Tenn. assoc. disfellowships church with female pastor

[Revmitchell]

LAWRENCEBURG, Tenn. (BP) -- A Middle Tennessee Baptist association has voted to withdraw fellowship from a congregation that called a woman as pastor. At issue: the association's requirement that cooperating churches adhere to the Baptist Faith and Message.



The Lawrence County Association of Baptists, located some 85 miles southwest of Nashville, voted 73-4 during its annual meeting Oct. 12 that Greater Tabernacle Missionary Baptist Church in Lawrenceburg "be removed from the list of participating churches ... effective immediately," according to a copy of the recommendation provided to Baptist Press by the association.



After Greater Tabernacle called Shonda Reynolds Christian as pastor in June, "we asked them to reconsider," Lawrence Association director of missions Mike Kemper told BP. "They took two weeks, and they called us back and said, 'We have decided to keep our woman pastor.' So really, they made their own decision about that, knowing the consequences and knowing what would come."



About 10 Greater Tabernacle members were present for the discussion and vote, according to both the association and the church. Kemper said the Greater Tabernacle members did not vote or speak because the congregation "had failed to elect" them as messengers to the annual meeting.



Greater Tabernacle had not contributed financially to the association's work for at least six years before sending $25 preceding the vote, Kemper said.

http://www.bpnews.net/45692/tenn-assoc-disfellowships-church-with-female-pastor

 

[Darrell C]

Doesn't seem they were all that interested in remaining a member.

Can't see anything wrong with the decision.


God bless.

 

[tyndale1946]

Doesn't seem they were all that interested in remaining a member.

Can't see anything wrong with the decision.

God bless.

Do we follow the traditions of Men or scripture... If Timothy 3:1-7 was not in the Bible then there might be cause for argumentation... Since it is, it is a closed matter... The husband of one wife closes the matter as that is one of the qualifications of a Bishop... Women will be ordained but again it's not scriptural and will split many a church... And we know who is behind scattering the children of God... Yeah! Hath God said?... Brother Glen

 

[go2church]

Eh, much to do about nothing. Hadn't financially supported the association in six years, didn't even have elected messengers.

Wish the new pastor and church all the best in their new direction.

 

[JohnDBaptiste]

I used to actively pursue this subject (by that I mean I sought out women pastors and those who supported them). I had every argument down pat. I used Greek and Hebrew, pointing out that the Prophetess Deborah was to shame the cowardice men of Israel at the time (both in ministry and in the military). How Priscilla and Acquila may have been a team consisting of minister and hostess (which is a ministry of deacons). That Junia was outstanding among the apostles was merely the estimate of the apostles regarding her and not saying she was herself an apostle. Then I proceeded to point out that the spirit of Jezebel in Revelation deceived her followers by her teaching meant by the fact that it was a woman doing the teaching...

Then the Holy Spirit collared me. "Then it would be better that the Gospel message did not get out at all if it meant that women would teach or usurp authority over men?"

I was undone.

He was right. I was wrong. Every time there was shortfall of males (for whatever reason) God sent women. Deborah, the woman at the well, the women who discovered the empty tomb, Rhoda who saw Peter released from prison...

Then it began to come clear to me that Christianity suffers from an identity crisis mainly due to the fact that most believers buy into the unbiblical division of clergy and laity. We are ALL called to be priests before God in the New Covenant. The division of clergy and laity was Old Covenant after what happened in Exodus 32. In Exodus 19:6 God intended all Israel to be a kingdom of priests. But they blew it in the wilderness so badly that 3,000 people were slaughtered at the LORD's command. Never underestimate what happened there. And learn from the example that sin is to be avoided if for no other reason there are times when God is trying to make an important point and to be caught in sin at that moment is to draw severe judgment. Like when Moses was strickened from leading the people into the Holy Land for striking the rock twice. God was making a prophetic example that Moses blew. The rock was symbolic of Jesus who would be struck (crucified) only once.

1 Peter 2:3–9 (AV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

The Greek version of the Hebrew kingdom of priests:

Revelation 1:6 (AV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (AV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Estimates are that there are some 1 billion Christians on earth. There is nowhere near that many people in Christian ministry. So as long as we are in such a shortfall, we haven't the moral grounds to give grief to women pastors. And if we cannot abide them then we ought to step up into the pastorate ourselves fellows!

 

[tyndale1946]

I used to actively pursue this subject (by that I mean I sought out women pastors and those who supported them). I had every argument down pat. I used Greek and Hebrew, pointing out that the Prophetess Deborah was to shame the cowardice men of Israel at the time (both in ministry and in the military). How Priscilla and Acquila may have been a team consisting of minister and hostess (which is a ministry of deacons). That Junia was outstanding among the apostles was merely the estimate of the apostles regarding her and not saying she was herself an apostle. Then I proceeded to point out that the spirit of Jezebel in Revelation deceived her followers by her teaching meant by the fact that it was a woman doing the teaching...

Then the Holy Spirit collared me. "Then it would be better that the Gospel message did not get out at all if it meant that women would teach or usurp authority over men?"

I was undone.

He was right. I was wrong. Every time there was shortfall of males (for whatever reason) God sent women. Deborah, the woman at the well, the women who discovered the empty tomb, Rhoda who saw Peter released from prison...

