Taking the Mark of the Beast

[Baptist Believer]

Does this also cover Gay rights? Abortion and the like They claim these are social justice.
MB

"They" do not set the biblical standards for working for justice.

At the same time, social justice is involved in treating people who are made in the image of God as valuable and important. That's what basic human rights are all about.

 

[George Antonios]

If you take the mark of the Beast - will it be possible to still be saved during the tribulation?


NOTE: This is NOT a discussion of when the Tribulation will happen (ie pre,mid, post, A trib)

Generally, yes, provided you are willing to cut off your right hand (where the mark is placed) or pluck out your eye (ocular mark), which is the dispensational context of Christ's warning.

 

[timtofly]

You cannot see it because you are looking for the symbol to appear instead of what it represents. And adding to God's word as a consequence. Have you seen any red dragons yet? Don't count on it.

Saying the mark cannot be seen is adding to the Word of God. A mark is still a mark, not a thought process.

 

[Yeshua1]

It is a symbol of Satan's binding. It says nothing more than that.

Says quite a bit more, as there will be a time when Jesus reigns directly upon the earth!

 

[Dave G]

Jesus taught Amillennialism.

No, He did not.

He told Micah about His coming in Micah 4, and several others of His Old Testament prophets as well...
Ezekiel, Daniel, Zechariah ( Zechariah 12:9-14, Zechariah 13:1-7, Zechariah 14 ), Joel ( Joel 3 ) and Jeremiah all come to mind.

 

[Yeshua1]

No, He did not.

He told Micah about His coming in Micah 4, and several others of His Old Testament prophets as well...
Ezekiel, Daniel, Zechariah and Jeremiah all come to mind.

The OT prophecies of his first Coming were literally fulfilled, so why not all those of his Second Coming?

 

[Paul from Antioch]

I use NHNE with New Jerusalem.

It is better than NJ with the new heavens and earth. New Jersey is not on the NE. NJ is in the NE (north east) currently but not after the 6th Seal.

Given what we're told from 1600 PA Ave., will the Mark of the Beast also have to have some sort of "Letter of Acceptance" from "You-Know-Who"? .....Just sayin'!!

 

[Dave G]

Are you going to sacrifice animals in the supposed third temple?

The Jews will, when they finish it.
All they need is a peace treaty and an agreement with the Islamic nations around them to build next to the Dome of the Rock on Mt. Moriah.

Have you considered Obama's pro sodomite laws that put Christian businesses out of work?

They haven't put me out of work yet.
For instance, I can publicly profess Christ and still run a hardware store or a pizza parlor if I want to.

Unless they comply (receive the Mark) they could not buy or sell.

As a Christian, I can still buy and sell here in America and in most parts of the world,
And I don't have to receive a mark of any kind to do it.

While we're on the subject, what is that "mark", anyway?
A Social Security number?
If so, then most who are reading this, at least in the United States, are going to the Lake of Fire.

Is it a data file in the NSA's, DOD's, CIA's or FBI's computers?
That rules out anyone who has served in the military or in government of any kind, Christian or not.
For example, my fingerprints and SSN are on file in the Bureau of Naval Personnel, as are my medical records.

A vaccine?
Then the vast majority of those reading this are already marked, having received many of them...
Including ones like small pox when they were infants.

That's how it works.

The way they work is if a professing Christian ( or anyone of any other religion for that matter ) refuses the general public a service that they have volunteered to perform, because of a person's immoral acts.

But those same business owners can still go right down to the local grocery and buy whatever they want,
without having to be concerned about having an identifying mark that shows that they support the current world leader or not...

Because there is no current world leader ( or his false prophet ) who forces everyone to do something upon pain of death ( Revelation 13:11-18 ).

 

[Dave G]

Do you know what Amillennialism is?

Yes, I do.
It's what the Roman Catholic Church has historically taught for nigh on to 1,500 years now,
and I believe that it was Augustine that systematized it.

What did he teach if not that?

What's found in Revelation 20 and many other places.

BTW Amillennialism means No Millennium.

I agree.
Respectfully, I see that it's a denial of Revelation 20 and many other prophecies that have yet to be fulfilled, Dave.

The reason you look for literal fulfillment in the future is that you cannot see it now.

No, the reason I personally look for it, is because I see it in the Scriptures...
Otherwise I wouldn't be looking for it.

Why can't you see it?

Because it hasn't happened yet.
I also see that the Pharisees were confusing His first coming with everything that was stated in the writings of His prophets.

In other words, they didn't understand that He would do everything in two phases....
Literally.

 

[Dave G]

It is a symbol of Satan's binding. It says nothing more than that.

Respectfully,
It says quite a bit more than that.
Let's take a look at it together:

" And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season." ( Revelation 20:1-3 ).

According to this, Satan will be bound and cast into the bottomless pit... unable to deceive the nations.
In other words, He will not be able to accuse Christians before the throne of God day and night ( Revelation 12:10 ),
neither will he be able to blind people to the truth of the Gospel per 2 Corinthians 4:3-4,
neither will he be able to send forth false teachers ( 2 Corinthians 11:14-15, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1 ) in order to try and carry God's children away with false doctrines ( Ephesians 4:14 ).

Moving down a bit in the text:

" And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." ( Revelation 20:4-6 ).

