Taxonomy of Fundamentalism (IFB)

[Bob Alkire]

I've always found BJU to be pretty scholarly in contrast to some elements of our movement.

John, I have to agree. I don't know how scholarly one would rate Stewart Custer, but he has been a blessing to me many times reading his work. Others from there as well but I'm looking at three of his books on my book shelves now.

 

[Salty]

Anywhere you go in the county Fundamentals as well as anyone else will have some differences.

When I went to Bible camp (in NY) we always had mixed swimming - until Dr Brown went to BJU - that next year - it was segregated swimming
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by gender! (gotcha ya)

As a teen, in church one Sunday, a missionary told us that down South a hostess told him that they don't drink coffee, because they were a Baptists.

Up North, we disdained smoking, yet when I went down South, many Christians did smoke ( and even worse - they eat Grits

Many churches down South do not allow any eating in the church building -let alone the sanctuary - not so much up North.

So do any of these issues make a Christian more of a fundamentalist?

 

[John of Japan]

John, I have to agree. I don't know how scholarly one would rate Stewart Custer, but he has been a blessing to me many times reading his work. Others from there as well but I'm looking at three of his books on my book shelves now.

Stewart Custer is a genuine Greek scholar with, for example, his book on Greek idioms being widely accepted.

 

[evangelist6589]

See, this is the problem: Evangelist6589 attended BJU, and that's the extent of his personal experience with "fundamentalists." He's subsequently made the logical fallacy of saying that because he personally knows this small sub-group, then the entire group must be like that. Including some of those that aren't actually in the group.

I have also been in Jack Hyles clone churches and they are very bad. BJU is far better and less legalistic than those types.

Pastors in those churches love to yell, bark, scream, and get political, and then go on rants and use their personal experiences as authority. Good speakers, but very poor expositors. The only advantage was that the speakers were not afraid to get political which is sometimes necessary. However for that I have Charles Stanley.

 

[evangelist6589]

Stewart Custer is a genuine Greek scholar with, for example, his book on Greek idioms being widely accepted.

I went to his church a few times (Trinity Bible Church) read one of his books and met the man. A powerful exegete.

Bye the way if you want one of his sermons I can send it to you.

 

[evangelist6589]

John, I have to agree. I don't know how scholarly one would rate Stewart Custer, but he has been a blessing to me many times reading his work. Others from there as well but I'm looking at three of his books on my book shelves now.

BJU no question is scholarly, and perhaps the best among the IFB movement.

 

[evangelist6589]

And that's the trouble with most of the IFB critics on the Internet. All they know is what they read. "I read it on the Internet, so it must be true!"

Evangelist6589 did not answer me when I asked in response to his charge of ignorance in fundamentalism if his profs at BJU grad school were ignorant. In fact, I've always found BJU to be pretty scholarly in contrast to some elements of our movement. So I suspect in his heart he knows better.

John is my name.

BJU profs are not ignorant by any means. However some of the chapel speakers were very bigoted and made me angry with some of their comments about other non IFB Churches, and even some back handed comments about The Way of the Master. Sometimes I wanted to go do some open air preaching in front of the chapel speakers church, but I would be in sin, as open air preaching is meant to call the ungodly to repentenence and not to get into quarrells with other Christians on secondary issues.

 

[John of Japan]

I went to his church a few times (Trinity Bible Church) read one of his books and met the man. A powerful exegete.

Bye the way if you want one of his sermons I can send it to you.

Thanks for the sentiment, but I probably already have too many sermons to listen to or read.

 

[John of Japan]

BJU no question is scholarly, and perhaps the best among the IFB movement.

My alma mater for the MA is Maranatha Baptist Bible College, which is regionally accredited and therefore has very high standards for scholarship, higher than BJU I believe. BJ has just recently gotten TRACS accreditation, to my understanding, which has somewhat lower standards than regional accreditation.

Other IFB schools with high standards of scholarship include Northland (TRACS), Calvary Baptist Theological Seminary (TRACS), Calvary Baptist Theological Seminary (regional), etc. Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary does not have accreditation, but does produce a scholarly journal with good content.

There are plenty of IFB scholars with worthy degrees. The reasons you don't read many articles in the evangelical journals by them are: (1) We often have our own journals. (2) Unfortunately, IFB schools are usually not big enough to afford paying research profs like the big schools (Kostenberger at SEBTS, Carson at Trinity, etc.). (By the way, my IFB scholar son now has four articles, I think it is, published in major theological journals.)

 

[John of Japan]

John is my name.

BJU profs are not ignorant by any means. However some of the chapel speakers were very bigoted and made me angry with some of their comments about other non IFB Churches, and even some back handed comments about The Way of the Master. Sometimes I wanted to go do some open air preaching in front of the chapel speakers church, but I would be in sin, as open air preaching is meant to call the ungodly to repentenence and not to get into quarrells with other Christians on secondary issues.

Hi, John.

I'm glad to read from you finally that there are IFB folk who are not ignorant. I was beginning to think you thought us all to be losers.

One man's bigot is another man's partisan. One man's rant is another man taking a strong position. One man's intolerance is another man's stand for righteousness. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[evangelist6589]

My alma mater for the MA is Maranatha Baptist Bible College, which is regionally accredited and therefore has very high standards for scholarship, higher than BJU I believe. BJ has just recently gotten TRACS accreditation, to my understanding, which has somewhat lower standards than regional accreditation.

Other IFB schools with high standards of scholarship include Northland (TRACS), Calvary Baptist Theological Seminary (TRACS), Calvary Baptist Theological Seminary (regional), etc. Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary does not have accreditation, but does produce a scholarly journal with good content.

