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'SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT' THE EVIL FACING AMERICA Part One

poncho

Well-Known Member
I'm obviously not a believer in conspiracy theories. I don't have enough faith in humans to cooperate to the extent required by theories suggested to pull them off.

Regarding the media, they definitely come with their spins and biases. Everyone does. And the consolidation of media ownership is a concern. But I think simple human greed prevents them from cooperating the way conspiracy theorists suggest.
Well then I'll try and explain my reasons for believing there is. In a word...compartmentalization. Big word eh? :D

There are those at the very top that understand the whole program that hand down different parts of the plan to the next level down who are seperated by walls or compartments that do not readily share information with other. In this way information always flows down but never wholly revealed to next level down, this process is repeated until the plan can no longer be recognized for what is it to those on the very bottom that may very well be well intentioned individuals or organizations that push each small part as a plan or agenda unto itself.

If you have a federal reserve note (dollar bill) handy look at the back. See that pyramid structure with the all seeing eye with all the points of light coming from it? That is a picture of a power structure with the smallest group of the most "enlightened" at the very top desending downwards to to a very broad base of well intentioned but unenlightened at the bottom.


Regarding globalization, I don't understand how poncho can call it communist. I see globalization as the brain-child and of most benefit to capitalist corporate American and to a lesser extent, Europe.
Then I guess you haven't read this yet. I know it's alot to ask but if you could spend the next few nights reading the articles on Joan's website she will explain it to you much better than I can. While doing so keep in mind how many of the planks of the communist manefesto are already in place in the laws of the United States. ;)

I'll be back later but tonight I'm kind of computered out. ;)
 

Gold Dragon

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by poncho:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Regarding globalization, I don't understand how poncho can call it communist. I see globalization as the brain-child and of most benefit to capitalist corporate American and to a lesser extent, Europe.
Then I guess you haven't read this yet. I know it's alot to ask but if you could spend the next few nights reading the articles on Joan's website she will explain it to you much better than I can.</font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for pointing me out to that amusing article, poncho. I think one of this Joan person's articles is a enough to get the idea. I guess it would be funnier if it wasn't so sad that intelligent people like yourself actually believe this stuff. I guess when the human mind wants to believe something, it is very powerful and creative in finding ways to justify it.

I know you pity me for buying into the propoganda of "The Man" and I guess I'm just going to have to pay the consequences of ignoring conspiracy theorists and their warnings. Thanks for doing your part in trying to save me from the error of my ways. I know you mean well.
 

poncho

Well-Known Member
Well we're in the middle of a big snow storm here so this looks like a good time to reply to more of EL's posts.

Btw, whether one believes in "conspiracy theories" or not isn't what this thread is about. It's about sustaibable development and what it means for America.

Where was I? Okay.

That's their gain, and our loss. It is reducing poverty faster than all the years of direct handouts from the U.N. and NGOs. That builds up a class of formerly poor people who want what we want -- material possessions.
I'm not skipping over the other parts of your post EL it's just easier for me to address it all from this point.

Poverty isn't being reduced so much as the wealth of formerly industrialized societies is being redistributed by the UN's and now WEFORUMS socialistic programs. The United States of America is being deindustrialized by the global money powers and other societies like China and India are being industrialized.

This is building a middle class where none existed before and that isn't a bad thing, but it's all being done at our expence. We're the ones that will ultimately foot the bill. Now this may sound selfish so I'll ask you who does it benefit when one society falls and another is built from the redistributed wealth of the former?

Certain people that want the material benefits of wealth in those societies may benefit for a short period as in the growing middle class of India. But, those same people will be left in the lurch as Americans are today when the investment opportunities start to run out for the elite or better opportunities for investment present themselves.

In the end and this is the plan behind Agenda 21 sustainable development and all the free trade agreements is that all the wealth and resources including the people are harmonized. What does harmonization mean to the globalists?

Agenda 21 which is a complete reordering of the planet. It basically elevates the earth above the value of man as man’s value is dependent on if he or she can produce. It basically says that the earth’s resources need to be counted, controlled, and monitored for future generations.
SOURCE

Why does she say it "elevates the earth above the value of man" which is opposite of what God has said?

