Syncretism

[SolaSaint]

Hi All,

I just heard about a conference being held in Texas next month that at first sounds like a good thing:http://dfw.undergodindivisible.org/

I was interested when I heard Dr. Jeremiah and Ravi Zacharias were both speaking. Then I listened to Brannon House today and he tells who all is sharing the stage with Ravi and Dr. Jeremiah and it will shock you, or it should. John Hagee, Kenneth Copeland will join with several Catholics and Ken Hamm and Richard Land and many more. It is a leadership conference and they state up front they have differences but are hoping to gather and speak about common interests.

Is this OK or what would be considered Syncretism? I was shocked to see Dr. Jeremiah on TBN with Paul Crouch and I really don't understand Zacharias, he seemed to me to be a rock of orthodox doctrine in the world of apologetics and now he is going to share the pulpit with Kenneth Copeland. House states this conference is in connection with Glenn Becks conferences?

All doesn't seem right in Christendom to me or am I just over reacting to something that should be oky doky?

 

[freeatlast]

Hi All,

I just heard about a conference being held in Texas next month that at first sounds like a good thing:http://dfw.undergodindivisible.org/

I was interested when I heard Dr. Jeremiah and Ravi Zacharias were both speaking. Then I listened to Brannon House today and he tells who all is sharing the stage with Ravi and Dr. Jeremiah and it will shock you, or it should. John Hagee, Kenneth Copeland will join with several Catholics and Ken Hamm and Richard Land and many more. It is a leadership conference and they state up front they have differences but are hoping to gather and speak about common interests.

Is this OK or what would be considered Syncretism? I was shocked to see Dr. Jeremiah on TBN with Paul Crouch and I really don't understand Zacharias, he seemed to me to be a rock of orthodox doctrine in the world of apologetics and now he is going to share the pulpit with Kenneth Copeland. House states this conference is in connection with Glenn Becks conferences?

All doesn't seem right in Christendom to me or am I just over reacting to something that should be oky doky?

2Tim 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Or to sum it up, compromise. What they are missing is that it is not the nation that needs to return to God. It is the church.

 

[SolaSaint]

Well said, It seems the church has lost it's ability to discern between light and darkness.

 

[freeatlast]

Well said, It seems the church has lost it's ability to discern between light and darkness.

I am afraid it is more serious then that. The church for the most part is not interested in the light. :tear:

 

[preachinjesus]

Is this OK or what would be considered Syncretism?

This isn't syncretism.

Syncretism is when a religion draws on external worldviews, religions, philosophies, and cultural practices to combine with their religion. For instance (a biblical example) in Jesus day an example of syncretism is the Hellenists. These were Jews who took philosophical concepts of Greek culture, aspects of their religious worldview, and cultural values and blended them with Judaism. They did this to accomodate themselves with Greeks (well...then Romans in Jesus day) so they could make money. Syncretism never deals with internal religious pluralism.

What you're seeing is an example of ecumenicism where people from diverse denominational backgrounds partner together in ministry.

If you're a fundamentalist you'd call this a violation of secondary separation.

FTR, I have little problem with overcoming (or putting away) denominational boundaries for common ministry. Jesus didn't start this thing so we'd have 67 varieties of Baptists, and 1200 different types of Protestant.

All doesn't seem right in Christendom to me or am I just over reacting to something that should be oky doky?

Meh, I don't put much stock in conferences. They all end up becoming a giant book sale and play up the celebritification of Christianity which I think is killing evangelicalism.

I wouldn't go to the conference personally. One of the major reasons is I don't think God has uniquely chosen the US to be the arbiter of His revelation to the world. (which will come up) That said I think this is a pretty great line up of speakers (which would be more attractive if you got rid of a couple of them.)

 

[Berean]

I will have to think this through. Is this an evangelistic crusade, an effort to thwart the advance of usurption of our freedoms or just another meeting? There are as many differances in this groups theology as there are in the politics a meeting of UN Delagates.

 

[HankD]

Christ will take the initiative when the time is right:

Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
...
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just.

HankD​

 

[preacher4truth]

New Age ideologies have infiltrated the church for quite a while now. The light of 'the cosmic Christ' is becoming increasingly acceptable (by those who at one time held to truth and exclusivity cf. John 14:6) no matter what religion or heretical 'Christian' stance one has. Tolerance is the newer other gospel, and stands opposed to the biblical Gospel. The Biblical Gospel was never popular and always offensive (1 Cor. 1:17, 18) due to it's exclusivity and is being rejected or at the most accepted as only a part of truth, a spoke in the wheel leading to a hub where all religions synthesize.

