Sympathy for the Arminian Part 2

[Protestant]

It’s not easy being of the Arminian persuasion. Perpetual kicking against the goads must smart. Explaining away the Bible truths declared by the Lord Almighty despite its clear and consistent teaching takes much time, effort, and eisegetical gymnastics.

“God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life”, they preach. However, if by your own free will you refuse to ask Jesus into your heart, then push comes to shove, that all-loving God will have no other choice but to burn you, body and soul, in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone……where you will have no relief…..forever.

Even unbelievers discern the inconsistency of the message. It’s the message of a Bi-Polar Deity.

In order to stay true to his theology, the ardent Arminian must also believe that God loves all of Hell’s population…..the end result being it matters not if God loves you, for you, too, may end up in Hell. If only God’s love was actually efficacious to save, then all the world would be saved! But alas, such is not the case in the Arminian theological system.

There are further hurdles over which the Arminians must jump.
They claim John 3:16 proves the love of God for every individual in the world. They also acknowledge the truth of God’s immutability. By combining these two propositions they must conclude that God had a strange way of showing His love to the world when He destroyed every human being (but eight) by drowning in the days of Noah. For if He loves every human now, He loved every human then. For God does not change.

Another mountain the faithful Arminian must climb is the mountain populated with innumerable Heathen who have never heard of Jesus or His Gospel. The Very Reverend Billy Graham recognized this difficulty, so in order to prove God’s love for all mankind, he has developed another Gospel……the Gospel of salvation by means other than faith in Christ. The Apostle Paul had much to say concerning those who preach another Gospel.

No. It’s not easy being an Arminian.

And finally, consider how difficult it is for the Arminian to maintain a humble, servile attitude despite his infallible belief that it was his free will decision which made the difference in his salvation. Yes, Arminians made good and holy use of their free will while their sinful neighbors, co-workers and lost family members did not. If only those sinners had the righteous qualities to make good use of their free will, as did the Arminians.

In the mind of the Arminian, his god is just, having no favorites, respecting no persons, allowing all mankind to make their own decision as to their eternal destiny.

But always remember, the Arminian declares, God loved you before you went to Hell and God loves you after you go to Hell. Isn’t that comforting?

No. It’s not easy being an Arminian.

 

[webdog]

Troll:BangHead:

 

[Gorship]

It’s not easy being of the Calvin persuasion. Perpetual kicking against the goads must smart. Explaining away the Bible truths declared by the Lord Almighty despite its clear and consistent teaching takes much time, effort, and eisegetical gymnastics.

“God loves some of you and has givin you no chance to make any choices”, they preach. However, if god decides for you to refuse to ask Jesus into your heart, then push comes to shove, that all-loving God will have no other choice but to burn you, body and soul, in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone……where you will have no relief…..forever.

Even unbelievers discern the inconsistency of the message. It’s the message of a Bi-Polar Deity.

In order to stay true to his theology, the ardent calvinist must also believe that God creates people to fill Hell’s population…..the end result being it matters not if God loves you, for you, too, may end up in Hell. If only God’s love was actually efficacious to save, then all the world would be saved! But alas, such is not the case in the Calvin theological system.

There are further hurdles over which the Calvin must jump.
They claim John 3:16 proves the love of God for every individual in the world. They also acknowledge the truth of God’s immutability. By combining these two propositions they must conclude that God had a strange way of showing His love to the world when He destroyed every human being (but eight) by drowning in the days of Noah. For if He loves every human now, He loved every human then. For God does not change.

Another mountain the faithful Calvin must climb is the mountain populated with innumerable Heathen who have never heard of Jesus or His Gospel. The Very Reverend Billy Graham recognized this difficulty, so in order to prove God’s love for all mankind, he has developed another Gospel……the Gospel of salvation by means other than faith in Christ. The Apostle Paul had much to say concerning those who preach another Gospel.

No. It’s not easy being a Calvinist.

And finally, consider how difficult it is for the Calvinist to maintain a humble, servile attitude despite his infallible belief that it was his free will decision which made the difference in his salvation. Yes, Calvinists made good and holy use of their determined will while their sinful neighbors, co-workers and lost family members did not. If only those sinners were created by a God that desired for them to be saved too.

In the mind of the Calvin, his god is just, having no favorites, respecting no persons, allowing all mankind to make their own decision as to their eternal destiny.

But always remember, the Calvinists declares, God never loved you before you went to Hell and God never tried to save you before you went to Hell. Isn’t that comforting?

No. It’s not easy being an Calvinist.

 

[Inspector Javert]

Troll:BangHead:

Perhaps....albeit, not a particularly talented one, in that, I think most Arms will read this diatribe and then simply think:

"huh....", "meh....." "whatever..." :sleeping_2:

 

[SovereignMercy]

It’s not easy being of the Calvin persuasion. Perpetual kicking against the goads must smart. Explaining away the Bible truths declared by the Lord Almighty despite its clear and consistent teaching takes much time, effort, and eisegetical gymnastics.

