Take This Christian Music Test

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Frenchy:
I challenged you to look up any of the artist LYRICS listed (who cares how old they are?) nothings changed for the better since.

You forget, I already know their lyrics. I listened to their music for years and was involved in the concert promotion end of Christian music for years.

I'm already familiar with this music. That's how I know that you're full of it.

You're the one who said that REZ did songs about killing babies and songs that "glorify evil". Therefore, it's up to you to tell me what songs, not up to me to inventory their lyrics in the hope that something will stick.

and tell me if most of the songs you find can easily go on the secular radio station.


I guarentee that they CAN. that is the point you can not tell the diffrence between what is christian or secular, right there is a problem all in itself

What should the difference be?

[qb]

I do notice no one has gotten back to me on this issue so i must be right!

Maybe they're just ignoring you because there's no point in arguing with an ideologue.

Now Playing: Van Morrison – “Moondance”

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Magnetic Poles:
FWIW Mike, I kind of like seeing what is playing now!

I'm glad you enjoy that.

Very interesting how the most vocal anti-music people are those with the least knowledge of the industry and the artists.

That's why I get so frustrated with nuts like av1611.

It would be one thing if they put together a thoughtful and knowlegable essay, but how am I to take them seriously when they don't even know anyting about the music they're criticizing?

If they haven't taken the time to find out that the Doobie Brothers didn't originate "Jesus is Just Alright" or that the 77's didn't get "Nobody's Fault but Mine" (which is a Gospel song, no less!) from Led Zeppelin, then they shouldn't be commenting on them.

If they don't know what they're talking about, then why should I listen to them?

I'm still waiting for someone to point out the "New Age" content in the song "Big Yellow Taxi".

Now Playing: Nicolette Larson – “Nic of Time”

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Frenchy:
Exactly why i questioned his salvation and the fact the guys he plays music with don't have christian lyrics to any of their songs.

First of all, is that a Biblical basis to question my salvation? Because of something somebody else does?

Second, I don't know how you came to this conclusion, but here are a couple of lyrics from DS&HE:

There's folks building homes as sweet as can be
They're levelling their yards and planting their trees
But my little hut I'll just let it be
Lord Jesus is building a mansion for me

A mansion for me (a mansion for me)
A mansion for me (a mansion for me)
Built by my Lord beyond Calvary
But my little hut I'll just let it be
Lord Jesus is building a mansion for me

Each day I am getting more ready to go
He's cleansing my sins more whiter than snow
I'm packing my troubles I'm bound with his love
Get ready to move to Heaven above

To you who have homes in this world below
Driving fine cars wherever you go
There's coming a time when we'll all pass away
Get ready to move with me on that day

Praise God Who made the Heavens
Praise God Who made the seas
Since Jesus came into my life
He's made everything so right
I know because He's living in me

While kneeling by her beside in a cottage on the hill
My mother prayed her blessing for me there
She was talking then with Jesus whlie everything still
And I heard my mother call my name in prayer


Yes, I heard my mother call my name in prayer
She was pouring out her heart to Jesus there
Then I gave my heart to Him and He saved my soul from sin
For I heard my mother call my name in prayer

She was anxious for her boy to be just what he ought to be
And she asked the lord to take Him in His care
Just the worlds I can't remember but I know she preyer for me
For I heard my mother call my name in prayer

Then I gave my heart to Jesus and I'm living now for him
And someday I'll go and meet him in the air
For he heard my mother praying and he saved my soul from sin
Yes, he heard my mother call my name in prayer

The sun is slowly sinkin'
The day's almost gone
Still darkness falls around us
And we must journey on

The darkest hour is just before dawn
The narrow way leads home
Lay down your soul at Jesus' feet
The darkest hour is just before dawn

Like a shepherd out on the mountain
A-watchin' the sheep down below
He's coming back to claim us
Will you be ready to go

The darkest hour is just before dawn
The narrow way leads home
Lay down your soul
Let Jesus in
The darkest hour is just before dawn
The darkest hour is just before dawn

...and many other traditional and overt Gospel songs.

It's also important to note that I do play Gospel music on my radio show.

Jimmy Buffett – “Fruitcakes”

 

[Linda64]

So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. (John 21:15)

He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. (John 21:16)

He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep. (John 21:17)

I'm surprised that nobody has posted these verses since we are talking about loving Jesus.

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. (James 4:4)

How can anyone love Jesus more than these when they are loving the things of the world?

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Quote by Frenchy:
Funny thing is i can assume none of you that are for CCM has looked up any of these artist lyrics and seen how they can easily go on the secular radio stations and no one would know the difference.

Ah, but you know what happens when you assume. I have looked them up, and as I said before wrote a pretty lengthy (20 page) response to the hosts of your precious source site.

Quote by Frenchy:
not only that you all throw your opinions around instead of scripture and facts. and i just love the personal attacks on me such as how many people do i witness to, i witness to as many as God would have me to. i am not into the numbers game i am into glorifying God and the edification of his saints and seeing people saved and growing. i guarentee that isn't the same goal as most of these artist.

