ten-reasons-to-not-ask-jesus-into-your-heart-0

[JonShaff]

Good. Any agreement is always good.



We are not speaking of destined but predestined. Those God chose to give to His Son were never destined to hell, not even predestined to hell. If Christ had not come in the flesh, all would be destined to hell. But from the creation of the world, God chose His ppl, and predestined them to be conformed to the image of His dear Son.

All His sheep were never destined to hell.

Whoa, sorry...it's late. I missed a very key word...a doctrine will NOT send a person to hell, they were already destined from the word go.

 

[JonShaff]

No.....God alone knows what is fixed and certain to take place because he has determined who among fallen humanity He will extend mercy to.
That being said God also works through means....lying spirits,false prophets,false brethren.....accomplish the reprobation of non elect persons just as true preaching works effectually drawing the sheep in.
In Jer 6 the false prophets would speak peace ,peace to the reprobates.....comforting them in sin and unbelief....

Like I said to sovereignGrace, my apologies I missed a key word.

To say God ensnares the wicked with more wickedness is foul. The "god of this world" is the one who blinds the eyes.

Either way....Paul Washers statement is illogical in light of Calvinism.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Whoa, sorry...it's late. I missed a very key word...a doctrine will NOT send a person to hell, they were already destined from the word go.

Again, man was made without sin. He was not predestined to heaven, hell, purgatory, Valhalla, or any other place. When Adam sinned, we all sinned, being his posterity. God would have been just if He left us in our fallen state and died and went to hell. That was the destiny(destine) of all mankind if Christ had not come in the flesh. He came in the flesh to redeem His ppl, so save them from their sins, based solely on the fact that God predestined them to be conformed to the image of Christ.

 

[JonShaff]

Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

I've said all I can here. Paul Washer's statement that "the carnal christian doctrine sends more people to hell..." is illogical and inconsistent with Calvinism.

 

[Iconoclast]

Like I said to sovereignGrace, my apologies I missed a key word.

To say God ensnares the wicked with more wickedness is foul. The "god of this world" is the one who blinds the eyes.

Either way....Paul Washers statement is illogical in light of Calvinism.

Not at all.....false professors are told they are okay,when they are not yet saved.....the coast to the final judgment deceived as part of the,MANY of Mt 7.....depart from me....

 

[SovereignGrace]

Like I said to sovereignGrace, my apologies I missed a key word.

To say God ensnares the wicked with more wickedness is foul. The "god of this world" is the one who blinds the eyes.

Either way....Paul Washers statement is illogical in light of Calvinism.

What do you see in that doctrine that is illogical? Also, do you agree that ppl can be a carnal Christian? I ask to gain better clarity of your position. Thanks in advance.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Why the attitude, the angst with me? I think this is the first time I have conversed with you. And it was you who came in sideways.

I've said all I can here. Paul Washer's statement that "the carnal christian doctrine sends more people to hell..." is illogical and inconsistent with Calvinism.

Please explain why you think it's illogical. Thanks again.

 

[JonShaff]

What do you see in that doctrine that is illogical? Also, do you agree that ppl can be a carnal Christian? I ask to gain better clarity of your position. Thanks in advance.

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

His statement is illogical. I am not even talking about the specifics of "carnal Christianity"

 

[SovereignGrace]

Not at all.....false professors are told they are okay,when they are not yet saved.....the coast to the final judgment deceived as part of the,MANY of Mt 7.....depart from me....

Paul Washer's quote was spot on and consistent with all of his teachings. He's solid as they come biblically speaking.

Ppl say they are saved, they live worldly, but because they prayed a prayer, they are told they are alright. Until they stand before Him, that is.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

His statement is illogical. I am not even talking about the specifics of "carnal Christianity"

Why do you find it illogical? I think he's spot on. I am asking you to clarify your stance. Tell me why you believe it's illogical. Thanks again.

 

[JonShaff]

Why do you find it illogical? I think he's spot on. I am asking you to clarify your stance. Tell me why you believe it's illogical. Thanks again.

First, I enjoy listening to Paul Washer. I agree with most of what he says.

Now, I disagree with this specific statement, "the doctrine of carnal Christianity sends more people to hell..."

In light of calvinism, the doctrine of carnal Christianity is irrelevant when concerning the eternal destination (not destiny) of a soul. If a person wasn't elect then no matter what they believe, they are still going to hell. Carnal Christianity wasn't the determining factor of eternal hell for that person, it was because they weren't predestined to be among the elect.