“God loves some of you and has givin you no chance to make any choices”, they preach. However, if god decides for you to refuse to ask Jesus into your heart, then push comes to shove, that all-loving God will have no other choice but to burn you, body and soul, in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone……where you will have no relief…..forever.

Even unbelievers discern the inconsistency of the message. It’s the message of a Bi-Polar Deity.

In order to stay true to his theology, the ardent calvinist must also believe that God creates people to fill Hell’s population…..the end result being it matters not if God loves you, for you, too, may end up in Hell. If only God’s love was actually efficacious to save, then all the world would be saved! But alas, such is not the case in the Calvin theological system.

There are further hurdles over which the Calvin must jump.
They claim John 3:16 proves the love of God for every individual in the world. They also acknowledge the truth of God’s immutability. By combining these two propositions they must conclude that God had a strange way of showing His love to the world when He destroyed every human being (but eight) by drowning in the days of Noah. For if He loves every human now, He loved every human then. For God does not change.

Another mountain the faithful Calvin must climb is the mountain populated with innumerable Heathen who have never heard of Jesus or His Gospel. The Very Reverend Billy Graham recognized this difficulty, so in order to prove God’s love for all mankind, he has developed another Gospel……the Gospel of salvation by means other than faith in Christ. The Apostle Paul had much to say concerning those who preach another Gospel.

No. It’s not easy being a Calvinist.

And finally, consider how difficult it is for the Calvinist to maintain a humble, servile attitude despite his infallible belief that it was his free will decision which made the difference in his salvation. Yes, Calvinists made good and holy use of their determined will while their sinful neighbors, co-workers and lost family members did not. If only those sinners were created by a God that desired for them to be saved too.

In the mind of the Calvin, his god is just, having no favorites, respecting no persons, allowing all mankind to make their own decision as to their eternal destiny.

But always remember, the Calvinists declares, God never loved you before you went to Hell and God never tried to save you before you went to Hell. Isn’t that comforting?

No. It’s not easy being an Calvinist.

Actually it's pretty easy. Once you have the Holy Spirit you just quote scripture in context.

As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated." What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As He says also in Hosea: " I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved." "And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, ' You are not My people,' There they shall be called sons of the living God."

 

[The Archangel]

Actually it's pretty easy. Once you have the Holy Spirit you just quote scripture in context.

<Grabs popcorn and riot gear...waits for the show to start...>

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

<Grabs popcorn and riot gear...waits for the show to start...>

You are beginning to remind me of Willis! Actually id agree withSM.

 

[convicted1]

How is Protestant allowed to post threads liks this, and get away with it? Threads like this offer nothing in regards to edification.

 

[convicted1]

<Grabs popcorn and riot gear...waits for the show to start...>

 

[convicted1]

Actually it's pretty easy. Once you have the Holy Spirit you just quote scripture in context.

As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated." What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As He says also in Hosea: " I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved." "And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, ' You are not My people,' There they shall be called sons of the living God."

Brother, I agree with your post here, but that first line was totally unnecessary.

 

[convicted1]

It’s not easy being of the Calvin persuasion. Perpetual kicking against the goads must smart. Explaining away the Bible truths declared by the Lord Almighty despite its clear and consistent teaching takes much time, effort, and eisegetical gymnastics.

“God loves some of you and has givin you no chance to make any choices”, they preach. However, if god decides for you to refuse to ask Jesus into your heart, then push comes to shove, that all-loving God will have no other choice but to burn you, body and soul, in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone……where you will have no relief…..forever.

Even unbelievers discern the inconsistency of the message. It’s the message of a Bi-Polar Deity.

In order to stay true to his theology, the ardent calvinist must also believe that God creates people to fill Hell’s population…..the end result being it matters not if God loves you, for you, too, may end up in Hell. If only God’s love was actually efficacious to save, then all the world would be saved! But alas, such is not the case in the Calvin theological system.

There are further hurdles over which the Calvin must jump.
They claim John 3:16 proves the love of God for every individual in the world. They also acknowledge the truth of God’s immutability. By combining these two propositions they must conclude that God had a strange way of showing His love to the world when He destroyed every human being (but eight) by drowning in the days of Noah. For if He loves every human now, He loved every human then. For God does not change.

Another mountain the faithful Calvin must climb is the mountain populated with innumerable Heathen who have never heard of Jesus or His Gospel. The Very Reverend Billy Graham recognized this difficulty, so in order to prove God’s love for all mankind, he has developed another Gospel……the Gospel of salvation by means other than faith in Christ. The Apostle Paul had much to say concerning those who preach another Gospel.

No. It’s not easy being a Calvinist.

And finally, consider how difficult it is for the Calvinist to maintain a humble, servile attitude despite his infallible belief that it was his free will decision which made the difference in his salvation. Yes, Calvinists made good and holy use of their determined will while their sinful neighbors, co-workers and lost family members did not. If only those sinners were created by a God that desired for them to be saved too.