Wow... you've been privy to their innermost thoughts and conversations with God? I'm impressed Frenchy! That would be the only way you could guarantee anything where these artists are concerned, especially since you don't listen to their music. And as far as I'm concerned... you don't even have your own opinions to fall back on, you just cut and paste others' onto this discussion board.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Soooo then, why are we talking only about music?

Why not talk about the evils of oh say, NASCAR? Or, baseball? Or, Shopping! Yeah, lets have a discussion about shopping for clothes in a store where most certainly immodest choices are sold! Walmart for example.

Oh, but you can pick and choose among the clothing styles at Walmart and just because something looks immodest on you doesn't mean it might look the same on me. Different body types are suited to different styles.

In the same manner, different music choices are suited to different individuals. To say all music except a few arbitrary choices based on your own preferences is evil, is just as senseless as saying you can't find decent clothing at Walmart so we shouldn't support the evil giant.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Frenchy:
Yes wasn't it him who said Kathy Troccli was not a christian but a catholic which i replied that she was saved by her own testimony.

No. I've never said such a thing. While I have a whole truckload of problems with Roman Catholicism, I've never said that one must be one or the other.

I haven't heard Mikes testimony, so i really can't tell by his writings or the kind of music he prefers. the bible says to judge what people say and that is what we are doing.

So, you admit that you don't know and you can't tell, but you judge me so harshly, anyway?

You're right, the Bible does tell us to judge, but it tells us to judge righteous judgements

You're not judging righteously, you're judging based on gossip and rumor mongering. You're judging based on innuendo and trivial matters.

That's precisely the sort of thing Jesus was condemning in the passage you keep citing to justify your actions.

You're also being dishonest. More than once, you've claimed that I've said something I never said, and you've made false claims about the REZ Band.

Did Jesus not say to judge in the same manner that you would be judged? Is this really how you want to be judged? I'm afraid that when the day comes when you're judged by your own standard, you're going to be in for quite a shock.

I'm not saying that to criticize or to condemn, but in the hopes that you'll see that, by judging people so unfairly, you're really just inviting judgment upon yourself.

Mike questioned someones salvation so he made it fair game.

Who's salvation did I ever question? I challenge any of the mods or anyone who's interested to go back through my posts and show where I've done this.

I'll make a deal with you. You show us who's salvation I've questioned and I will take a voluntary thirty day leave from BaptistBoard.

Bythe way, I'm still waiting for you to back up your claims that REZ sings songs about killing babies or that they sing songs that "glorify evil".

Now Playing: Beatles – “Rubber Soul"

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Quote by Frenchy:
I am not against all CCM music. I have hundreds of Christian music ranging from country, hymnals, praise, gospel, easy listening, abstract, jazz etc. since i have so much and been a christian for over 20 years i am not up on the new stuff. but let me give an example of a few artist i think are sound who have a beat.

Kathy Troccoli
Mike Menard
Andy Alan
Larnelle Harris
Ray Boltz
Sandi Patty
Ivan Parker
Contentials

To name a few

These artists are ok, is that what you're saying by "I think they're sound?" Just want to be clear. If that is in fact what you're saying, than read your own OP website. Just a snip...

Quote from the AV1611 site:
Following the footsteps of Amy is Sandi Patti. Sandi Patti is the highest paid Gospel entertainer in the world,averaging $75,000 for a two-hour performance (Don Cusic, Sandi Patti, (New York, 1988),pp. 211-212) (not to mention profits from T-shirts, records, etc). At $37,000 an hour, who is Sandi Patti really serving? God or mammon? Jesus Christ said in Matthew 6:24, "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; . . .Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

Oh give me a break... because she makes money, she's trying to serve two masters? blah blah blah... but oh wait Frenchy... you've accused me of NOT reading your assertions, assumptions and av1611's drivel. Guess I did, huh?

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

BTW the message to the old folks in "emergent" or "seeker" churches (that's churches that are run by the youth group) is:

CHANGE OR GET OUT!

J.D.
Gettin Old.

What's the difference between that and old Baptist churches (of which I have always been a part in my ministry) that scream to younger people and "undesireables" that they aren't welcome because they won't conform to what we want?

J.R.
Stayin' Alive.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Originally posted by Linda64:
So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. (John 21:15)

He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. (John 21:16)

He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep. (John 21:17)

I'm surprised that nobody has posted these verses since we are talking about loving Jesus.

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. (James 4:4)

How can anyone love Jesus more than these when they are loving the things of the world?

Irrelevant post! No one is talking about loving anything more than Jesus.

What "things of the world" do you love, Linda? The smell of a new car? A nice dinner at a fine restaurant? Reading a good book? Enjoying a game with your family? Going on a picnic with one's S.O.? Soaking in a hot bath? Taking in the smell of springtime flowers?

Music is not different that whatever you enjoy.

All this talk about not being "of the world" reminds me of what a pastor I heard once said...
"Some people are so heavenly minded that they are no earthly good."

