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Ten differences between Catholics and Non-Catholics

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Cathode

Well-Known Member
Yep. We believe the real presence of Christ is in the congregation but not in a unique way in the elements of the meal.

But, many Baptists do view the Lord's Supper as merely symbolic (unfortunately).


Many dark hours of the night and morning Catholics spend keeping watch with Jesus in the Eucharist. Many blessed with no outward sign for their whole lives.

We fully believe Jesus is truly present in His humanity and Divinity in The Holy Eucharist.

Me. I have no excuse, I have seen the Lord, it truly is The Lord Jesus in front of us. I don’t care what anyone says.

In a sense there is a Faith beyond Faith, and that Faith parts The Veil when we recognise The Lord at the breaking of the bread.
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
Well, all I know, is that I was at a Catholic funeral and the priest stated "We know Ann is in Heaven because she was baptized".

So, Walter -- is that priest correct?

My Rabbi friend who became Christian always from a young age had a gift for sensing the powerful presence of God.
This Psalm captured him from almost infancy.
“ One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to inquire in his temple.“

After experiencing Christ and believing, he went to Christian churches to pray. In all the Protestant churches he went to, he experienced Christ when the congregation had gathered, but when they dispersed, Christ was no longer present.
But the first day he entered a Catholic Church knowing no better, he was overwhelmed by Jesus Glorious Presence, such that he had to go out side in awe. And no one else was in the Church.

He desperately went to tell the parish priest about God dwelling in the Church, to which the priest said that Jesus is fully present in the Eucharist in The Tabernacle.

Today and since then, he spends every waking hour in front of The Eucharist. Can’t be moved by anyone.

The Eucharist is Jesus. That’s the great thing we have been trying to tell people for so long.
 
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JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Many dark hours of the night and morning Catholics spend keeping watch with Jesus in the Eucharist. Many blessed with no outward sign for their whole lives.

We fully believe Jesus is truly present in His humanity and Divinity in The Holy Eucharist.

Me. I have no excuse, I have seen the Lord, it truly is The Lord Jesus in front of us. I don’t care what anyone says.

In a sense there is a Faith beyond Faith, and that Faith parts The Veil when we recognise The Lord at the breaking of the bread.
I think the issue is we see that which we seek.

I don't mean that you do not see Christ in the Eucharist (don't get me wrong here, as I have seen Christ in Communion).

I am saying that anytime God's children seek to see Him all they have to do is look. He is ever present in and through His people.
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
I think the issue is we see that which we seek.

I don't mean that you do not see Christ in the Eucharist (don't get me wrong here, as I have seen Christ in Communion).

I am saying that anytime God's children seek to see Him all they have to do is look. He is ever present in and through His people.

I wish it were as easy as that bro. Just variable human perception.

Once you recognise Jesus in the Eucharist, you can’t unrecognise Him.

Whether we perceive Jesus or not in the Eucharist, it is still Jesus Himself.
Once you recognise, you know He was always uniquely there.

Something I have only witnessed in the Catholic Church.

That’s why I say that I have no excuse, I actually know it’s Jesus.

I don’t know why I a dumb savage have been shown, perhaps because I’m a dumb savage maybe, and I needed it.

But having seen, I envy those who haven’t seen and still believe in Jesus in The Eucharist.

If the Eucharist isn’t Jesus, why are the Angels always bowing down in front of it. That’s because it is Jesus. They wouldn’t bow down in front of anything else.

That’s why I can not be in any other belief, they don’t have the Eucharist.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
I wish it were as easy as that bro. Just variable human perception.

Once you recognise Jesus in the Eucharist, you can’t unrecognise Him.

Whether we perceive Jesus or not in the Eucharist, it is still Jesus Himself.
Once you recognise, you know He was always uniquely there.

Something I have only witnessed in the Catholic Church.

That’s why I say that I have no excuse, I actually know it’s Jesus.

