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Telling the truth in a misleading way

Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Well, here's another of my pet topics for this forum. I'm sure every reader here has been impatiently awaiting it.

While there should be no question at all that lying is a sin, suppose then people-- certainly myself; likely some of you reading this-- have a conviction against lying. What will they/you/I do? Always tell the truth to admit all the embarrassing details? Say almost nothing about anything? Even in the latter, there are going to be times when refusing to say anything will cost you-- maybe not just a job or relationship, but fines and jail or prison time.

So, there is that thing about telling the truth in a misleading way. Probably all of us have seen movies or read stories where a person said he or she "calmed him/her down to where (s)he no longer cares," when they actually mean they murdered that person. More reasonably within our domains [I hope], I know I have shared my little story about the man who didn't want to go to work one day... so he asked his wife to bring him a frozen dinner while he was still lying in bed; she brought it, he tossed it up then caught it, and got on the phone and said, "I'm not coming in today; I'm down flat on my back and I just threw up my dinner." What he said is true, unless that particular frozen dinner does not belong to him. And then there are little episodes,like where you may tell a hostess you 'don't care for onion dip,' as she has offered you some you presume is her recipe and you have tried it before and you detested it. And, of course, there is the double entendre, when, as in The Brady Bunch, you don't want to do something at a particular time with a particular someone, so you say "Something suddenly came up." Well, at just about any given time something somewhere is coming up-- the stock market, the water in any sea, the level of the baptistry being filled,... or in one those later BB movies when it had a different meaning still.

The reason this is on my mind is because of the social media, and when you reveal to your "Friends" [a limited list of them] something that just might work against you when all your Friends, then Friend of Friends, and so on, know it. So I thought about replying to this Friend's reply with doubletalk. But I decided to take the chance, slim as I think it is, that his revealing something that I preferred not to be revealed, was 'published' for his own Friends to see. It's ultimately my fault anyway, for letting anyone know something I didn't way just anybody to know.

But what is "telling the truth in a misleading way?" A lie just the same? Hypocrisy? Contrived dishonesty? A device to lessen the bluntness? ... And justified or not? Sin or not?
 

Rockson

Active Member
But what is "telling the truth in a misleading way?" A lie just the same? Hypocrisy? Contrived dishonesty? A device to lessen the bluntness? ... And justified or not? Sin or not?

Depending on what's going on. Rahab lied about the 2 spies who came to Jericho in Joshua 2, and God honored it. Some individuals lived out a lie, not so much by words but by actions by hiding Jews away from being taken and sent to camps in WW2. God would honor their acts of mercy. If you're out to someone's home for dinner and the host asks you how you liked what they made what is one to say....sorry I just couldn't stand it? There's probably always some aspect of it you did like so you mention that.
 

Scarlett O.

Moderator
Moderator
Depending on what's going on. Rahab lied about the 2 spies who came to Jericho in Joshua 2, and God honored it. Some individuals lived out a lie, not so much by words but by actions by hiding Jews away from being taken and sent to camps in WW2. God would honor their acts of mercy. If you're out to someone's home for dinner and the host asks you how you liked what they made what is one to say....sorry I just couldn't stand it? There's probably always some aspect of it you did like so you mention that.

God did not honor Rahab's lie. He honored her hospitality. At least that's what the New Testament says.

She is an example of faith in Hebrews and James. But not for lying. In Hebrews, she is in the roll call of the faithful for "welcoming the spies" and was "not killed with the disobedient".

In James, she was an example of faith for "giving lodging to the spies" and "sending them off in another direction".

She was never honored for lying to the king of Jericho about where the spies were.
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
Well, here's another of my pet topics for this forum. I'm sure every reader here has been impatiently awaiting it.

While there should be no question at all that lying is a sin, suppose then people-- certainly myself; likely some of you reading this-- have a conviction against lying. What will they/you/I do? Always tell the truth to admit all the embarrassing details? Say almost nothing about anything? Even in the latter, there are going to be times when refusing to say anything will cost you-- maybe not just a job or relationship, but fines and jail or prison time.

So, there is that thing about telling the truth in a misleading way. Probably all of us have seen movies or read stories where a person said he or she "calmed him/her down to where (s)he no longer cares," when they actually mean they murdered that person. More reasonably within our domains [I hope], I know I have shared my little story about the man who didn't want to go to work one day... so he asked his wife to bring him a frozen dinner while he was still lying in bed; she brought it, he tossed it up then caught it, and got on the phone and said, "I'm not coming in today; I'm down flat on my back and I just threw up my dinner." What he said is true, unless that particular frozen dinner does not belong to him. And then there are little episodes,like where you may tell a hostess you 'don't care for onion dip,' as she has offered you some you presume is her recipe and you have tried it before and you detested it. And, of course, there is the double entendre, when, as in The Brady Bunch, you don't want to do something at a particular time with a particular someone, so you say "Something suddenly came up." Well, at just about any given time something somewhere is coming up-- the stock market, the water in any sea, the level of the baptistry being filled,... or in one those later BB movies when it had a different meaning still.

The reason this is on my mind is because of the social media, and when you reveal to your "Friends" [a limited list of them] something that just might work against you when all your Friends, then Friend of Friends, and so on, know it. So I thought about replying to this Friend's reply with doubletalk. But I decided to take the chance, slim as I think it is, that his revealing something that I preferred not to be revealed, was 'published' for his own Friends to see. It's ultimately my fault anyway, for letting anyone know something I didn't way just anybody to know.