At the heart of Agenda 21 is sustainable development which supports “highest and best use” of the world’s resources which includes you and me. As a result of Agenda 21’s, Biological Diversity Treaty, man needs to be sequestered into growth areas.
SOURCE

Reading further we find out more about "highest and best use"...Kelo vs New London remember that SCOTUS decision?

In 2005, personal property rights, the cornerstone of American civilization, were dealt a severe blow with the Supreme Court Kelo vs. New London ruling which says that the city had the right to use eminent domain to force highest and best use of property that would create jobs and increase tax revenue for the public good. Around the U.S., the use of eminent domain is gaining popularity. Now everyone’s home and property is at risk.

&lt;snip&gt;

The New Urbanism encompasses the sustainable philosophy of highest and best use. Therefore, if there are key neighborhoods that can be rebuilt to attract businesses: hotels, office buildings, convention centers to bring in more tax revenues, those neighborhoods will be subject to eminent domain. The plans drawn up by the Congress for New Urbanism also use regional or metro government as well as public-private partnerships.
Begining to see how all this ties in to communisim yet? Regional government, highest and best use, sustainablity, reordering and redistributing, etc.

Not only can you be forced off your land if a developer that has the money to influence local goverment sees fit but they can also charge you "back rent" if you refuse to sell it to them. They can also condemn your house because they are planning to tear it down and replace it anyway and reduce it's market value so they can give you next to nothing for it. Great racket eh? Who benefits from "highest and best use"?


Now lets talk with Joan about Bio diversity a little bit.

Part of the Agenda 21 is Biodiversity which is a phrase coined to describe the variety of the genes, species and ecosystem found on our planet. It embraces all life forms, from plant and

animal life to micro-organisms and the water, land and air in which they live and interact....Al Gore wrote in his book,

Earth in the Balance, "We must make the rescue of the environment the central organizing principle for civilization,...use every policy and program, every law and institution, every treaty and alliance, every tactic and strategy, every plan and course of action...to halt the destruction of the environment and to preserve...our ecological system." It was move 50% of the surface land in America into protected "ecosystems" There are 47

biospheres in the US occupying over 43.5 million acres of land.
SOURCE

Will you and I be allowed to live in these biospheres? Nope. That's explained I believe by the use of the term "rewilding" ever hear of that before?

The Rewilding Project is brought to us from the United Nations. A relevant tentacle of Agenda 21, the Rewilding Project is designed to restore a major portion of the planet to its 'original' state before man came along and messed it all up; however, it could not be happening if it were not being implemented by state and local legislation. State legislation creates the agencies that mirror federal agencies which were created to implement the schemes emanating from the UN; those Federal agencies would include Forestry and Fish and Wildlife.
SOURCE

The Agenda 21 document contains 40 chapters which address issues that range from controlling water, land, air, and minerals, to policy recommendations for disposal of toxic and hazardous wastes, to technology management and transfer. There are many other facets of the program including managing the role of women and children, and the role of indigenous people in the process.

In short, it is an all-encompassing, revolutionary plan for controlling the entire population of earth, marketed under the slick packaging of environmental and ecological necessity.

One only has to read the first couple of chapters to begin to get the sense of the socialist roots of the plan. It calls on all "developed" countries, such as the United States, to come to the aid of "developing" countries. In other words, the playing field is to be leveled. The rich, industrialized countries will help fund the destitute, impoverished countries, transferring the technology and wealth necessary to achieve sustainable development.

It is the obvious opinion of these global marxists, that humans are the scourge of the earth. They contend that we are destroying everything around us. If we are not stopped, they lament, future generations will be doomed to live in world-wide poverty, while not being able to enjoy a vast eco-system, clean air, clean water, etc.

In other words, your human activity must be significantly curtailed, or — to be more blunt — every aspect of your life must be controlled, with a heavy hand, to ensure that you are not going to jeopardize the earth's blessings for future generations.

