Ten doctrines which render Rome outside of Christ

[Reformed]

The reformation was meaningless when it comes to believers. It was never meant to be a separatist movement in which the purity of truth would prevail. No the whole resides in the very name given.... REFORM .... that which one takes and attempts to modify.

The term "Reformation" was coined because of the intent of Luther's actions leading up to, and including, the posting of his 95 Theses. But alas, the best-laid plans of mice and men... Luther's attempt at reformation led to a full-out break with Rome. Luther himself was but mixture and error in many of his beliefs and ways. Luther's significance was the inertia he created in Saxony, which spread to all of Germany before enveloping Europe. The Papacy fought back but they could not stop the success of the Gospel that Paul mentioned in Philippians:


Philippians 1:12-18 12 Now I want you to know, brethren, that my circumstances have turned out for the greater progress of the gospel, 13 so that my imprisonment in the cause of Christ has become well known throughout the whole praetorian guard and to everyone else, 14 and that most of the brethren, trusting in the Lord because of my imprisonment, have far more courage to speak the word of God without fear. 15 Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will; 16 the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel; 17 the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this, I rejoice.

 

[agedman]

1. A lot of papists ended up becoming protestants.
2. The Catholic church was forced to come up with the "counter reformation" where they had to make some of the reforms Luther was demanding - just to stem the tide of defections from their group.

See, I have trouble with even this word "protestant." As if those who stood against the Papist in the previous centuries were protesting.

Just as any authoritarian would strike back at any who would be seen as undermining the authority, the Papists had long been active in "counter reformation" things. Long before Luther was born, the martyrs of the faith resounds as a loud irritating gong to the Papist ears. Centuries of excess and living off those that could ill afford the demands place the Papist as completely worthless when it comes to the things of Christ.

The Papist is anti-Christ.

 

[agedman]

The term "Reformation" was coined because of the intent of Luther's actions leading up to, and including, the posting of his 95 Theses. But alas, the best-laid plans of mice and men... Luther's attempt at reformation led to a full-out break with Rome. Luther himself was but mixture and error in many of his beliefs and ways. Luther's significance was the inertia he created in Saxony, which spread to all of Germany before enveloping Europe. The Papacy fought back but they could not stop the success of the Gospel that Paul mentioned in Philippians:

So, Luther got what he never desired.

What I am suggesting, is that long before Luther, the groundwork was already well planted by the lives of all who had gone before. Those who lead desperately significant lives to but a few, but which the Papist was vicious to destroy.

These are they that display the pattern of the Papist, the pattern was not a push back against Luther reformation, but was very long used to abuse and retain control. It was a hold over from the days of the Roman rulers who would stir the masses with believer's blood.

These were those, knowing the cost, would be slaughtered by the Papist only to be glorified by Christ.

Christ long before Luther rose in opposition to the Papist. It is that opposition that the Papist will use to continue to bolster itself, until God destroys that false Christ.

 

[Saint of Circumstance]

Here's what I know....
The Church of scripture is one united ecclesial body (Eph 4:3-4; Eph 4:13-16; Jn 17:21; Mt 16:18) without schismatic divisions (1 Cor 12:25; Rom 16:17; 1 Cor 1:10; Jude 1:19; Gal 5:20; 3 John 1:9-10), with one teaching for all the churches (Acts 15:22-23,25,28/Acts 16:4-5; 1 Tim 1:3; 1 Cor 1:10; Eph 4:5; Jude 1:3), and one bishopric authorized of and by the apostles (Titus 1:5) by the laying on of hands in ordination (Heb 6:2; 2 Tim 1:6; 1 Tim 4:14; Titus 1:5), sharing ministers back and forth among all churches (1 Cor 16:3; Rom 16:1,3,9,21,23; Phil 2:19,25; Titus 3:12), receiving one another in fellowship and in greeting (Rom 15:5-7; Rom 16:16; Col 4:10,12,14; 3 John 1:9-10), where excommunication removes individuals from this one body (Matt 18:17; 1 Corinthians 5:1-2,4-5), and which existed from the time of the Apostles unto today (Matt 16:18-19; Eph 3:21).

 

[Reformed]

So, Luther got what he never desired.

What I am suggesting, is that long before Luther, the groundwork was already well planted by the lives of all who had gone before. Those who lead desperately significant lives to but a few, but which the Papist was vicious to destroy.

These are they that display the pattern of the Papist, the pattern was not a push back against Luther reformation, but was very long used to abuse and retain control. It was a hold over from the days of the Roman rulers who would stir the masses with believer's blood.

These were those, knowing the cost, would be slaughtered by the Papist only to be glorified by Christ.

Christ long before Luther rose in opposition to the Papist. It is that opposition that the Papist will use to continue to bolster itself, until God destroys that false Christ.

I don't disagree, but neither am I going to make a big deal about picking apart some aspects of the Reformation. It's sort of like, "Remember the Alamo!" It serves a useful role as a focal point in Protestant history.

 

[agedman]

I don't disagree, but neither am I going to make a big deal about picking apart some aspects of the Reformation. It's sort of like, "Remember the Alamo!" It serves a useful role as a focal point in Protestant history.

I understand. But at least the Alamo actually accomplished something worthy of esteem.

I am not very certain of Luther’s contribution was all that voluntary and sacrificial.

 

[Adonia]

[

On what level do you place the Pope in regards to God?

There is God and then there is the rest of us, including the Pope, Bishops, and the rest of the clergy. The Pope is the head Bishop of the Catholic Church, the person who gives guidance to us in our faith journey. I hope that answers your question.

