Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
How many of the prophets and apostles preached such warnings? They were also aware of God's Sovereign election and still preached against the damning doctrines of devils.
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ten-reasons-to-not-ask-jesus-into-your-heart-0
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Too bad this 'top ten' wasn't available years ago. How benighted some preaching could have been with the OP list as a guide! Instead we got stuff like:
Charles Spurgeon, "The New Year's Guest" (1883):
"The King of glory in a sinner’s bosom! This is a miracle of grace, yet the manner of it is simple enough. A humble, repenting faith opens the door, and Jesus enters the heart at once. Love shuts the door with the hand of penitence, and holy watchfulness keeps out intruders. Thus is the promise made good, 'If any man hears My voice, and opens the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me.'"
"He never dwelt in angels, but He resides in a contrite spirit. There is a world of meaning in the Redeemer’s words, 'I in them.' May we know them as Paul translates them, 'Christ in you, the hope of glory.'"
Charles Spurgeon, "The New Year's Guest" (1883):
"The King of glory in a sinner’s bosom! This is a miracle of grace, yet the manner of it is simple enough. A humble, repenting faith opens the door, and Jesus enters the heart at once. Love shuts the door with the hand of penitence, and holy watchfulness keeps out intruders. Thus is the promise made good, 'If any man hears My voice, and opens the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me.'"
"He never dwelt in angels, but He resides in a contrite spirit. There is a world of meaning in the Redeemer’s words, 'I in them.' May we know them as Paul translates them, 'Christ in you, the hope of glory.'"
None of your quotes actually speak to the language of the OP despite your misguided attempts to show otherwise.
The words found in the original post are not found in these quotes. It is good to see how you love quoting Calvinists many times even though you mean it for other reasons than we would.
Imagine if you remained in that church instead of leaving it, how often you could have heard these truths.
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Is it illogical for Paul to instruct Timothy to preach the Word against myths and fables that many believe and are deceived thereby, note 2 Timothy 4:ff? After all, the elect will be saved anyhow; John 6:37.
The thing is we are commanded to do these things, so we do them; 1 Corinthians 4:2; 1 Timothy 4:13ff. And yes, the elect will be saved and many will still be deceived. They want to be deceived, they love to hear false truths that exalt themselves, and God allows them to be deceived by judging them with false teachers whom they love, and who sratch their itching ears. Nonetheless we are still to expose them, and preach against them, lest we want to practice hyper-calvinism. They are to be denounced.
I see it in the same manner as preaching the Gospel - God will save His elect, yet we still remain faithful to the call, note 2 Timothy 2:8-10.
A sample of OP language for those who've forgotten:
"the door Jesus is knocking on is the door of the church, not the human heart."
In stark contrast to:
Hanserd Knollys, The World to Come (1681)
"Secondly, Open your hearts to Christ, when he knocks at the Door of your Souls, and calls you to come to him, to receive him, and let him come into your hearts, and dwell in your hearts by his holy Spirit, and sanctifying Grace, Rev. 3.20. Behold I stand at the Door and knock, if any man hear my voice, and will open the Door, . . I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. If the Sinner be willing to open the door of his heart, Christ will come in by his holy Spirit, and HE will communicate of his Grace to his Soul."
John Bunyan, The Doctrine of the Law and Grace Unfolded (1685)
"Object[ion]: But, I am afraid the day of Grace is past, and if it should be so, what should I do then?
Answ[er]: . . . .First, doth the Lord knock still at the door of thy Heart by his Word and Spirit? If so, then the day of Grace is not past with thy Soul; for where he doth so knock, there he doth also proffer, and promise to come in and Sup, (that is, to Communicate of his things unto them) which he would not do, was the day of Grace past with the Soul, Rev. 3. 20."
Thomas Killcop, The Pathway to Justification (1660)
"Obj: There is a passive receiving of Christ without a hand, when God forceth open mans spirit, and powreth in his Son in despite of the receiver.