I don’t know why I a dumb savage have been shown, perhaps because I’m a dumb savage maybe, and I needed it.

But having seen, I envy those who haven’t seen and still believe in Jesus in The Eucharist.

If the Eucharist isn’t Jesus, why are the Angels always bowing down in front of it. That’s because it is Jesus. They wouldn’t bow down in front of anything else.

That’s why I can not be in any other belief, they don’t have the Eucharist.
It is that easy, but it isn't just variable human perception - quite the opposite.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that angels bow down to the Eucharist (the wine and bread), but they do bow to Christ.

I'm saying that I am happy for you that you experience Christ in the Eucharist. I trust you also experience Him elsewhere.
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
It is that easy, but it isn't just variable human perception - quite the opposite.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that angels bow down to the Eucharist (the wine and bread), but they do bow to Christ.

I'm saying that I am happy for you that you experience Christ in the Eucharist. I trust you also experience Him elsewhere.

For now it is not given for you to understand these things, but one day you will. I have prayed for this and trust in it’s fulfilment.

But if I could convey only one thing to you before then, if nothing else. It’s the beauty of the Eucharist, it is beyond all description, it is a foretaste of Heaven.

You don’t believe me now, but you will not be satisfied eating the mere husks of bread and wine, only eating Jesus flesh and drinking His blood will satisfy you.

Jesus flesh is real food and his blood is real drink.
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
The sadness will come when people realise that they believed because they were shown, and not because they had faith and trust in Jesus own words. That’s the real sadness.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
For now it is not given for you to understand these things, but one day you will. I have prayed for this and trust in it’s fulfilment.

But if I could convey only one thing to you before then, if nothing else. It’s the beauty of the Eucharist, it is beyond all description, it is a foretaste of Heaven.

You don’t believe me now, but you will not be satisfied eating the mere husks of bread and wine, only eating Jesus flesh and drinking His blood will satisfy you.

Jesus flesh is real food and his blood is real drink.
I do understand the Eucharist. I have moved from a ritualistic view (I'm naturally inclined to appreciate things like sacraments). But as I grow older I have grown from many things that once held my interest.

Viewing the Eucharist as coming into contact with Christ is, perhaps, a stepping stone for many. In time they grow away from the crutch to experience a deeper relationship with our Lord and Savior.

I think in time you will be less satisfied with partaking of Christ in a few isolated moments and move towards a more permanent realization....if not in this lifetime, certainly in the life to come when the shadows you grasp give away to a more significant reality.
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
I do understand the Eucharist. I have moved from a ritualistic view (I'm naturally inclined to appreciate things like sacraments). But as I grow older I have grown from many things that once held my interest.

Viewing the Eucharist as coming into contact with Christ is, perhaps, a stepping stone for many. In time they grow away from the crutch to experience a deeper relationship with our Lord and Savior.

I think in time you will be less satisfied with partaking of Christ in a few isolated moments and move towards a more permanent realization....if not in this lifetime, certainly in the life to come when the shadows you grasp give away to a more significant reality.

We see the Eucharist as Jesus Himself coming to us in Covenant like the Covenant exchange of persons in marriage, two become one, not merely in some spiritual way, but personally.
Jesus is not just spiritual but physical as well, so He gives His entire Self to us and we give our entire self to Him in the Covenant exchange. The wedding feast of Christ and His Bride the Church.

“ He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood, abides in me and I in him.”

True Communion between us and Jesus.

At the consecration we believe that the bread and wine become Jesus Flesh and Blood, and in that Flesh and Blood His Divinity resides. It is Jesus Himself.
Jesus said He is the new Manna that comes down from Heaven.
The Manna that fell for Israel came down daily sustaining them through their journey, and daily we believe we receive Jesus Himself in the Eucharist sustaining us.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Ten Differences between the Reformation and Rome
AUTHOR Davies, Guy
CATEGORY Articles
DATE September 9, 2008

One

The Roman Catholic Church believes that its traditions and teaching are as authoritative as Scripture. The Reformed value tradition, but accept the Bible alone as their authority, and sole rule of faith and practice.