The above looks very plain to me, Dave.

A literal 1,000 years, and a literal mark...
Either in the forehead or in the hand.
Remember that mark that Scripture says people will receive in Revelation 13 upon pain of death?
I haven't seen one yet, and it's still possible for me to buy and sell without risking my life to do it.

I also have not seen a world leader who has been given power by the Lord to make war with the saints of God, nor have I seen or heard of one that has miraculously recovered from a mortal wound to the head, nor one who was given power to rule for only 42 months over all kindreds and tongues and nations, nor one whom the whole world shall worship, nor a false prophet that can call fire down from Heaven in the sight of men as a lying sign and wonder.

I've also never seen or heard of anyone who yet fits this description who has had an image made in his likeness that the whole world is commanded to worship ( as God ) by that very same false prophet;
Again, on pain of death.


I'm sorry, Dave, but the way I see it,
You are free to believe Augustine and many others on this one, and I will believe what is written on the pages.


I wish you well,
and I hope that you re-think what it is that you're believing and go with what God's word says.

 

[Salty]

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[timtofly]

The Mark is symbolic too. Did you know many already have it but are ignorant as to what it is?

They cannot have the mark, because God has not declared time to be over yet. The mark is God letting folks know time is up. It is an expiration date. Time is not up until the last Trumpet. That 7th one you all keep calling the Second Coming. You all have the mark before the Second Coming and the return of Christ years after the Second Coming. That is backwards. The return is at the Second Coming. The mark is several years after the Second Coming.

 

[timtofly]

7

Have you considered Obama's pro sodomite laws that put Christian businesses out of work? Unless they comply (receive the Mark) they could not buy or sell. All who endorsed the laws received the Mark. That's how it works.

That is not how the mark works.

That is how any government can operate, which started in Babylon and the 3 Hebrew children walked through the fire, for such government practices. Totally different from the mark.

 

[Dave G]

In the words of Huck Finn (mostly), "You can't learn a [dispy] to argue, so I quit."

Something about this statement caused me to want to make a reply,
so I decided to make this my final one in this thread:

For the record,
I've never had any use whatsoever for Dispensationalism, nor have I had any use for Covenantal Theology, for the most part...
Though I do see pieces of both in God's word ( moreso with Covenant Theology );
So my comments are those of someone who has never studied anything but the Bible and probably never will.

Truthfully,
I do not agree with frameworks ( like those mentioned above ) that are used for "biblical interpretation" (whatever those are and that is, I reject all of it without reservation), and firmly hold that the Bible needs believing by those who claim to be His...
and it most definitely does not warrant constant and varying "interpretations" that oppose one another.

I also have no use for "hermeneutics", which I see as tools devised by men in an effort to try and understand what only His children have the capability of both believing and understanding ( provided they desire and study it as they should ( 1 Peter 2:2, 2 Timothy 2:15 ), which they will ) for themselves, and I reject any and all secular and extra-biblical methods that could be utilized to help them in any way, shape or form.

In other words,
I see absolutely no value in Bible colleges, creeds, confessions ( as anything other than expressions of what people see in the Scriptures ), and "seminaries"....
I see no lasting value in "commentaries", and definitely no point in even getting near a system of learning that exacts payment from a Christian's brothers and sisters for teaching one's own private understanding of the Bible to them.

God's people have everything that they need in order to understand His words ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-16, 2 Peter 1:3, 1 John 2:20-27 ) and they always have.


That said...

God's teachers teach His children the Scriptures, and they do it for free.
God's pastors do not watch over them for a paycheck, but because they love the Lord and want to serve Him by edifying ( building up ) their brothers and sisters in the faith and counsel them in many ways.
They all then come into the unity of the faith over time, as consistent study of His word sharpens them and they grow to know all that the Lord has done for them and what He is going to do in the future.





@Aaron :
May He bless you richly, sir, with a good evening, a peaceful weekend,
and with many good and perfect gifts in the days to come.

 

[timtofly]

Do you know what Amillennialism is? What did he teach if not that? BTW Amillennialism means No Millennium.

By that equivalency Jesus taught A-70th week of Daniel. Since Jesus did not teach anything about Daniel's 70th week, it does not exist either. Jesus does not give the length of the 70th week nor the length of the Millennium. That is not an indication we can rule both out.

John finished the Revelation of the life of Christ. John is the one who detailed both events and how they end.

 

[timtofly]

The reason you look for literal fulfillment in the future is that you cannot see it now. Why can't you see it? Because you are listening to the Pharisees and not Him.

We do not see it, because we read the Bible, and God's Word declares the Second Coming a future event. Amil listen to the Saducees, although, not sure why we are comparing life now to the first century.

 

[percho]

If you take the mark of the Beast - will it be possible to still be saved during the tribulation?


NOTE: This is NOT a discussion of when the Tribulation will happen (ie pre,mid, post, A trib)

Question

Is the devil still able to deceive the nations at that time?

Maybe another good question might be; Will God, at that time, still be taking out of the nations a people for his name Acts 15:14?

 

[timtofly]

Question

Is the devil still able to deceive the nations at that time?

Maybe another good question might be; Will God, at that time, still be taking out of the nations a people for his name Acts 15:14?

More like the vineyard was taken away from the church and given to Satan. Matthew 21:40-41.

 

[Salty]

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