Answ. This contradicts Christ, who saith, Behold I stand at the door and knock, if any man will open to me, I will come into him and sup with him, and he with me, Rev. 3.20."
Benjamin Keach, The Glory of God's Rich Grace Displayed (1694)
"O know you, Sinners, this Day, that Jesus Christ, this glorious King, and Prince of the Kings of the Earth, this mighty Saviour is come to your Doors: Behold, I stand at the Door and knock: Rev. 3.20. Will you not open the Door, nor cry to him to help you to open to him, to enable you to believe in him? What do you say, shall the Son of God stand at your Doors, and you not so much as ask, Who is there? Who is at my Door? Shall Christ be kept out of your Hearts, and stand at your Doors, whilst Sin commands the chiefest Room, and has absolute Power over you, and rules in you? How will you be able to look this Blessed Saviour in the Face another Day?"
Charles Spurgeon, "Knock" (1883)
"There stands the Ever-Blessed, knocking at the door of the soul, but the hinges are rusted, the door, itself, is fast bolted and wild briars and all kinds of creeping plants running up the door prove that it has been along time since it was moved. You know what it all means—how continuance in sin makes it harder to yield to the knock of Christ and how evil habits creeping up, one after another, hold the soul so fast that it cannot open to the sacred knocking. Jesus has been knocking at some of your hearts ever since you were children—and still He knocks. I hear His blessed hand upon the door at this moment! Do you not hear it? Will you not open?"
No Jerome.....it was not other falsehoods snipped.....it was true statements snipped but those who read your mostly out of context quotes being misused are used to it by now....if time permits I will look up the sermons offered and like Paul Harvey.....I will give the rest of the story...
You can try and justify it all you want...His statement is still illogical. Sin, not a doctrine, sends a soul to hell.
Pride is thick in this place.
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Hey bro, I hear what you're saying. Can we stick with the Scriptural position I presented? I'm only showing how Scripture backs this up somewhat.
dad1
Member
Well, if Jesus comes into the lost they ain't lost no more now are they?
If they open up the door to their hearts and let Him in....I suppose not. Smile
How does that old hymn go....
He's lookin' for home
'Cause everyone needs a place
And home's the most excellent place of all
And I'll be right here if you should call me
Hey bro, sorry for the late response. Been busy with my sermon and house work all day.
While your reply has merit, in my opinion, it's effects are related to sanctification and has no bearing on a person's position to our Just and Holy God.
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Brother, that's not remotely true about the texts given. Your last sentence is non sequitur due to this and thus you come to an erroneous conclusion.
LoL...so why is it written to believers?
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
OK, but I believe you are being a bit too strict in your hermeneutic here.
Show me how these passages are concerning sanctification brother. Even if they are concerning sanctification, (and they are not all concerning this) it stands that both the apostles and prophets warned everyone who named the name of Christ. We do not know who the elect are and who they are not. Note particularly Acts 20:27ff where Paul warns them all of grievous wolves among them, not to mention the other passages provided you are dismissing to some extent.
Your framework differs from mine so it Is unlikely we will agree anyway, but for a believer to understand the judgment of the unbeliever is crucial towards understanding how we do minister and plead with lost people. Yes it's a reality, but not necessarily the reality that has to be so.
dad1
Member
OK then so if we ask Jesus into our heart sincerely we are saved, I think you are saying?
If we come to the point where we have a genuine faith in Jesus as our Lord and Savior and we want to "invite Him into our heart" then He is already there. So yes, if we do that we are saved because only the saved can "invite Jesus into their hearts".
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Which is in reality what Washer was doing. Who knows who in the mix of those being taught carnal Christianity are the elect who will be saved out of that error to the knowledge of the truth. God uses this means of preaching to accomplish this as well.
In that sense I don't see Washer as being in error. As stated the prophets and apostles both warned peoples in the same manner.
dad1
Member
? When we reach some supposed point of being genuine and ask God to come in He is already there?? Why ask?
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