Targeting the Roman Catholic

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Targeting the Roman Catholic is the name of the game for Protestant & Baptist Churches in New Jersey (with the 3rd largest Catholic Population in the USA / approx. 41%).

The Midwest most closely resembles the religious makeup of the overall population. The South, by a wide margin, has the heaviest concentration of members of evangelical Protestant churches. The Northeast has the greatest concentration of Catholics, and the West has the largest proportion of unaffiliated people, including the largest proportion of atheists and agnostics.

See attached Pew Research on Religion in America
http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

Also see: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/10/u...f-protestant-americans-is-declining.html?_r=0

I have been told publicly by a Baptist Pastor, at a church meeting to vote on a Name Change to a Congregational Church, that the primary motivation for imitating a name change (in NJ at least) was that they were striving to get Roman Catholics to join the church & the name, Baptist & Congregational scared the average RC. Consequently when you go to many of these churches today, the names reflect .....Bible Church, Abundant Life Church, Community Church, Grace Church....anything but the traditional "Baptist" name that appears outmoded. Also they have rushed to provide multiple services ....even Saturday services in order to emulate RC ways.

In my home community there are two churches that have really worked hard & long to attract RC's & with success. One is a United Methodist Church & the other is a RCC who is really gone all out to provide services to the ever growing Latin Communities. Everyone else is dying on the vine or dead. Ive mentioned it before, but in NW NJ I find the Baptist Church extinct & being replaced by the Charismatic movement. They, in particular, are very good at moving in on Baptist churches & displacing them with their Charismatic agenda.

Now my primary question centers around, "How do you combat the creep of Easy Believe-ism & Charismatic Mysticism that is literally invading my community?" Is there a way for a lone wolf Baptist to evangelize a crumbled structure?

Please understand that this is my home community.....I am fighting liberalism & sloth & broken spirited individuals on a daily basis....in both politics, community agendas & Beliefs. I have gone to multiple Baptist Groups & asked for help, only to be thwarted at every turn.....so do I join the UMC, the RCC, The Abundant Life Community Charismatic mess....all with the hidden agenda to change them from the inside? I am besides myself. At this juncture, I'm really becoming quite cynical & thinking the whole thing (both political & Church) is rigged, that this area is more like Sodom than Nineveh.

As Stephen Graham said in "With Poor Immigrants to America"... "America is a country where the soul falls into a deep and happy sleep" The inescapable consequence of a deep & happy sleep is a spiritual & moral decline, which, eventually threatens the very existence of a nation.

I see my community, the place that Ive lived for 56 years that was once the envy of the region, crumbling....meaning the moral foundation & its truly frightening (examples: heroin, prostitution, killings & hold ups). In Isaiah 5: 21, Evil is called good & good is called evil. Even more disturbing is the fact that we seem to be totally helpless in preventing the demise. My delama is what to do about it?

 

[evangelist-7]

Some of them are actually saved!
2 of their positive beliefs: Trinity, and some "works" of obedience are necessary for salvation later.

If you're from that area, do many of the RC churches teach praying to Mary and the saints?
.

 

[Revmitchell]

Maybe they should stop relying on names and start relying on the gospel. Whatever else becomes "outmoded" the gospel is eternal and living as well as never changing.

 

[preacher4truth]

Why should they not be targeted with the Gospel for conversion? Heavens sakes, we're still targeting Baptists for the same thing here (our town, not BB).

 

[Yeshua1]

Some of them are actually saved!
2 of their positive beliefs: Trinity, and some "works" of obedience are necessary for salvation later.

If you're from that area, do many of the RC churches teach praying to Mary and the saints?
.

RCC needs to have the Gospel given to them for Rome Gospel is a false One!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Some of them are actually saved!
2 of their positive beliefs: Trinity, and some "works" of obedience are necessary for salvation later.

If you're from that area, do many of the RC churches teach praying to Mary and the saints?
.

According to THINKING STUFF (our resident RC who was a Baptist) there is a move on to educate RC's to not pray to Mary but Ive never seen such a thing & even the Polish {p[e admitted he prayed to her sooooo.......