Two
The Roman Catholic Church believes that the Pope, as successor of Peter and Bishop of Rome, is head of the visible Church. The Reformed believe that Christ alone is head of the Church and that no man may claim universal primacy over the people of God.

Three
The Roman Catholic Church believes that the Bible cannot be properly understood apart from the official interpretation of Rome (the Magisterium). The Reformed believe that Christians have a responsibility to judge the truth of all teaching by the extent of its conformity to the teaching of the Bible as it has been commonly accepted with the help of responsible exegesis and the witness of the Spirit.

Four
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that we are justified by baptism and that justification must be supplemented and improved by works. The Reformed hold that the Bible teaches that justification is God’s declaration that a sinner is righteous in his sight, on the basis of faith in the finished work of Christ, apart from works. We are justified by faith alone. Baptism does not effect justification; it is the sign of it, as well as of the believer’s cleansing from sin and reception of new life in Christ.

Five
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the Lord’s Supper is a re-offering of the sacrifice of Christ and that the bread and wine are actually changed into the body and blood of the Saviour. The Reformed hold that that in Scripture the Lord’s Supper is a fellowship meal that is to be kept by believers in remembrance of the finished work of Christ. The bread and wine are significant symbols to believers of Christ’s body and blood. At the Lord’s Supper, they enjoy communion with the risen Christ, who is present at the Table by his Spirit.

Six
The Roman Catholic Church regards its ministers as priests. They re-offer the sacrifice of Christ at the Mass and act as mediators between God and the faithful, taking Christ’s role. The Reformed teach that all Christians are priests, who offer a sacrifice of praise and worship to the Lord. Some, called to be teachers and pastors, are ministers of the Word. Their task is to give themselves to prayer, the preaching of the gospel, and to care for the flock.

Seven
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that after death the souls of departed believers who have not made sufficient satisfaction for their sins in their lifetime go to purgatory in order to do that prior to going to heaven. The living can affect how long the departed have to spend in purgatory by observing Mass, obtaining indulgences, and praying for them. The Reformed hold that purgatory is not taught in Scripture. They believe, in accord with Scripture, that at death the souls of believers will depart from the body to be with Christ in heaven, awaiting the resurrection to life, glory and immortality.

Eight
The Roman Catholic Church believes that Mary can be invoked as mediatrix with Christ and that the faithful should pray to her and show devotion to her. Rome also teaches that believers should pray for themselves and for the dead to the faithful departed whom the Pope has designated as saints. The Reformed honour Mary as the mother of our Lord and see her as an example of obedience and love to God. They maintain that there is only one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, and that, despite the protestations of Rome, its teaching takes away from the sole mediatorship of Christ. Prayer and worship is to be offered to God through him alone.

Nine
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that there are seven sacraments and that these sacraments work ex opere operato, effectively conveying grace to those who receive them. For example, baptism regenerates and justifies, and participants in the Mass actually feed on the body and drink the blood of Christ. The Reformed find only two sacraments or ordinances in Scripture, baptism and the Lord’s Supper. These are means of grace that are only effective when received by faith.

Ten
The Roman Catholic Church regards herself as the one true Church through the apostolic succession of her bishops. Non-Roman Catholic Christians are regarded as ‘separated brethren’ who have schismatically divided the body of Christ. Reformed ministers are not truly ordained to the apostolic ministry. The Reformed define the Church not institutionally, but as a company of believing, godly people where the gospel is truly preached, baptism and the Lord’s Supper rightly administered and Church discipline graciously applied. The true apostolic succession consists not in the physical laying on of hands as understood by Rome, but in believing and preaching the gospel proclaimed by the apostles and recorded in Scripture.

