Do you think Metzger believes that God desires many millions of people to be in Hell and chose from the beginning this fate of all?
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Tell the Truth by Will Metzger discussion
- Thread starter evangelist6589
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God only predestined that His own elect would be in heaven, and he permits the sinners to remain where they keep choosing to be, apart from God in this life, so He eternal "honors' that request!
From reading the book, I don't think that Metzger believes that God desires people to perish. But he does seem to indicate that God chose to save a people out of fallen men (he does not seem to lean towards double predestination).
A certain Reformed author said something that went in the Double Predestination road. He may not have meant it or the book may have been corrected in the updated version as I have the 1st version. But I do not feel Metzger to be like this in my reading. Sometimes he has too many stories however.
Okay Yeshua is it that you cannot afford the book? If so I am sure either me or John C can buy you a copy just Let us know.
Its not that at all, its just why spead so much time on what he had to say on this issue, and instead see what the scriptures have to say about it?
By your logic there is no reason to listen to anything you say.
Ignore him he is disruptive.
Okay I read a bit of both books in our evangelism class tonight. The chapter Image is everything was good in the 5th Gospel, and I am on chapter 10 in Metzger's book. The Image is everything chapter probably stood out as it relates to my own situation. I remember years ago I took a class on evangelism at the undergrad level at a Charismatic school. While I tossed all the webber books they fed me, I did like Ravi Zacharias, and Josh McDowell. One lesson I learned in the class, but later forgot (thanks to WOTM) but later have relearned (thanks to Metzger) is to evangelize the intellect. The Charsismatics were against hitting the conscience, but Metzger completes a picture on evangelism.
This unbeliever I am chatting with has already admitted to breaking God's law, but he wants his intellect evangelized and has lots of questions. Talked with him on the phone tonight, and gave him a choice of books to read with me, which will bolden the many verses I gave him in defense of the vicarious atonement. He picked the book The Cross of Christ by John Stott and we will work through that book together. I am afraid this man is not saved, even though he admits to breaking the 10 commandments. He said one can hold to liberal theology and Christianity at the same time tonight which is false, as I bet he holds to this theology.
I am welcome to ideas as we will work through the book on the atonement so the scripture will come more alive to this man. Metzger speaks of evangelizing the whole person, and Conway speaks of being able to answer objections to Christianity and not just escape from their questions by using only the 10 commandments which is a good start but not complete.
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I am not sure if you will agree that this is relevant to the OP, and if not I apologize. I find its relevance in the different methods or motives in evangelism. Anyway, I was listening to a preacher who described God as using different ways to lead to repentance.
1. Sometimes God uses His goodness, His divine kindness, to cause people to
repent.
2. Sometimes God uses a conviction of sin and the threat of a final judgement.
3. Sometimes God uses overwhelming sorrow.
4. Sometimes just the revelation of God is enough.
I think that this speaks to the balance Metzger presents in evangelism. What do you think?
1. Sometimes God uses His goodness, His divine kindness, to cause people to
repent.
2. Sometimes God uses a conviction of sin and the threat of a final judgement.
3. Sometimes God uses overwhelming sorrow.
4. Sometimes just the revelation of God is enough.
I think that this speaks to the balance Metzger presents in evangelism. What do you think?
No, I will not --not on your say-so anyway.
Just answer my questions as best as you can. If you have read the book and absorbed the material then you should be able to answer my questions.
I would agree and why I have different tracts which have a different presentation. When I speak with people I generally use the 10 commandments, however sometimes I will use John 3:16 which does speak on the full gospel and not just love as so many think. The verse hits on Hell it hits on believing which always has repentance involved. So yes evangelism must be biblical or it's man centered.
Bottom line and Metzger says this. Evangelism must emphasize Gods justice and Holiness the same as his love. So many overdo on His Love and dodge his Holiness and Justice. I have open air sermons of me preaching on both attributes if you want to hear.
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I agree. I was listening to the MacArthur sermon, of how he believes God uses different aspects (and even only the love of God at times) and just thought how at odds he is with some "evangelists." Some think that you have to focus on sin, some love, and some a final judgement. But God uses different means to draw men unto Himself. Not understanding this, I believe, has led to an almost (if not an actual) mindset of idolatry in evangelism. Metzger's book just popped into mind as I listened to the sermon. We need to present the whole gospel message and not emphasize qualities that speak to our own mindset.
We need to speak/teach the Cross of Christ to them, and the Holy Spirit will be the one to open their eyes/hearts/mind, not our arguements and facts, as its not their minds that need to get saved, its they need to have a new nature!
He is open and bought the cross of Christ book as did I and lord willing the HS will grant him faith and repentance.