Syncretism is on the rise and will naturally merge with synthesism and those who hold to the exclusive truth (the Gospel) will continue to be ridiculed and rejected. Some baptists preach no gospel is necessary for salvation, simply one comes to understand he has light in him, can even reject and have animosity toward Christ of Scripture, disbelieve in Him, worship other gods (which are literally demons by the way, cf. 1 Cor. 10:20) yet to them are still going to heaven and are his sheep, and in turn many roads to God and yes another gospel therein is preached which flies in the face of John 14:6. Thus these will welcome this false view and demonic religion with open arms.

 

[kyredneck]

Christ will take the initiative when the time is right:

Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
...
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just.

HankD​

Already happened:

"so shall it be in the full end of the age, the messengers shall come forth and separate the evil out of the midst of the righteous"

11 And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven:
12 but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Mt 8

20 Well; by their unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 for if God spared not the natural branches, neither will he spare thee.
22 Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God`s goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Ro 11

 

[HankD]

Already happened:

"so shall it be in the full end of the age, the messengers shall come forth and separate the evil out of the midst of the righteous"

11 And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven:
12 but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Mt 8

20 Well; by their unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 for if God spared not the natural branches, neither will he spare thee.
22 Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God`s goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Ro 11

That sounds like preterism? Am I wrong?

Do you equate the "harvest" of Matthew 13:30 as occuring in AD70?

Thanks
HankD

 

[Yeshua1]

That sounds like preterism? Am I wrong?

Do you equate the "harvest" of Matthew 13:30 as occuring in AD70?

Thanks
HankD

Still waiting for the "Historical proof' that the Lord had raptured out and glorifed the early Church saints!

 

[Yeshua1]

Hi All,

I just heard about a conference being held in Texas next month that at first sounds like a good thing:http://dfw.undergodindivisible.org/

I was interested when I heard Dr. Jeremiah and Ravi Zacharias were both speaking. Then I listened to Brannon House today and he tells who all is sharing the stage with Ravi and Dr. Jeremiah and it will shock you, or it should. John Hagee, Kenneth Copeland will join with several Catholics and Ken Hamm and Richard Land and many more. It is a leadership conference and they state up front they have differences but are hoping to gather and speak about common interests.

Is this OK or what would be considered Syncretism? I was shocked to see Dr. Jeremiah on TBN with Paul Crouch and I really don't understand Zacharias, he seemed to me to be a rock of orthodox doctrine in the world of apologetics and now he is going to share the pulpit with Kenneth Copeland. House states this conference is in connection with Glenn Becks conferences?

All doesn't seem right in Christendom to me or am I just over reacting to something that should be oky doky?

Sign of the end times!

catholic and word of faith teachers with evangelicals...

catholics and Copeland both teach "doctrines of demons"

 

[HankD]

Still waiting for the "Historical proof' that the Lord had raptured out and glorifed the early Church saints!

I have never found evidence of preterism among the earliest of church fathers in their eschatology or recounts of the sack of Jerusalem AD70.
Not one. A couple even spanned AD70.

Pre-AD70 quotes don't matter of course.

They and others after them who wrote concerning eschatology all looked to a future visible return of the actual person of the Lord Jesus Christ and did not claim AD 70 as the fulfillment of the Second Coming.

Not that such would be conclusive but IMO it would add some credence to the full preterist view since the ECF quoted many of the traditional Second Coming passages as future events.

If such post-AD70 ECF preterists writings exist I would like a quote from a full preterist.


HankD

 

[Yeshua1]

I have never found evidence of preterism among the earliest of church fathers in their eschatology or recounts of the sack of Jerusalem AD70.
Not one. A couple even spanned AD70.

Pre-AD70 quotes don't matter of course.

They and others after them who wrote concerning eschatology all looked to a future visible return of the actual person of the Lord Jesus Christ and did not claim AD 70 as the fulfillment of the Second Coming.

Not that such would be conclusive but IMO it would add some credence to the full preterist view since the ECF quoted many of the traditional Second Coming passages as future events.

If such post-AD70 ECF preterists writings exist I would like a quote from a full preterist.