 

[Adonia]

and strive to teach them biblical truths

Too late - we already have biblical truth's and are very happy with them. Our difference lies with biblical interpretations and what you want is for us to believe YOUR interpretation. Sorry, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

 

[prophecy70]

[


There is God and then there is the rest of us, including the Pope, Bishop's, and the rest of the clergy. The Pope is the head Bishop of the Catholic Church. I hope that answers your question.

What about the whole Vicar of Christ?

 

[Adonia]

What about the whole Vicar of Christ?

God's representative here on earth. This goes way back you know, to the singling out of Peter, the "binding and loosing" clause, and the Apostolic Succession among other things. Anglicans in England also call their priests "vicar" too. So it's not such a unique appellation.

 

[agedman]

Why did the papist serve their lies through a language the common people did not understand?

Why did the papist so chase and murder anyone translating the Scriptures into the common language?

Money,
Power,
Control,
Each anti-Christ.

 

[agedman]

What is the greatest fear the Papist have,

The people holding Scripture as the final authority in all faith and practice.

 

[Adonia]

And this is exactly why I make the charge that the mass is blasphemous. Since the elements are transformed into Christ's body and blood (as stated at the Council of Trent), by necessity Christ is sacrificed upon the altar each time the mass is observed.

No, it is not by necessity that Christ is sacrificed over and over again at each Mass - it is just your false charge. The Mass is a memorial to Him, where we call to mind His passion, death, resurrection, and ascension. The Catechism asserts that, "The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit" (No. 1366). The actual sacrifice of Christ on the cross and the sacrifice of the Mass are inseparably united as one single sacrifice:

The Council of Trent in response to Protestant objections decreed, "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered Himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different," and "In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered Himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner." The actual sacrifice of Christ on the cross and the sacrifice of the Mass are inseparably united as one single sacrifice. So as you can see, as we delve further into the Catholic Church's teaching on this, we find that we are correct and you are wrong.

 

[Adonia]

What is the greatest fear the Papist have,

The people holding Scripture as the final authority in all faith and practice.

No, the final authority remains in the Church which was established here on earth by Jesus Christ Himself. Sola Scriptura is a false gospel! The Scriptures did not magically appear all by themselves, they were put together by the men who led the Church here on earth. Only chaos would be the result if each person were left to interpret the Scriptures by themselves and this is proved out by the many different Christian sects that exist, with each one claiming to have the real truth.

 

[agedman]

No, the final authority remains in the Church which was established here on earth by Jesus Christ Himself. Sola Scriptura is a false gospel! The Scriptures did not magically appear all by themselves, they were put together by the men who led the Church here on earth. Only chaos would be the result if each person were left to interpret the Scriptures by themselves and this is proved out by the many different Christian sects that exist, with each one claiming to have the real truth.

This is where you will remain wrong.

Before there was a church was the I Am, the Logos, The Word, The Scripture.

There is a HUGE difference between agreement on the cannon of Scriptures and one claiming only a select group can interpret the Scriptures.

The Papist would have common people think they are too stupid to read with comprehension the truth of the Scriptures, yet those same folks can discern and write computer code, write great company manuals and even textbooks from which the “interpreters” of Scripture got their education.

There is only one author of confusion- Satan.

Want to see confusion, look at the props the Papists must use just in their own cathedrals.

Swinging pots of smoke, idols hanging from floor to roof line, prayers made to those who are not God, traditions taking precedence over Scriptures, robes, crooks, hats, that have no place in the Christian worship, such a list can go on and on.

Just the thinking that some human who himself is a great sinner can forgive another’s sin, commit a soul to eternity, has authority to deny what God approves is enough to make any true believer run far from such.

Do you actually think God is pleased?

Do you actually think the church more authoritative than the Scriptures?

The Lord Jesus Christ said of Himself, “I am the way, the truth the life. NO MAN comes to The Father except THROUGH ME.”

Yet, you would rather choose Peter or Paul?

Do you not really know The Lord Jesus Christ?

 

[Reformed]

The actual sacrifice of Christ on the cross and the sacrifice of the Mass are inseparably united as one single sacrifice:

No matter how you slice it and dice it, mon ami, the mass perverts Christ's sacrifice on the cross. It turns Christ's actual sacrifice into a parlor trick that can be summoned at will by a Roman Catholic priest. So, I will make that charge and repeat it ad infinitum, ad nauseam.

 

[prophecy70]

No matter how you slice it and dice it, mon ami, the mass perverts Christ's sacrifice on the cross. It turns Christ's actual sacrifice into a parlor trick that can be summoned at will by a Roman Catholic priest. So, I will make that charge and repeat it ad infinitum, ad nauseam.

I've been to Mass before.

it's all belief and not actually a transformation correct?. Minus the "miracles" that are recorded if they are even real. Obviously it's still just bread and wine when you eat it. So it's just really in thought the body and blood. You couldn't DNA test the bread.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Too late - we already have biblical truth's and are very happy with them. Our difference lies with biblical interpretations and what you want is for us to believe YOUR interpretation. Sorry, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

I don’t want anything of you or your ilk.... truthfully I couldn’t care less what you choose to practice. That’s between you and God. I’m not the idiots yelling “Papist Papist” trying to stir up trouble. If they get to you then they think they won the argument. BTW, why are you in a Baptist Board forum? If you’re a RC, why aren’t you in some Catholic forum?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Why did the papist serve their lies through a language the common people did not understand?

Why did the papist so chase and murder anyone translating the Scriptures into the common language?

Money,
Power,
Control,
Each anti-Christ.

So what, they didn’t succeed, not in this country anyway.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I understand. But at least the Alamo actually accomplished something worthy of esteem.

I am not very certain of Luther’s contribution was all that voluntary and sacrificial.

So you don’t think it was noteworthy? How about Hus and Calvin?