what is in the SS guide. I attended a SS class once with the teacher literally read the guide, verbatim.

Teaching people how to use Strong's is great, but it would be far more profitable to teach them basic hermeneutics.

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" Eph. 4:11-12

 

[evangelist6589]

I appreciate what you are saying, especially against indoctrination. But there is a reason God gave elders to the church with the qualification of teaching. What you are wanting is very much rooted in postmodernity and "all opinions" are valid and credible. When it comes to teaching the Bible, I can't stand that. Questions are fine. But leave the teaching with men who have studied and trained. Now if you don't like the "indonctrination" of your pastor... that says more about the church you attend than anything else.

I don't think so. Secondary issues were up for debate but the essentials were not. The goal was to create bereans whom knew their bibles!!!

 

[evangelist6589]

I don't like the modern method of doing Sunday School, it tends to lead off topic. Being a Berean does NOT mean looking to argue with every single point that is made. They searched the Scriptures to see if what Paul was saying was true. There is a time to disagree with the teacher, but it isn't really during the SS time. I had someone who literally stood up, while I was teaching, and argued with me about what I was saying. We had to ask him to leave and not come back. And from what I have heard, this was common for him. I would prefer most people keep their mouths shut during class, there are people that will use the time for nothing more than cause confusion.



Here is an observation and this may be unique to me, but generally when you (generic you, not literally you) run Sunday School as an 'Open Forum', it is because you don't have much to say as a teacher. It is usually when the 'teacher' doesn't have the gift to teach and can't go beyond what is in the SS guide. I attended a SS class once with the teacher literally read the guide, verbatim.



Teaching people how to use Strong's is great, but it would be far more profitable to teach them basic hermeneutics.



"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" Eph. 4:11-12

That's what they did in that church. They taught basic hermeneutics in SS.

 

[Greektim]

I don't think so. Secondary issues were up for debate but the essentials were not. The goal was to create bereans whom knew their bibles!!!

Show me where there was debate over "secondary" issues in the Bible. Being a "Berean" Christian doesn't mean SS open forum. Again... this is just postmodern, have-it-your-way, all opinions are valid kind of thinking.

Your problem is that you are in a church where a pastor does indoctrinate over stupid pet doctrines. But you can't broad brush here. Otherwise, how is this not indoctrination when you say your way is the best way???

And open forum is not going to create people who know their Bibles. B/c I guarantee you will hear opinions and views with very VERY little Bible to back it up. You need a leader trained in Scripture to teach Scripture. That is God's model.

 

[Van]

This is a very revealing thread. Some are "top down" autocrats who think there position or training means they should tell others what the Bible's message is. Others, kinda like me, are more egalitarian, wanting to engage the audience, and challenge them to think critically.

We do not have adult Sunday School, other than for Seniors; we have small groups, that meet and discuss the last week's Sermon. Study questions and reading assignments are included as an insert in the Sunday morning hand-outs. Thus we can preview the questions before the sermon is delivered, then afterwards complete our reading assignments, then go to our weekly (on various days of the week) small group. Usually, at least some members gain a better understanding of the message, and are better able to apply it to their lives.

Our Sunday School for children and youths is more doctrinaire, laying hopefully, the foundation (or if you will preparing the soil) for a future wholehearted acceptance of the gospel of Christ. Also, outreach plays a important part, so fun activities abound.

 

[gigabyte71]

This is a very revealing thread. Some are "top down" autocrats who think there position or training means they should tell others what the Bible's message is. Others, kinda like me, are more egalitarian, wanting to engage the audience, and challenge them to think critically.

It is interesting that you didn't disagree, but more interesting that you jumped to the conclusion that not wanting to have an open forum means people don't want the students to think critically.

Discussions almost always lend itself to opinions and the you either spend/waste part or most of the class dealing with said opinion.

 

[evangelist6589]

Show me where there was debate over "secondary" issues in the Bible. Being a "Berean" Christian doesn't mean SS open forum. Again... this is just postmodern, have-it-your-way, all opinions are valid kind of thinking.

Your problem is that you are in a church where a pastor does indoctrinate over stupid pet doctrines. But you can't broad brush here. Otherwise, how is this not indoctrination when you say your way is the best way???