As for Frenchy, questioning another's relationship with God is NOT our province in any way, but to judge it on their music preferences is absurd, legalistic and just plain wrong. Judging the motives and heart of CCM musicians is also wrong. No doubt, many have come to love fame and stardom, however, I know many humble musicians who have attained great success, while maintaining their love of God. There are also many secular musicians who love God with all their soul.

You are certainly entitled to your own musical preferences, but give others the same latitude. No one has called your preferred music satanic, or said it will lead to illicit sex and drugs, as you have claimed repeatedly about CCM. Yet you provide ZERO EVIDENCE that supports such an assertion.

I am amazed at how hostile this discussion of music has become. Remove the log from thine own eye before worrying about the speck in the eye of thy brother or sister.

Gods love and blessings to all!

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Quote by SFIC:
Jesus also got incredibly harsh with the Pharisees for making the house of God a den of thieves; which is what satan is now doing in the guise of Christian Contemporary Music.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Frenchy:
here is my quote it says "you guys" Mike never said whether the guys he plays with are christians in fact he indicated they were not

Actually, I never indicated any such thing. I have no way of knowing whether most of them are Christians or not.

There are many artists I play on my show who, while they are mainstream artists, are Christians.

David Wilcox, Van Morrison, Buddy and Julie Miller, Junior Brown, Peter Mayer and others are Christians who happen to be making very good mainstream music.

Now Playing: Boz Scaggs - "Come on Home"

 

[standingfirminChrist]

In all likelihood if one cannot tell that another is a christian, the other is probably not a christian at all.

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

And very little love has been shown toward other board members and CCM artists who themselves have the undeniable fruit of showing God's love and leading others to God.

 

[tinytim]

Originally posted by Joshua Rhodes:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Quote by SFIC:
Jesus also got incredibly harsh with the Pharisees for making the house of God a den of thieves; which is what satan is now doing in the guise of Christian Contemporary Music.

</font>[/QUOTE]Really! I guess that means that Southern Gospel groups will have to quit selling their wares.

BTW, Here is a serious question...
How many of you that don't like CCM likes Southern Gospel?
I'm not trying to be argumenative here, but I know a few that groups southern Gospel in with CCM today.

Do any of you?

 

[gtbuzzarp]

I think I need to post this excerpt from my last post, which no CCM nay-sayers have addressed:

One significant fact demonstrated by Professor Jackson was that the hymn writers of the first half of the nineteenth century, unwilling for “the devil to have all the pretty tunes,” turned to folk tunes— the old ballad and dance tunes, such as “Barbara Allan”— for their hymns.

So you see, just like the Church "redeemed" Saturnalia by making Dec 25th the day to Celebrate Christmas, they wanted to reclaim music for God, because the world had perverted it. How is this any different from CCM music having similar sounds to secular rock? (not to mention that I think lumping many CCM artists into secular rock styles demonstrates a total lack of understanding. I think it is analogous to how I think all rap and country music sounds the same or how some people claim people of other ethinicities/races from their own look all the same. Once you get to know another music style (or people from other ethnic groups) you realize how shallow your original viewpoint was.)

No one is saying all CCM is good. Much of it is fluff. I remember the first CCM CD I ever bought. After I listened to it, I was like "huh?" My friend told me "Welcome to the world of CCM." Because something has the word "Christian" attached to it does not mean everything under that heading is Christian. Just like not everything in the hymn book is good.

 

[gtbuzzarp]

I posted this on an older link about "Christian Rock" and I think it is appropriate here as well:

Let's think about this rationally shall we?
How can music, in and of itself, be inherently good or bad? Of God or of Satan?
The people that write and play the music can either be a sinner or a saint, and can be used for either good or evil, but to say that all music of XYZ category is "of the world" is nonsense.

Afterall, what is music? Essentially it is the combination, organization, and discretization of sound waves that consist of various frequencies and amplitudes with a variety of timbres.

Take the above, and remove the organization and you basically have noise.

So tell me how one set of organized sounds waves of various timbres is ok, but not another?

 

[rbell]

Originally posted by Linda64:


BTW--Posting what you are playing is becoming redundant.

Linda, feel free to not read my posts, if you wish. I post what we're playing because I want folks to understand EXACTLY what I use, and be PRECISE in my assertions. I don't play "Baby, Baby" by Amy Grant in a worship service, believe it or not. Our music we use in our church is God-centered.

My thoughts? You don't like seeing what we're doing because you cannot criticize it. You see it's scripturally sound and has been prayed over, and that God is using it, and your house of cards comes a-tumbling down.

Feel free to tell us what you do in your worship service. And instead of criticizing it, I'll celebrate it.

Furthermore...I post it so that people can SPECIFICALLY, LOGICALLY, and most of all USING SCRIPTURE tell me what is wrong with our worship service...

So far...NNE has done so.

 

[rbell]

Originally posted by gtbuzzarp:
I posted this on an older link about "Christian Rock" and I think it is appropriate here as well:


So tell me how one set of organized sounds waves of various timbres is ok, but not another?

The pagan Greek philosopher Pythagoras understood...he came up with that philosophy.

SOURCE

 

[gtbuzzarp]

I remember learning about that in 7th or 8th grade math. We watched "Donald Duck in Mathematics Land" or something like that.