But what is "telling the truth in a misleading way?" A lie just the same? Hypocrisy? Contrived dishonesty? A device to lessen the bluntness? ... And justified or not? Sin or not?
Are you asking if you should tell this person the truth, that is, that you consider him a gossip and thus prefer not to share certain information with him?
 

Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Are you asking if you should tell this person the truth, that is, that you consider him a gossip and thus prefer not to share certain information with him?

No, just starting a discussion that was on my mind. And, I didn't think the one I mentioned couldn't be trusted, but since I did say it was only a certain few on my list that I was sharing this info with, I didn't think any of them would post anything about it that could a lso be seen by Friends, Friends of Friends, et al.

BTW this thread was not meant to be about whether lying can be justified to eliminate a greater evil [i.e., Rahab], but more often it would be about our clever ways to cover our own laziness, weakness, or embarrassment.
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Telling the truth in a misleading way

Is deception...

BUT could it be tempered by this:

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

What is the purpose of our deceptions (little white lies)?

To harm or not to harm?

I think the point of Rahab's lie is being missed.

She lied to save the lives of the spies.
 

Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Okay, now that I got home a little past midnight, I'll be more specific. I was staying in Taos for a few days, and, among other things, I finally got to go on a sleigh ride; something I have wanted to do for many years. I broke my own rule and posted some pics to that select few on my Friends list, I suppose, because it felt like a real goal achieved, which is something those in that select group have also shared with me. But one of them took the info that I was away from home and put that into his birthday card for me ["I see you're having fun in the snow on your birthday..."]. That card could be seen and shared by anyone on my list and his, and I strongly prefer that it not be known to just anyone that I am away from home. So I thought about responding: "Thanks, but it's good to be home"..."Thanks but I do like this computer I use at home"..."Yes, the fun was over too soon" -- statements that are true, but may have given the impression that I was back home by then. So, would that have been deception? dishonesty? double talk?
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
Okay, now that I got home a little past midnight, I'll be more specific. I was staying in Taos for a few days, and, among other things, I finally got to go on a sleigh ride; something I have wanted to do for many years. I broke my own rule and posted some pics to that select few on my Friends list, I suppose, because it felt like a real goal achieved, which is something those in that select group have also shared with me. But one of them took the info that I was away from home and put that into his birthday card for me ["I see you're having fun in the snow on your birthday..."]. That card could be seen and shared by anyone on my list and his, and I strongly prefer that it not be known to just anyone that I am away from home. So I thought about responding: "Thanks, but it's good to be home"..."Thanks but I do like this computer I use at home"..."Yes, the fun was over too soon" -- statements that are true, but may have given the impression that I was back home by then. So, would that have been deception? dishonesty? double talk?
Regardless, you run the risk of discussion that makes matters worse. Hindsight is 20/20. If you must be that social online, be so after you return. Next time you will know better.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
". . . all liars, . . ." -- Revelation 21:8
". . . not found written in the book of life . . . ." -- Revelation 20:15.
". . . not blot out his name out of the book of life, . . ." -- Revelation 3:5.
". . . And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. . . ." -- Hebrews 10:17.
 

Deacon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
In 1Kings 22:19-32 the Lord uses a lying spirit to decieve Ahab.

Be as wise as a fox.

Rob
 

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I strongly prefer that it not be known to just anyone that I am away from home. So I thought about responding: "Thanks, but it's good to be home"..."Thanks but I do like this computer I use at home"..."Yes, the fun was over too soon" -- statements that are true, but may have given the impression that I was back home by then. So, would that have been deception? dishonesty? double talk?

It might be a slight bit of dishonesty. But is it a sin? I don't think so.

When a soldier wears camouflage, is that deception? Sure. Is it dishonesty? Is it a sin?



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It might be a slight bit of dishonesty. But is it a sin? I don't think so.

When a soldier wears camouflage, is that deception? Sure. Is it dishonesty? Is it a sin?
Many animals employ camouflage

upload_2018-12-22_16-8-29.jpeg upload_2018-12-22_16-10-23.jpeg

Oh wait - yeah, evolution.
 

Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
There are a lot of things animals do by instinct that, if done by humans, would be sin, according to scripture. Beating up one of their own kind to take his food or his female... eating blood... being uncharitable....
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
There are a lot of things animals do by instinct that, if done by humans, would be sin, according to scripture. Beating up one of their own kind to take his food or his female... eating blood... being uncharitable....
Hmm, but God created these deceptive animals who are not deceptive on their own but said camouflage was provided by God

Strange though isn't it? That the camouflage given to these animals is either predatory camouflage (to the hunters) or protective camouflage (to the hunted).

Wouldn't that be a wash?
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
It might be a slight bit of dishonesty. But is it a sin? I don't think so.
When a soldier wears camouflage, is that deception? Sure. Is it dishonesty? Is it a sin?
Biblically, is there compelling reason to think that we must inform those who would mishandle information, and not limit by content or context? I'm inclined to say no.
 

Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Rahab deceived God's enemies, as did the Egyptian midwives. They did so to save innocent lives, and those, my friends, are acts of faith.

Then how about a cop who is working 'undercover,' who gives a false name and false occupation in order to catch a drug pusher?
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Rahab deceived God's enemies, as did the Egyptian midwives. They did so to save innocent lives, and those, my friends, are acts of faith.

I agree.
They did so to protect the Lord's anointed, and they were acts of faith. :)
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
Then how about a cop who is working 'undercover,' who gives a false name and false occupation in order to catch a drug pusher?
What about law enforcement, which can always, without limit or repercussion, legally lie to you to catch you in a lie that they can then legally use to convict you...of lying to them?:eek:
 
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