And open forum is not going to create people who know their Bibles. B/c I guarantee you will hear opinions and views with very VERY little Bible to back it up. You need a leader trained in Scripture to teach Scripture. That is God's model.

Did you attend that bible church???? If not why speak? It was not open forum nor postmodern. It was bible based.

 

[Greektim]

Did you attend that bible church???? If not why speak? It was not open forum nor postmodern. It was bible based.

Where does the Bible advocate what you described???

And how is it not indoctrination to say that your way is the right way? You are being hypocritical.

 

[evangelist6589]

This is a very revealing thread. Some are "top down" autocrats who think there position or training means they should tell others what the Bible's message is. Others, kinda like me, are more egalitarian, wanting to engage the audience, and challenge them to think critically.

We do not have adult Sunday School, other than for Seniors; we have small groups, that meet and discuss the last week's Sermon. Study questions and reading assignments are included as an insert in the Sunday morning hand-outs. Thus we can preview the questions before the sermon is delivered, then afterwards complete our reading assignments, then go to our weekly (on various days of the week) small group. Usually, at least some members gain a better understanding of the message, and are better able to apply it to their lives.

Our Sunday School for children and youths is more doctrinaire, laying hopefully, the foundation (or if you will preparing the soil) for a future wholehearted acceptance of the gospel of Christ. Also, outreach plays a important part, so fun activities abound.

This sounds similar to the old church. We had reading, discussion, study questions, homework, etc...

 

[evangelist6589]

Where does the Bible advocate what you described???

And how is it not indoctrination to say that your way is the right way? You are being hypocritical.

I prefer to be in a class where I can think critically and learn the bible better.

 

[Greektim]

I prefer to be in a class where I can think critically and learn the bible better.

Still not answering the question (ironically since you think open discussion is the way to go).

So what format do you think you will learn the Bible better???

 

[evangelist6589]

Still not answering the question (ironically since you think open discussion is the way to go).

So what format do you think you will learn the Bible better???

Study guide format based. In that church people had a understanding of basic hermeneutics and systematic theology at the lay level. Very rare in churches. Open discussion was designed to engage the audience over the study material we covered. But there was only one correct answer.

 

[blessedwife318]

Still not answering the question (ironically since you think open discussion is the way to go).

So what format do you think you will learn the Bible better???

Evan doesn't answer questions, he only asks them to try to prove his own point. I'm still waiting for him to respond in his rapture tread. But for all his talk about liking debate he tends to disappear when debate does happen.

 

[gigabyte71]

Study guide format based. In that church people had a understanding of basic hermeneutics and systematic theology at the lay level. Very rare in churches. Open discussion was designed to engage the audience over the study material we covered. But there was only one correct answer.

I have no problem with 'Study Guides' when used appropriately. As I previously stated, I have seen them completely wrong, to the extent that the teacher did nothing more than read them, verbatim, to the class. When they got to discussion questions, the teacher read the question, then gave a brief answer, then continued with their reading. And most teachers I have seen use them teach the guide, not the Bible. They prepare by learning the guide, not the Scripture, then when actual questions arise about the Scripture, they can't answer it, unless it is directly addressed in the guide.

Another thing about open forum discussions, the questions in the guides are often about the book text, not the Biblical text. That is really no different than the people who respond to a question about what they believe with, 'well, my pastor says.' People need to learn to respond to questions with what God says, not what their pastor, sunday school teacher, or sunday school guide says. I have seen Sunday School guides misuse Scripture to support their topic, this SHOULD BE a huge red flag.

 

[evangelist6589]

I have no problem with 'Study Guides' when used appropriately. As I previously stated, I have seen them completely wrong, to the extent that the teacher did nothing more than read them, verbatim, to the class. When they got to discussion questions, the teacher read the question, then gave a brief answer, then continued with their reading. And most teachers I have seen use them teach the guide, not the Bible. They prepare by learning the guide, not the Scripture, then when actual questions arise about the Scripture, they can't answer it, unless it is directly addressed in the guide.



