How many points of TULIP do you believe
And let the arguments, opps, I mean discussion begin....
Salty
And let the arguments, opps, I mean discussion begin....
Salty
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T.u.l.i.p
- Thread starter Salty
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The Archangel
Well-Known Member
Please explain what you men when you say "I believe in 6 or more of the 5 points."
The Archangel
The Archangel
Not having read a definition for that "6 or more" I defined it myself to say that the TULIP does not accurately cover all that is entailed in the doctrines of grace.
I am a 4 Points Calvinist
quantumfaith
Active Member
"I am one point shy of being a calvinist" (Former pastor)
None of the inventions of modern man. I choose scripture.
What are you doing on BaptistBoard then? It is an invention of man too. All TULIP is is an attempted summary of essential scripture truth. I don't believe it goes far enough, but that is a different matter. But this board and the acronym TULIP are just based on what is in the Bible.
FR7 Baptist
Active Member
If someone is a zero-pointer, then he wouldn't be an Arminian. Arminians believe in total depravity just like Calvinists.
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A real, Wesleyan-Arminian would agree with the "T". But I've read several works by modern Baptists that oppose all 5 points. Most of them insist that man has the ability to believe. The Calvinist's "T" has man unable (inability) to believe until after the irresistable work of the Holy Spirit enable him. Most of today's Baptists, Evangelicals, Fundamentalists, Charismatics, cats, dogs, etc., are actually more like Pelagians than Arminians.
Most Baptists today believe in Calvin's salvation to keep them saved, but believe in Pelagius' salvation to get them saved.
FR7 Baptist
Active Member
I'm an Arminian with the caveat that I don't tend to believe it is possible for a true believer to cease having faith in Christ. I do believe that if, as a hypothetical, a true believer did finally lose faith, he would not be saved.
That's true, and very unfortunate.
That's an interesting caveat. Have you held to it for a long time?
FR7 Baptist
Active Member
I've probably had this position for a year and a half or so. I didn't really start thinking about this issue until I was about sixteen and it took me a couple of years and a lot of reading and studying the issue deeply to start to really form a semi-solid position. I'm not dogmatic about it as it's very complicated to sift through all the theological and philosophical issues involved.
The main reason for my caveat is that I believe that regeneration involves such a fundamental transformation in one's nature and disposition towards God that I find it difficult to believe that a person would forsake it. I do find it possible, in theory, to forsake Christ and thereby forfeit salvation, but I don't think it actually ever happens.
Tom Butler
New Member
I like ROSES, too. It is less in-your-face, without backing away from the doctrines of grace.
BTW, here are the ROSES
Radical depravity
Overcoming Grace
Sovereign Election
Eternal Life
Singular Redemption
For commentary on ROSES, Google Timothy George ROES and it'll flesh out the acronym.
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Timothy George stole (probably not intentionally) the acronym "ROSES" from Craig Skinner, FYI. Skinner developed a slightly different form of this alternative system, centered around his interpretation of Spurgeon's beliefs, long before George came up with it.
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