Unless someone comes in to correct me, I will still assume that the practice is ongoing.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Maybe they should stop relying on names and start relying on the gospel. Whatever else becomes "outmoded" the gospel is eternal and living as well as never changing.

AMEN...... but along with name changes comes the introduction of man made doctrine..... see its an excuse to become lax & start introducing stuff like Semi Peleganism or a Charismatic agenda..... at least, thats what Ive seen. Of course there are tons of Modern Apostate churches like the PCUSA & the UMC that cr4eate an entrainment & Easy Believe-ism venue......actually they are everywhere you turn. :BangHead:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Why should they not be targeted with the Gospel for conversion? Heavens sakes, we're still targeting Baptists for the same thing here (our town, not BB).

Rob.....see my comments to Mitchell above. My experience has been that these churches turn liberal and/or charismatic along with the agenda to target Catholics. Ive seen a Reformed Baptist Church turn liberal /anything goes, Ive seen a very serious independent Baptist Church (that was a pillar of the community) become Charismatic & Mystical, The Congregational Church is now more of a modern evangelical church where they were Calvinistic before (and having shared services with the local RCC) & a SBC Church go Charismatic within the last 8 weeks. Then I had a conversation with the General Baptist church down the corner & they also want to change the name & start admitting the Russian Church group that for all intents and purposes is evolving into a Charismatic mass.

 

[evangelist-7]

Then I had a conversation with the General Baptist church down the corner
& they also want to change the name & start admitting the Russian Church group
that for all intents and purposes is evolving into a Charismatic mass.

I can speak a little to both parts of "Charismatic mass".
Well, sort of ... but, you'll find it interesting.

Jesus sent me to evangelize 1200+ small villages in Bulgaria.
In the USA, I met a Christian who had been a monk in a Bulgarian Orthodox Church monastery.
One day while praying in the monastery, he received the baptism with the Holy Spirit
with the initial confirmation of speaking in tongues.
He and his family escaped the Communist regime, ending up in America.
He claimed that his 8 fellow monks in the monastery were not even saved.

P.S. it is possible for a churchman to be in "ministry" for a job, the money, the prestige, etc. etc.
.

 

[steaver]

Some of them are actually saved!
2 of their positive beliefs: Trinity, and some "works" of obedience are necessary for salvation later.

.

Gal5:4 - "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace".

Ouch!! Ye are fallen from Grace!! Does this then mean you have lost your salvation??

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Gal5:4 - "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace".

Ouch!! Ye are fallen from Grace!! Does this then mean you have lost your salvation??

Please don't turn this into a thread about OSAS gentlemen! My concern is with the turn these local churches are taking, seemingly to get headcounts & both the tactics used and what they are evolving into. My fear, of course, is this is a trend that will spread to other areas of the country if its not already done so and I just don't know it.

 

[steaver]

Please don't turn this into a thread about OSAS gentlemen! My concern is with the turn these local churches are taking, seemingly to get headcounts & both the tactics used and what they are evolving into. My fear, of course, is this is a trend that will spread to other areas of the country if its not already done so and I just don't know it.

2Th2:3 - "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

But there will remain a true faithful remnant which preaches the truth until the coming of our Lord.

2Th2:13-17 - "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work."

Apostasy has begun, and is becoming greater with each passing day. Sign the coming of our Lord grows near. Praise Jesus!

 

[preacher4truth]

According to THINKING STUFF (our resident RC who was a Baptist) there is a move on to educate RC's to not pray to Mary but Ive never seen such a thing & even the Polish {p[e admitted he prayed to her sooooo.......

Unless someone comes in to correct me, I will still assume that the practice is ongoing.

That's funny, TS claimed they don't pray to Mary in the first place. :sleeping_2:

 

[preacher4truth]

Rob.....see my comments to Mitchell above. My experience has been that these churches turn liberal and/or charismatic along with the agenda to target Catholics. Ive seen a Reformed Baptist Church turn liberal /anything goes, Ive seen a very serious independent Baptist Church (that was a pillar of the community) become Charismatic & Mystical, The Congregational Church is now more of a modern evangelical church where they were Calvinistic before (and having shared services with the local RCC) & a SBC Church go Charismatic within the last 8 weeks. Then I had a conversation with the General Baptist church down the corner & they also want to change the name & start admitting the Russian Church group that for all intents and purposes is evolving into a Charismatic mass.