Another thing about open forum discussions, the questions in the guides are often about the book text, not the Biblical text. That is really no different than the people who respond to a question about what they believe with, 'well, my pastor says.' People need to learn to respond to questions with what God says, not what their pastor, sunday school teacher, or sunday school guide says. I have seen Sunday School guides misuse Scripture to support their topic, this SHOULD BE a huge red flag.

Well that's one opinion and experience. Mine was completely different. Study guide is right from the text or topical such as on hermeneutics or systematic theology.

 

[Deacon]

How does your church do SS? Is it a lecture hall where you can indoctrinate everyone with all the churches views? For example the churches view on alcoholic beverages, bible translations, music, dress, and other issues? Or is it in a more study format?

My opinion is that doctrine should flow from a biblical text rather than the other way around. That way the emphasis is on God’s word rather than our understanding or our particular ordering of it.

Our goal is not to learn any particular doctrinal methodology but to meet God, to learn about him and his ways. We discuss basic doctrine as we meet it in the scriptures we study.


At the church I attend the Adult Bible Study class meets at 9AM, an hour before the main service. We meet in a small, one room building near the main church structure that used to be a "mill house", the old machinery can still be seen in the basement.

We are the only class that meets at this time. The young children’s classes occur during the service. Young adults leave half way through the service to attend their own teaching class.

The Adult Study Class started by randomly studying bible books that the teacher was interested in studying. It was led by an older gentlemen strongly influenced by dispensational theology; this proclivity tended to introduce some bias into some conclusions he drew from scripture.

The class eventually petered out (and so did he). A while later I began a study of Genesis, we moved on to Leviticus and Numbers. A well-educated member of the class taught Deuteronomy. The plan is to teach our way through the scriptures.

The class is a diversity of individuals of varying age, race, education and background.

Just recently, to meet some needs I felt needed to be addressed, we’ve begun a short 8 week class on ‘Our Identity in Christ’.

We provide handouts each week and I’ve been supplementing my teaching with short 6 to 10 minute video instruction offered by a Logos Mobile Education class taught by Elyse Fitzpatrick [LINK].

I'm picking through portions of the video provided and using only portions of it. I’m not even using her outline but I’ve found that including multimedia is very beneficial in focusing the class and provoking discussion (…that and the fact that she teaches better than I do!).

Rob

 

[evangelist6589]

My opinion is that doctrine should flow from a biblical text rather than the other way around. That way the emphasis is on God’s word rather than our understanding or our particular ordering of it.

Our goal is not to learn any particular doctrinal methodology but to meet God, to learn about him and his ways. We discuss basic doctrine as we meet it in the scriptures we study.


At the church I attend the Adult Bible Study class meets at 9AM, an hour before the main service. We meet in a small, one room building near the main church structure that used to be a "mill house", the old machinery can still be seen in the basement.

We are the only class that meets at this time. The young children’s classes occur during the service. Young adults leave half way through the service to attend their own teaching class.

The Adult Study Class started by randomly studying bible books that the teacher was interested in studying. It was led by an older gentlemen strongly influenced by dispensational theology; this proclivity tended to introduce some bias into some conclusions he drew from scripture.

The class eventually petered out (and so did he). A while later I began a study of Genesis, we moved on to Leviticus and Numbers. A well-educated member of the class taught Deuteronomy. The plan is to teach our way through the scriptures.

The class is a diversity of individuals of varying age, race, education and background.

Just recently, to meet some needs I felt needed to be addressed, we’ve begun a short 8 week class on ‘Our Identity in Christ’.

We provide handouts each week and I’ve been supplementing my teaching with short 6 to 10 minute video instruction offered by a Logos Mobile Education class taught by Elyse Fitzpatrick [LINK].

I'm picking through portions of the video provided and using only portions of it. I’m not even using her outline but I’ve found that including multimedia is very beneficial in focusing the class and provoking discussion (…that and the fact that she teaches better than I do!).

Rob

You allow a woman to teach???? That's unbiblical regardless of her skill it is forbidden in the scripture. A woman is not to teach or have authority over a man writes Paul to Timothy.

Present church they cannot teach period.

Last church thy could not teach but they could lead worship.