Guy Davies is Joint-Pastor of Penknap Providence Church and Ebenezer Baptist Church in Wiltshire. This article appeared in the September/October 2008 issue of Protestant Truth.

Ten Differences between the Reformation and Rome
 

MrW

Well-Known Member
and that is the point!

Belief in Jesus is not sufficient
Salvation includes repentance

They believe in His existence.

They do not have faith in Him for salvation, and no, they do not repent of sins.
 

MrW

Well-Known Member
Water baptism is after a person has believed on Christ.

Catholic sprinkling water baptism cannot be a door to salvation because babies can’t repent nor trust Christ.

Christ is the ONLY door to salvation.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
We see the Eucharist as Jesus Himself coming to us in Covenant like the Covenant exchange of persons in marriage, two become one, not merely in some spiritual way, but personally.
Jesus is not just spiritual but physical as well, so He gives His entire Self to us and we give our entire self to Him in the Covenant exchange. The wedding feast of Christ and His Bride the Church.

“ He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood, abides in me and I in him.”

True Communion between us and Jesus.

At the consecration we believe that the bread and wine become Jesus Flesh and Blood, and in that Flesh and Blood His Divinity resides. It is Jesus Himself.
Jesus said He is the new Manna that comes down from Heaven.
The Manna that fell for Israel came down daily sustaining them through their journey, and daily we believe we receive Jesus Himself in the Eucharist sustaining us.
We see this as a daily reality celebrated particularly in Communion.
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
We see this as a daily reality celebrated particularly in Communion.

We have what’s called spiritual communion, if we are unable receive the Eucharist, travelling or critical obligations prevent attendance, or whenever it comes to mind.
This is by desire of our heart. It can’t replace receiving Jesus Himself, but still has powerful effects because Jesus loves to grant us the desires of our heart.

Acts of love no matter how pathetic, Jesus treats very seriously, because of His Infinite Goodness and Love.

For us there is great wonder at how He can humble Himself in this Covenant meal to make Himself completely available to commune with us individually down the ages.

Imagine you did believe Jesus made Himself disguised as mere bread just so He be fully present to abide in us and we in Him. To come to us in this humble appearance for our sensibilities sake, take His trusting rest in our heart, and we in His.

That Love boggles the mind and makes the miracle of loaves and fish, walking on water and turning water into wine pale in comparison.

I know many Protestants and Baptist’s take communion with Jesus very seriously, it is not a mockery. Jesus is the ultimate object of all our Love and many graces flow from Communion with Him.
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
Water baptism is after a person has believed on Christ.

Catholic sprinkling water baptism cannot be a door to salvation because babies can’t repent nor trust Christ.

Wow, so Protestant babies need to make a personal profession of faith first. Sounds like works based Salvation to me.
Catholic babies merely receive the free gift of Salvation at baptism, no works required.
Learn something new every day.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
Wow, so Protestant babies need to make a personal profession of faith first. Sounds like works based Salvation to me.
Catholic babies merely receive the free gift of Salvation at baptism, no works required.
Learn something new every day.
a newborn is NOT a Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Mormon or any other religion.
Putting a babys name on a church roll does not make a person a member of that group.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Wow, so Protestant babies need to make a personal profession of faith first. Sounds like works based Salvation to me.
Catholic babies merely receive the free gift of Salvation at baptism, no works required.
Learn something new every day.
a newborn is NOT a Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Mormon or any other religion.
Putting a babys name on a church roll does not make a person a member of that group.
God is responsible to save those whom He has chosen and elect. Jesus tells us that "all who the Father has given Him, He will not lose." This means that salvation is not in the hands of the RCC priests or the person making a public confession. Salvation is by God's grace alone. Faith is a gift of God, alone, that causes a person to believe that they are truly saved.
Baptism is, by some Christian traditions, a means of grace, not for salvation, but for entrance into the Covenant body of believers so that parents can raise their child in the faith and, by God's grace, God will enact His salvation of their souls, at God's exact time. It (baptism) does not save them and moreso, works do not therefore keep them saved. Such a belief is entirely contrary to what God tells us in the Bible and is a fabrication of tradition, outside of the Bible. Therefore, Cathode, your teaching is extrabiblical and invalid in regard to salvation.
Salty, one does not put a baby on a church roll. But, God does watch over a baby born to the elect and God gives them the benefits of living in Covenant fellowship until such time as they leave the Covenant of believers. This has been a church understanding since the beginning of church life in the 1st Century.
We Baptists see the call to water baptism as a confession of faith by the person who believes. Other traditions see the call to water baptism as the confession of the parents to bring their child into Covenant relationship via the Church. Thus, baptism is not salvation. The error is in those traditions that teach baptismal regeneration. It has lead to a false sense of salvation and a works based lifestyle.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
We have what’s called spiritual communion, if we are unable receive the Eucharist, travelling or critical obligations prevent attendance, or whenever it comes to mind.
This is by desire of our heart. It can’t replace receiving Jesus Himself, but still has powerful effects because Jesus loves to grant us the desires of our heart.