 

[Iconoclast]

First, I enjoy listening to Paul Washer. I agree with most of what he says.

Now, I disagree with this specific statement, "the doctrine of carnal Christianity sends more people to hell..."

In light of calvinism, the doctrine of carnal Christianity is irrelevant when concerning the eternal destination (not destiny) of a soul. If a person wasn't elect then no matter what they believe, they are still going to hell. Carnal Christianity wasn't the determining factor of eternal hell for that person, it was because they weren't predestined to be among the elect.

No.....any in hell are their for their law breaking sins which are not covered by the blood of Christ. .....they are there justly for their sins.....not because of predestination.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

As this thread has passed the 200 post mark, the Six Hour Warning is in effect. Some time after 4:00 am Pacific time this thread will be closed.

Just a warning, be prepared for a Six Hour Warning, when this thread reaches the 200 post mark.

 

[SovereignGrace]

First, I enjoy listening to Paul Washer. I agree with most of what he says.

He's my fav. As solid as they come, in my opinion.

Now, I disagree with this specific statement, "the doctrine of carnal Christianity sends more people to hell..."

I think it's consistent with the rest of theology.

In light of calvinism, the doctrine of carnal Christianity is irrelevant when concerning the eternal destination (not destiny) of a soul. If a person wasn't elect then no matter what they believe, they are still going to hell. Carnal Christianity wasn't the determining factor of eternal hell for that person, it was because they weren't predestined to be among the elect.

Carnal Christianity approves of professed believers living like reprobates for extended periods of time. I agree that Christians sins. I agree we can commit gross sins. But to live like the world without having a life rife with repentance? Absolutely not. So that doctrine has ppl settling short of the saving grace of God. They are being fed this doctrine is biblical when i's not. If that's the case, ppl need to erase 1 John 3 or even erase the book of 1 John out.

Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.[1 John 3:4-6]

 

[JonShaff]

No.....any in hell are their for their law breaking sins which are not covered by the blood of Christ. .....they are there justly for their sins.....not because of predestination.

Ok, eitherway...the doctrine of carnal Christianity didn't send them to hell as PW suggests.

 

[SovereignGrace]

As this thread has passed the 200 post mark, the Six Hour Warning is in effect. Some time after 4:00 am Pacific time this thread will be closed.

Please don't. This is getting to bea really good thread. Please don't close it.

 

[JonShaff]

He's my fav. As solid as they come, in my opinion.


I think it's consistent with the rest of theology.


Carnal Christianity approves of professed believers living like reprobates for extended periods of time. I agree that Christians sins. I agree we can commit gross sins. But to live like the world without having a life rife with repentance? Absolutely not. So that doctrine has ppl settling short of the saving grace of God. They are being fed this doctrine is biblical when i's not. If that's the case, ppl need to erase 1 John 3 or even erase the book of 1 John out.

Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.[1 John 3:4-6]

I'm not saying I agree with carnal Christianity bro. I'm saying the doctrine of carnal Christianity doesn't send anyone to hell...it's the position of their soul in regard to a Just and Holy God that sends one to hell.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Ok, eitherway...the doctrine of carnal Christianity didn't send them to hell as PW suggests.

Ppl don't go to hell for being a carnal Christian, for being a Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, h0m0sexual, but based solely upon the fact they died in their sins, not have them atoned, covered by the Lamb's blood.

But that doctrine has caused many to believe they were saved and they were not.

 

[JonShaff]

But that doctrine has caused many to believe they were saved and they were not.

sure, I'm not doubting this.

All I'm saying is that PW made an illogical and untrue statement. Carnal Christianity does NOT send anyone to Hell as he says. Dying in their sin is what causes them to go to hell.

 

[SovereignGrace]

sure, I'm not doubting this.

All I'm saying is that PW made an illogical and untrue statement. Carnal Christianity does NOT send anyone to Hell as he says. Dying in their sin is what causes them to go to hell.

But what he is saying is this doctrine sends them to hell because they believe they are saved when they are not. They go around saying they're a child of the King, when they are nothing more than a proselyte Jew who is a twofold child of Satan of those who told them it was okay to live that lifestyle. They honestly think they are okay to live carnally and they are still saved. I agree with Brother Paul Washer and think he is spot on.

You have every right to disagree with it. I just think Brother Paul is on the $$$.