There are plenty of IFB scholars with worthy degrees. The reasons you don't read many articles in the evangelical journals by them are: (1) We often have our own journals. (2) Unfortunately, IFB schools are usually not big enough to afford paying research profs like the big schools (Kostenberger at SEBTS, Carson at Trinity, etc.). (By the way, my IFB scholar son now has four articles, I think it is, published in major theological journals.)

You also need to realize that DA Carson and the evangelical journals are not against the NIV, nor contemporary worship as many IFB are. Carson himself uses the translation in some of his books. BJU hated the NIV and would not sell it, yet I found it odd that it was used by many of the books in the seminary.

They may deny that but ask yourself why they do not sell it in the bookstore, do not preach from it, and none of their churches in the area use it. Explain that? Thats what I call indifference.

 

[John of Japan]

You also need to realize that DA Carson and the evangelical journals are not against the NIV, nor contemporary worship as many IFB are. Carson himself uses the translation in some of his books. BJU hated the NIV and would not sell it, yet I found it odd that it was used by many of the books in the seminary.

They may deny that but ask yourself why they do not sell it in the bookstore, do not preach from it, and none of their churches in the area use it. Explain that? Thats what I call indifference.

It's not indifference, it's opposition to the dynamic equivalence translation method with which the NIV was translated. (Granted, the NIV is not as radical in its DE as, say, the GNB.) As a Greek teacher and translator, I've examined the NIV and found many places where the NIV ignored the syntax or semantics of the original in its renderings. And there are evangelicals who oppose this. See Translating Truth, by Grudem, Ryken, Collins, Poythress and Winter.

But if we go down this route in our discussion, once again we will be derailing this thread.

 

[evangelist6589]

It's not indifference, it's opposition to the dynamic equivalence translation method with which the NIV was translated. (Granted, the NIV is not as radical in its DE as, say, the GNB.) As a Greek teacher and translator, I've examined the NIV and found many places where the NIV ignored the syntax or semantics of the original in its renderings. And there are evangelicals who oppose this. See Translating Truth, by Grudem, Ryken, Collins, Poythress and Winter.

But if we go down this route in our discussion, once again we will be derailing this thread.

Thats your opinion. DA Carson wrote a book on NT Introduction and he uses the NIV as his primary text. Grant Osborne wrote a book on biblical hermeneutics and uses the NIV as his main text. Josh McDowell has also written some great apologetics books and he often uses the NIV.

You have a opinion. Yes we are getting OT.

 

[John of Japan]

Thats your opinion. DA Carson wrote a book on NT Introduction and he uses the NIV as his primary text. Grant Osborne wrote a book on biblical hermeneutics and uses the NIV as his main text. Josh McDowell has also written some great apologetics books and he often uses the NIV.

You have a opinion. Yes we are getting OT.

You asked why BJU-type fundamentalists don't use the NIV. I told you why. End of story on this thread. (And I don't really care why evangelicals use the NIV and who they are. It doesn't interest me.)

 

[Rippon]

It's not indifference, it's opposition to the dynamic equivalence translation method with which the NIV was translated. (Granted, the NIV is not as radical in its DE as, say, the GNB.)

Oh,now you admit it. The NIV is not anywhere near the GNP. The NIV was not modeled after Mr. Nida's methodology.

As a Greek teacher and translator, I've examined the NIV and found many places where the NIV ignored the syntax or semantics of the original in its renderings.

They were not ignored. Perhaps you are aware that the translators of the NIV have greater scholarship than you possess.

And there are evangelicals who oppose this. See Translating Truth, by Grudem, Ryken, Collins, Poythress and Winter.

Grudem and Co. are so far off the beam it is ridiculous. Ryken spouts nonsense. It is a shame that some evangelicals I admire fall for the shallow, grossly mistaken, and prejudical views of these kind of authors.

I see your G,R,C,P and W. I raise it up to Carson,Moo,Silva,Fee,Strauss.

But if we go down this route in our discussion, once again we will be derailing this thread.

Not necessarily. Translation issues are part and parcel of Fundamentalism.

 

[John of Japan]

Not necessarily. Translation issues are part and parcel of Fundamentalism.

The OP is not about fundamentalists and Bible translation, but specifically about a taxonomy of fundamentalism. So climb down off your hobby horse! :tongue3:

 

[Squire Robertsson]

A Mod Alert

This thread is about the various and sundry types of Fundamentalits. Its focus is not on the nity gritty of translation. We have another forum for that.

 

[evangelist6589]

Okay lets use another thread for that one.

Oh,now you admit it. The NIV is not anywhere near the GNP. The NIV was not modeled after Mr. Nida's methodology.



They were not ignored. Perhaps you are aware that the translators of the NIV have greater scholarship than you possess.



Grudem and Co. are so far off the beam it is ridiculous. Ryken spouts nonsense. It is a shame that some evangelicals I admire fall for the shallow, grossly mistaken, and prejudical views of these kind of authors.

I see your G,R,C,P and W. I raise it up to Carson,Moo,Silva,Fee,Strauss.



Not necessarily. Translation issues are part and parcel of Fundamentalism.

 

[Rippon]

The Plymouth Brethren used to be solidly fundamental, with leaders such as C. I. Scofield and H. A. Ironside, but I don't know much about them nowadays.

Although Scofield influenced the Plymouth Brethren tremendously;he was not a PB'er. He pastored a Congrgational church, Moody's church in Mass.,and later became a Southern Presbyterian per Wickipedia.

 

[John of Japan]

Although Scofield influenced the Plymouth Brethren tremendously;he was not a PB'er. He pastored a Congrgational church, Moody's church in Mass.,and later became a Southern Presbyterian per Wickipedia.

Thanks for the information.