Ironically, the very essence of the program will rob future generations of their ability to enjoy the fullness of the earth and its resources, if its architects are successful in achieving their goals. It is the goal of these designers to place a large majority of the earth off limits to human beings, with the population being crammed into sustainable communities, where nearly everything a resident needs will be within a 5 mile radius (so automobiles will be unnecessary).

It will also rob future generations of their ability to own and control the land, which is the foundation of all individual liberty.

Already, we are seeing massive areas of land being placed under restrictions called "conservation easements", "scenic byways", "protected areas", "biosphere reserves", "wildlife refuges", etc. The names are varied and plentiful, but the result is always the same: More government control; less human freedom.

This brings us back to rewilding, or as they call it "The Wildlands Project".

The following was taken from the official site of the Wildlands Project. It is their official mission statement.

As you read it, remember that it is God who created the earth and all that lives therein. It has survived human activity for hundreds of years. These revolutionary marxists believe they own it all, and will use the perceived need for its "protection" to control you. They are bold in their statements of intention, and they are working to execute the many aspects of their plan on a daily basis. Their actions beacon you to prayerfully consider what you can do to educate yourself and others to stop their liberty-robbing agenda from being implemented.
SOURCE

Step by step, piece by piece, the Wildlands Project is coming to fruition. The Project, foundational to the U.N.Biodiversity Treaty which was never ratified by the U.S. Senate, calls for approximately 50 percent of the United States to be set aside as "wildlands", where no human can enter. Much has been accomplished over the past 10 years toward that goal, and the pace is stepping up, with the help of the federal agencies under Clinton/Gore.
SOURCE

And now Bush and Cheney. So what do you think so far...is Agenda 21 and sustainable development as good for us all as it sounds on it's face?

Here's another link to information if anyone is curious about all this and wants read more about it.

http://www.amerikanexpose.com/agenda21/

Well, that's about enough for today I reckon.
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poncho

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by poncho:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Regarding globalization, I don't understand how poncho can call it communist. I see globalization as the brain-child and of most benefit to capitalist corporate American and to a lesser extent, Europe.
Then I guess you haven't read this yet. I know it's alot to ask but if you could spend the next few nights reading the articles on Joan's website she will explain it to you much better than I can.</font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for pointing me out to that amusing article, poncho. I think one of this Joan person's articles is a enough to get the idea. I guess it would be funnier if it wasn't so sad that intelligent people like yourself actually believe this stuff. I guess when the human mind wants to believe something, it is very powerful and creative in finding ways to justify it.

I know you pity me for buying into the propoganda of "The Man" and I guess I'm just going to have to pay the consequences of ignoring conspiracy theorists and their warnings. Thanks for doing your part in trying to save me from the error of my ways. I know you mean well.
</font>[/QUOTE]Now now Gold Dragon let's not even go there okay, I did promise to be as responsible as I could in this thread. I reckon that inlcudes not being goaded into another argument about so called silly conspiracy theories. If you can prove me or any of the points I'm attempting to make wrong then please by all means do so.

You can choose to believe whatever you want to believe that's fine by me. If you want to add something to this thread besides jibes and ridcule I'll welcome it and try to responsibly discuss it with you. But if all you have in mind is to make fun of me for looking deeper than a title of a single article or document I'm just going to ignore you from this point on. Fair enough?


What is that smell btw? Is that fear? Are you afraid of reading more of Joan's articles? I think maybe you are. :D

If that's the case it's probably best you didn't read anymore of it.
laugh.gif
 

elijah_lives

New Member
Poverty isn't being reduced so much as the wealth of formerly industrialized societies is being redistributed by the UN's and now WEFORUMS socialistic programs. The United States of America is being deindustrialized by the global money powers and other societies like China and India are being industrialized.