So what does all of that have to do with what I said? My point is we need to evangelize the members of our OWN churches. Is that your point? Assume nothing about churches and their members. As far as mysticism in churches, certain baptists groups are that and it comes from their hyper-calvinism among other things.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That's funny, TS claimed they don't pray to Mary in the first place. :sleeping_2:

Right....Hail Mary! :laugh:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So what does all of that have to do with what I said? My point is we need to evangelize the members of our OWN churches. Is that your point? Assume nothing about churches and their members. As far as mysticism in churches, certain baptists groups are that and it comes from their hyper-calvinism among other things.

There are no "our churches" in this area. And explain to me how hyper Calvinism creates mysticism.

 

[BobRyan]

Gal5:4 - "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace".

Ouch!! Ye are fallen from Grace!! Does this then mean you have lost your salvation??

It says "fallen from Grace - Severed from Christ" - is this the "Saved state" in your thinking?

Could a lost person have been previously "joined TO Christ and under grace" as a depraved lost person then suddenly become lost-ER by falling from that exaulted lost position to an even lost-ER position?

In any case - I don't think the RCC members are necessarily drawn by cheap-grace arguments. Often they claim to hold members in - by pointing out that the non-Catholic alternative is cheap-grace and sin-all-you-want which their members instinctively know - cannot be right.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It says "fallen from Grace - Severed from Christ" - is this the "Saved state" in your thinking?

Could a lost person have been previously "joined TO Christ and under grace" as a depraved lost person then suddenly become lost-ER by falling from that exalted lost position to an even lost-ER position?

In any case - I don't think the RCC members are necessarily drawn by cheap-grace arguments. Often they claim to hold members in - by pointing out that the non-Catholic alternative is cheap-grace and sin-all-you-want which their members instinctively know - cannot be right.

in Christ,

Bob

It has been my experience Bob, that it is the RCC that is the biggest supporters of Cheap Grace & bizarre mystical services (that make zero sense to the person sitting in the pew each week). Mostly its a mixture of piety & allot of 'Sin & repent, sin & repent' that is the Roman Catholics daily operating method.

What finally leads a RC toward another faith is the sense of spiritual emptiness coupled with bizarre ritual & the great many sexual perversions you see today. What will keep you there is a sense of belonging (that tends to dwindle with time) & the ease of knowing that by just saying a rote prayer and/or a trip to the confessional & your sins are washed clean (often so that you can run right out & do them again)!

Now here is the kicker, the common walkin around RC looks for some ritual (nice at holidays like Christmas & Easter), looks for an even freer sense of repentance (that he can turn on & off at will) & someplace to go to to say he belongs on Sunday.....and these modern churches in my experience give him just that. Id say that first the Charismatic over exuberance can be stimulating, but the freeness to not have to go to a Religious service (that he equates to a mass) is just fantastic. So he begins to miss church on a regular basis, assigning that duty to the wife & then as the kids grow you dont see him at all. But now 1st Baptist Church has evolved into Abundant Life Happy Happy Community Bible Church (Who's demise takes with it the true emphasis of extrapolating sound doctrine from scripture, .... what you are left with is an entrainment center). Do that enough & now you have an area void of true solid Baptist Churches. But for the folks running it, it pays the bills.

 

[steaver]

It says "fallen from Grace - Severed from Christ" - is this the "Saved state" in your thinking?

Could a lost person have been previously "joined TO Christ and under grace" as a depraved lost person then suddenly become lost-ER by falling from that exaulted lost position to an even lost-ER position?


in Christ,

Bob

Ask E7, he is the one who Galatians 5:4 is speaking of.....

Some of them are actually saved!
2 of their positive beliefs: Trinity, and some "works" of obedience are necessary for salvation later.

Maybe you agree with him? And then you will have to deal with Galatians 5 also.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Ask E7, he is the one who Galatians 5:4 is speaking of.....



Maybe you agree with him? And then you will have to deal with Galatians 5 also.

Steve----why do you continue to insist in fronting a pitched battle with this guy? Look, he is entitled to his opinion & to express it, no matter if you or I might disagree with it.