HankD

can Full Pretierists point to ANY reputable proof the Church belived second coming already has happened?

 

[HankD]

can Full Pretierists point to ANY reputable proof the Church belived second coming already has happened?

Apart from cultists (i.e. millerites), I don't think so, although I seem to remember that Tom claimed an ECF but when I looked into it, it seemed a stretch.

HankD

 

[kyredneck]

....Do you equate the "harvest" of Matthew 13:30 as occuring in AD70?....

Yes.

13:30 is synonymous with 3:10-12:

And even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees: every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire: whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his threshing-floor; and he will gather his wheat into the garner, but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire.

Just as 8:12 'sons of the kingdom cast forth' is synonymous with Ro 11 'natural branches broken off' is synonymous with 13:41 'gather out of his kingdom all things that cause stumbling' is synonymous with 13:49 'sever the wicked from among the righteous' is synonymous with 3:12 'thoroughly cleanse his threshing-floor'.

 

[HankD]

Yes.

13:30 is synonymous with 3:10-12:

And even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees: every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire: whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his threshing-floor; and he will gather his wheat into the garner, but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire.

Just as 8:12 'sons of the kingdom cast forth' is synonymous with Ro 11 'natural branches broken off' is synonymous with 13:41 'gather out of his kingdom all things that cause stumbling' is synonymous with 13:49 'sever the wicked from among the righteous' is synonymous with 3:12 'thoroughly cleanse his threshing-floor'.

Well, then that would mean that the harvest is over.

Jeremiah 8:20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.​

I believe we are presently in the gentile harvest time else why is the church being added to every day?​

I see the "end of the age" as pertaining to the ingathering of the gentiles which came after the judgement on national Israel and its leadership of Jesus day.​

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.​

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.​

To me this is the "age" of which Jesus spoke, the age of the gentiles who have and are continuing to be used as lining stones of which Jesus is building His church until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled.​

So I guess I am a kind of partial preterist futurist where national Israel has indeed been judged and the gentile nations are now coming.
The vail of blindness will be lifted from Israel eventually after the fulness of the elect gentiles have entered into the Abrahamic covenant.

The tares of Matthew 13 (IMO) are the pretenders, satan's masterpiece: The unsaved church member. These are to be judged at His Coming at the end of the gentile age.​

So kyredneck, do you see an end to this mortal earth with it's ongoing sin and death?​

Will sin and death go on forever into eternity or how do you see it ending and do you have scripture for that event?​

Thanks
HankD​

 

[DHK]

Hi All,
Is this OK or what would be considered Syncretism? I was shocked to see Dr. Jeremiah on TBN with Paul Crouch and I really don't understand Zacharias, he seemed to me to be a rock of orthodox doctrine in the world of apologetics and now he is going to share the pulpit with Kenneth Copeland. House states this conference is in connection with Glenn Becks conferences?

All doesn't seem right in Christendom to me or am I just over reacting to something that should be oky doky?

I would look at that as compromise on the part of the more conservative evangelicals and as ecumenism as a whole.

Isn't syncretism more like one religion adopting to the culture and even the tenets of another religion so that it changes its own religious doctrine in some fashion or way to win the others. "Syn" means come together as one.

For example, I have seen in Islamic nations Muslims bringing sacrifices such as goats or chickens to various saints. They claim, as the RCC claims, that they don't practice idolatry, but there it is.

In the same way the RCC claims they don't practice idolatry. But in the same Islamic nation where there is a day set aside to worship Mary, the small minority of Christians will flock from all over and worship this statue of Mary, even bringing chickens to offer before her.
Some Muslims, out of respect for Mary will do the same thing, or at least bow down to her and worship her, as do the rest of the "Christians."

Is not this syncretism? Muslims and Christians worshiping at the same god, each denying that they worship idols, but in reality committing the same sin.

 

[preachinjesus]

Like I said, this isn't syncretism. This is simply ecumenism.

 

[SolaSaint]

Wkipedia definition of Syncretism /ˈsɪŋkrətɪzəm/ is the combining of different (often contradictory) beliefs, often while melding practices of various schools of thought. Syncretism may involve the merger and analogising of several originally discrete traditions, especially in the theology and mythology of religion, thus asserting an underlying unity and allowing for an inclusive approach to other faiths.

I think it can be called either syncretism or ecumenism IMO.