In the mind of the Calvin, his god is just, having no favorites, respecting no persons, allowing all mankind to make their own decision as to their eternal destiny.

But always remember, the Calvinists declares, God never loved you before you went to Hell and God never tried to save you before you went to Hell. Isn’t that comforting?

No. It’s not easy being an Calvinist.

And this post, too, wasn't necessary. But I understand why you posted it. This thread needs closed pronto, Tonto.

 

[SovereignMercy]

So, it's okay for you to judge us, but not okay for us to judge anyone else?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So, it's okay for you to judge us, but not okay for us to judge anyone else?

SM....thats the whole point of this scripture "Matthew 7:1-3

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And this post, too, wasn't necessary. But I understand why you posted it. This thread needs closed pronto, Tonto.

Again brother we should rejoice in our theological stance, because if it wasnt for predestination, the whole human family would have been lost forever. What they tend to leave out of these myrad discussions (more appropriately food fights) is that Predestination is not the thing that condemns a man, or puts him in a ruined condition, but the very thing that gets him out of such a state. Predestination concerns not "what" but "whom." It is the great purpose of God to lift a people up from sin and corruption and make them like Jesus Christ. That's glorious & this is what our understanding of Scripture reveals.

But I would also stress that the foundation of the free offering of the Gospel is NOT election, it is Christs promise to save all who come to Him in belief.

Why is that not being stressed here? Again you will not find a true Christian who will deny that Jesus Christ is able to save all who come to Him in belief. Therefore we should all be preaching Christ Crucified & bringing that to the world! At least, thats what we are commanded to do.

Now I will step off my soap box. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Revmitchell]

Brother, I agree with your post here, but that first line was totally unnecessary.

It is exactly what we are used to with cals.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It is exactly what we are used to with cals.

And that in it self was an unnecessary remark. Non Calvinist hands are not clean here either.....but I concur with Willis, close the darn thread.....its a lightning rod for controversy vs a device to bring Christians together.

Personally it should not be tolerated by anyone, now & in the future.

 

[convicted1]

So, it's okay for you to judge us, but not okay for us to judge anyone else?

"What God has cleanesed, call thou not common". We need to be careful with how we treat our fellow Brethern. Reread the OP, and the OP's title, and it's just something that will incite those who view things differently than we do. We can debate minus the hate.

 

[convicted1]

Again brother we should rejoice in our theological stance, because if it wasnt for predestination, the whole human family would have been lost forever. What they tend to leave out of these myrad discussions (more appropriately food fights) is that Predestination is not the thing that condemns a man, or puts him in a ruined condition, but the very thing that gets him out of such a state. Predestination concerns not "what" but "whom." It is the great purpose of God to lift a people up from sin and corruption and make them like Jesus Christ. That's glorious & this is what our understanding of Scripture reveals.

But I would also stress that the foundation of the free offering of the Gospel is NOT election, it is Christs promise to save all who come to Him in belief.

Why is that not being stressed here? Again you will not find a true Christian who will deny that Jesus Christ is able to save all who come to Him in belief. Therefore we should all be preaching Christ Crucified & bringing that to the world! At least, thats what we are commanded to do.

Now I will step off my soap box. :smilewinkgrin:

I agree 100%... :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[convicted1]

Isaiah 5:25 Therefore is the anger of the Lord kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them: and the hills did tremble, and their carcases were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.


Isaiah 9:12 The Syrians before, and the Philistines behind; and they shall devour Israel with open mouth. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.


Isaiah 9:17 Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.


Isaiah 9:21 Manasseh, Ephraim; and Ephraim, Manasseh: and they together shall be against Judah. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.


Isaiah 10:4 Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

Election is all about those whom God has chosen out of a fallen world. Without it, not one lost soul would ever be saved. Without it, not one would be desirious of Him.

Romans 10:16-21

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.


God stretched forth His hands, and none were willing to come. Therefore, He elected/chose us according to His good will, and good pleasure, to save a people in Christ from before the world.

 

[webdog]

Isaiah 5:25 Therefore is the anger of the Lord kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them: and the hills did tremble, and their carcases were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.


Isaiah 9:12 The Syrians before, and the Philistines behind; and they shall devour Israel with open mouth. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.


Isaiah 9:17 Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.


Isaiah 9:21 Manasseh, Ephraim; and Ephraim, Manasseh: and they together shall be against Judah. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.


Isaiah 10:4 Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

Election is all about those whom God has chosen out of a fallen world. Without it, not one lost soul would ever be saved. Without it, not one would be desirious of Him.

Romans 10:16-21

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.


God stretched forth His hands, and none were willing to come. Therefore, He elected/chose us according to His good will, and good pleasure, to save a people in Christ from before the world.

So a god who didn't atone for them somehow made an appeal to come, knowing fully they couldn't, and then reacted accordingly based on their actions? Willis, how do you go from having a solid theology to a completely illogical and impossible one