Acts of love no matter how pathetic, Jesus treats very seriously, because of His Infinite Goodness and Love.

For us there is great wonder at how He can humble Himself in this Covenant meal to make Himself completely available to commune with us individually down the ages.

Imagine you did believe Jesus made Himself disguised as mere bread just so He be fully present to abide in us and we in Him. To come to us in this humble appearance for our sensibilities sake, take His trusting rest in our heart, and we in His.

That Love boggles the mind and makes the miracle of loaves and fish, walking on water and turning water into wine pale in comparison.

I know many Protestants and Baptist’s take communion with Jesus very seriously, it is not a mockery. Jesus is the ultimate object of all our Love and many graces flow from Communion with Him.
Yes, we (at least some of us) do take communion very seriously. We typically view this as communion with Jesus and recognizing that covenant in His blood.

The biggest difference between our view, IMHO, is you see Communion as an event where Christ is abiding in you and you in Him where we see Communion as an expression of Christ abiding in us and us in Him.

At the same time there are many who view communion as merely symbolic (not sure why as people died for not taking communion in a worthy manner).
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
a newborn is NOT a Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Mormon or any other religion.
Putting a babys name on a church roll does not make a person a member of that group.

No you can tell if it’s a Catholic baby because they speak Latin if you listen closely enough.

Seriously though, this might highlight a distinctive. Catholics believe in lines of authority. The parents answer for the baby or child below the age of reason, they have spiritual and physical authority over their children.

We see this authority over again in scripture. Samson’s dedication for instance.

It’s the faith of the parents that operates on behalf of those under their authority.

It was the Faith of those friends and family of the paralytic that cured him. The Faith of the Roman centurion that cured his daughter.
The Faith of Martha that raised Lazarus.

“Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?”

The Faith of others can raise the physically dead and the spiritually dead at baptism.

It’s silliness to exclude babies and children from baptism when those having authority over them can answer in Faith for them, raising them from the tomb of Adam. Which is harder to believe, the physical rising from the dead or the spiritual rising from the dead, both can be achieved by the Faith of another.
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
Yes, we (at least some of us) do take communion very seriously. We typically view this as communion with Jesus and recognizing that covenant in His blood.

The biggest difference between our view, IMHO, is you see Communion as an event where Christ is abiding in you and you in Him where we see Communion as an expression of Christ abiding in us and us in Him.

We see it more as the renewal of the Covenant, where we personally become one with Jesus and He personally becomes one with us in His entire being. Humanity and Divinity, not just spiritual.

In His Flesh and Blood Humanity resides His Divinity, when we eat His Flesh and drink His Blood we receive Jesus entire Self.
His Flesh and Blood gives life to our flesh and blood, and has the power of the resurrection to raise us up on the last day. He alone is the Resurrection and The Life. He who eats His flesh and drinks His blood has Eternal Life.
 
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