Multi, you haven't answered my questions.
Originally posted by Multimom:
I took this from their website and to be sure that my position is accurate, I went to some other "Baptist" websites and checked out their statements of faith.
Which BTW did show pretty much the same wording as that which I found at the Potter's House Website. Are you saying by your statement that you believe Baptists are "modalists". In all my years in the Baptist Church I never saw that to be the case.
First of all, Baptists do not act as a monlith. There are seemingly as many baptistic denominations and as many baptist doctrinal stances as there are in the rest of Christendom, combined.
It's not impossible that there are Baptist modalists, but I don't see how they could reconcile that belief to scripture any more than I can see how T.D. Jakes does.
God--There is one God, Creator of all things, infinitely perfect, and eternally existing in three Manifestations: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Classic modalism.
The members of the Trinity are three distinct persons, not three manifestations of one person.
Jesus Christ--Jesus Christ is true God and true man, having been conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He died on the cross, the complete and final sacrifice for our sins according to the Scriptures. Further, He arose bodily from the dead, ascended into heaven, where, at the right hand of the Majesty on High, He is now our High Priest and Advocate.
The Holy Spirit--The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ and during this age, to convict men of sin, regenerate the believing sinner, indwell, guide, instruct, and empower the believer for godly living and service.
Agreed.
This is copied directly from the statement of faith from The Potter's House ministry.
Yep.
Tell me one Baptist church that has a 45% attendance of men.
Huh?
There is one thing that I do find truly remarkable in our discussions regarding differing faiths and beliefs. Those of us who disagree with the general Baptist Doctrine have not once come in here and singled out a minister of the faith associated with your denomination and began to expose his error in teaching and trust me if we searched hard enough, I'm sure we could find someone one somewhere who would have plenty to say about "false" teaching in the Baptist church.
Right. There are a couple of problems here, though.
First of all, no one here woke up this morning and said, "I think I'll pick on T.D. Jakes today".
The subject was raised because need4speed is concerned about the impact this prominent teacher is having on his wife.
Secondly, nobody here had to go and dig for dirt on T.D. Jakes, as you propose doing.
He is a well known public figure who put his beliefs on his own website for anyone to see.
And lastly, I think I speak for all Baptists here when I say, if you see anything as heretical as Sabellian heresy in our churches, please bring it to our attention so that we can smooth out our doctrinal problems.
Just because someone "thinks" its false doesn't mean its false. That means its your opinion.
Right, but if it comes down to what the Bible says or what man says...
Your interpretation of scripture leads you to "think" its false.
You bet it does and nearly all of orthodox Christianity as well as many of the historic creeds and affirmations of the faith agree with us on this issue.
Are you implying that you don't accept the view that the members of the Trinity are three distinct personalities?
And those of us who are FULL Gospel could produce many and article to prove that not all doctrine in the Baptist church is accurate.
On behalf of Baptists everywhere, PLEASE DO. If we're wrong, we want to know so we can fix it.
But we don't. I wonder why that is?
For the same reason that I didn't when I was caught up in the Word of Faith cult - because as long as I didn't question what I was being taught, I would never be challenged, I could plead ignorance and I could go on believing whatever I wanted to.
What I have begun to see is a lack of "fruit" in those who feel it is acceptable for them to pass judgement.
Wow, you can get all of that from from a couple of anonymous posts on the internet?
That's great. I thought the only people who could judge people's hearts like that were God and Ernie Brazee.
Do you love and pray for Dr. Jakes since you think he's so "evil"
I don't believe he's evil (at least, no more so than the rest of us).
I do pray for his followers.
or do you just sit around and talk about him as though he's the devil incarnate?
No, I believe you're thinking of Benny Hinn.
I have tested much of what I have heard from Dr. Jakes and frankly I'm not sure that I agree with everything he says but I do not see him as a "false" teacher.
We've already demonstrated that he perverts the nature of the Trinity.
As Walter Martin would say, "Ultimately, every heresy begins with the misunderstanding of the nature of God."
He has led millions to Christ. Can your local church say the same.
No but then, that's not what God has called us to do. However, I believe we have been faithful in doing what He
has called us to do.
I love Dr. Charles Stanley, I respect and admire him, but his "television" ministry is so dry that I doubt many would say that they came to Jesus as a result of his teaching.
Actually, I know several people who have come to Christ as a result of his ministry and I know countless Christians, myself included, whom God has spoken to through "In Touch".
Are you implying that the only way to lead people to Christ is to be entertaining?
I will search for churches with close to the same membership as the Potter's House which in the SBC will limit me to not much more than about 5 - 10 churches.
Lets see what I can come up with. Is anyone interested in persuing that topic?
No. At least, not in this thread. That would be too of topic. (HA! What kind of world do we live in when I'm the one reminding people to stay on topic?
)
I'm just trying to focus our point and find out why it is that Baptist in general feel its okay to speak negatively and openly regarding the ministry of another.
Why did Paul feel it was OK? (second time I've asked you that, BTW)
Having parents who are both on staff at First Baptist Church of Houston, I could provide plenty of dirt on their former pastor of 30 years. Dr. John Bisagno.
And therein lies the problem. You're talking about digging up "dirt" on someone and we're discussing what a preacher says and advocates in public. One is gossip, the other is scriptural.