Good point, poncho. We're already seeing investment move out of some of the Pacific Rim countries (Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand) into "lower-tier" countries (Vietnam, Indonesia, India, etc.) where production and labor costs are lower. In theory, I guess, it would move across the face of the planet until there's no where else to go; in practice, changes in geopolitics, resource utilization, and productivity will always be in flux, providing an environment where "the grass is always greener" somewhere else. There will always be a mismatch between resource needs and supplies, and new technologies can seriously alter any "equilibrium" attained. Eventually, the high cost of oil will result in new alternatives and better efficiencies; those nations blessed with oil now will be without customers in fifteen or twenty years. (Now that's something to look forward to!)

The Kelo decision was absolutely revolutionary. It undermines the very basis of our society -- the presumption that one can enjoy the fruits of one's labor (property rights). I don't know any serious person who opposes the use of eminent domain where the common good has been established and the public use is open to all. But the idea that it can be used to redistribute property from one private owner to another is heresy. It is "legal" theft, and exposes one class of society (property owners) to the whims of another (government in collusion with non -property owners). It's bad enough that it can enrich a corporation at the expense of grandma, but think through the implications. If the majority were landless, what's to stop them from seizing the property of landowners, and redistributing it for the "common good", like in Zimbabwe?

I call it "theft" because the value of a property is, in theory, determined by what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller; in this case, only one party to the transaction is willing. What, then, is the "fair" market value? Whatever government determines it to be!

Let's go a step further, and hypothesize that the ownership of ABC Food Company ("ABC Foods") would "serve the public good" better if it was in the hands of the state. Since shares of stock represent ownership of the company, what's to stop the state from using a process similar to eminent domain to "ascertain" the fair market value of those shares (whatever the state says it is) and then seize those shares, along with the company assets, in exchange for "compensation"? Or transferring those shares to another private party?

How the SCOTUS read all of this into our Constitution, I don't know. But I see it paving the way for redistributing property in any way a social "visionary" sees fit. The cultural elite already think that they can manage our resources better than we can, and Kelo gives them the tools to do so.

Earth in the Balance, "We must make the rescue of the environment the central organizing principle for civilization,...use every policy and program, every law and institution, every treaty and alliance, every tactic and strategy, every plan and course of action...to halt the destruction of the environment and to preserve...our ecological system." It was move 50% of the surface land in America into protected "ecosystems" There are 47 biospheres in the US occupying over 43.5 million acres of land.

This is an uncontestable threat that's been around since the 1970's, I think. No argument there. And it certainly is not the way I would define "biodiversity"; I don't know if I can define it. It's more of an attitude, to me -- trying to work in cooperation with nature, instead of controlling it. It manifests itself in an attempt to get multiple use of resources in agriculture, for example, without impairing the environment. I think the Gores would be satisfied to outsource agriculture overseas, depopulate all the farming communities (pushing us into the city -- or suicide, whichever "choice" we want), and "returning the land to nature." It completely ignores property rights, makes assumptions about ecology which are fallacious, and actually makes damage to the environment worse , I think, because high population densities are the source of major pollution.

My experience has been that smaller property owners make better stewards of the land than do larger property owners, and private property owners manage land better than public property owners. The former should be encouraged, and the latter discouraged. They also form the basis of thriving, rural communities that put less of a load on the environment, due to lower densities, and make it easier to decentralize government, countering the current tendency towards heirarchical consolidation. Local control is better than bureaucratic control from Washington, D.C.

Concentrating us in cities makes it easier for someone (or a group of "someones") to control us, because everything needed has to be imported into cities, or supplied by government. It feeds dependency upon government (look what happened in New Orleans!) I suppose there is a little "conspiracy thinking" in all of us, and stuffing us in cities fits the bill, for me. Doesn't mean it will happen, but the military trained me to think "worst-case scenario", and that's one of the worst I can think of!

It seems to me that we were originally protected from all of this because 1) Property owners were most of the voters; 2) The state was expected to balance power by appointing members to the Senate, rather than popular election; and 3) Federal power was limited. All of these conditions no longer exist.

I did promise to be as responsible as I could in this thread.

And you've kept your word, poncho. I'm glad to be able to exchange ramblings without having to duck for cover! Good for you! BTW, no further heart damage. Still can't do much due to spinal damage, but there's nothing they can do for that but medicate me.
 
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