Then it began to come clear to me that Christianity suffers from an identity crisis mainly due to the fact that most believers buy into the unbiblical division of clergy and laity. We are ALL called to be priests before God in the New Covenant. The division of clergy and laity was Old Covenant after what happened in Exodus 32. In Exodus 19:6 God intended all Israel to be a kingdom of priests. But they blew it in the wilderness so badly that 3,000 people were slaughtered at the LORD's command. Never underestimate what happened there. And learn from the example that sin is to be avoided if for no other reason there are times when God is trying to make an important point and to be caught in sin at that moment is to draw severe judgment. Like when Moses was strickened from leading the people into the Holy Land for striking the rock twice. God was making a prophetic example that Moses blew. The rock was symbolic of Jesus who would be struck (crucified) only once.

1 Peter 2:3–9 (AV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

The Greek version of the Hebrew kingdom of priests:

Revelation 1:6 (AV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (AV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Estimates are that there are some 1 billion Christians on earth. There is nowhere near that many people in Christian ministry. So as long as we are in such a shortfall, we haven't the moral grounds to give grief to women pastors. And if we cannot abide them then we ought to step up into the pastorate ourselves fellows!

I used to actively pursue this subject (by that I mean I sought out women pastors and those who supported them). I had every argument down pat. I used Greek and Hebrew, pointing out that the Prophetess Deborah was to shame the cowardice men of Israel at the time (both in ministry and in the military). How Priscilla and Acquila may have been a team consisting of minister and hostess (which is a ministry of deacons). That Junia was outstanding among the apostles was merely the estimate of the apostles regarding her and not saying she was herself an apostle. Then I proceeded to point out that the spirit of Jezebel in Revelation deceived her followers by her teaching meant by the fact that it was a woman doing the teaching...

Then the Holy Spirit collared me. "Then it would be better that the Gospel message did not get out at all if it meant that women would teach or usurp authority over men?"

I was undone.

He was right. I was wrong. Every time there was shortfall of males (for whatever reason) God sent women. Deborah, the woman at the well, the women who discovered the empty tomb, Rhoda who saw Peter released from prison...

Then it began to come clear to me that Christianity suffers from an identity crisis mainly due to the fact that most believers buy into the unbiblical division of clergy and laity. We are ALL called to be priests before God in the New Covenant. The division of clergy and laity was Old Covenant after what happened in Exodus 32. In Exodus 19:6 God intended all Israel to be a kingdom of priests. But they blew it in the wilderness so badly that 3,000 people were slaughtered at the LORD's command. Never underestimate what happened there. And learn from the example that sin is to be avoided if for no other reason there are times when God is trying to make an important point and to be caught in sin at that moment is to draw severe judgment. Like when Moses was strickened from leading the people into the Holy Land for striking the rock twice. God was making a prophetic example that Moses blew. The rock was symbolic of Jesus who would be struck (crucified) only once.

1 Peter 2:3–9 (AV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

The Greek version of the Hebrew kingdom of priests:

Revelation 1:6 (AV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (AV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Estimates are that there are some 1 billion Christians on earth. There is nowhere near that many people in Christian ministry. So as long as we are in such a shortfall, we haven't the moral grounds to give grief to women pastors. And if we cannot abide them then we ought to step up into the pastorate ourselves fellows!

Many times in scripture the Woman... Virgin... Bride... Chaste is representative of the church... The church is the bride and the bridegroom is Christ... The Apostate Church is also representative of a Woman... Whore, Jezebel and the daughters of a whore, unchaste and any other designation you might want to add of a fallen woman... So if the bride usurps the authority of the bridegroom who is Christ what women is she?... Brother Glen

 

[Revmitchell]

The number of Christians in the world has nothing to do with who God calls to be pastor. There is no division between laity and pastors. Not sure where people get this stuff from.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I have two grown-up daughters and have educated them extensively and expensively. I have encouraged them to take on any honourable profession they wish, be it doctor, lawyer, teacher, politician. But preaching and pastoring have been reserved by God for men. Women preaching in churches does not lead to a malaise, it is the sign of that malaise- that the church or denomination in question has already departed from the word of God.

'Sir, a woman preaching is like a dog walking on its hinder legs. It is not done well, but you are surprised to see it done at all' (Dr. Samuel Johnson).

 

[Zaac]

Eh, much to do about nothing. Hadn't financially supported the association in six years, didn't even have elected messengers.

Wish the new pastor and church all the best in their new direction.

Hopefully this sheds a little more light on the situation. IMO, it was handled the only way it could be handled.

Statement from Mike Kemper, Director of Missions for the Lawrence County Association of Baptists:

RE: Greater Tabernacle Missionary Baptist Church

DATE: 10/20/2015

The developments and action by the Lawrence County Association of Baptists related to Greater Tabernacle Baptist Church is indeed a sad happening. In researching the history and relationship with GTMBC, it is clearly documented that the initial beginnings of the church were filled with good motives with spiritual guidance. I have these records in my office files! However, due to their actions, "calling a woman as pastor," we prayed and met with GTMBC since early July, with our last meeting being Sunday, Oct 11., we felt "that things were not going to change" thus the report and recommendation of our Credentials Committee to "remove GTMBC from our list of participating churches….immediately, and refer the decision regarding the "reversion clause" included in their deed to our Executive Committee." The decision of the LCAB messengers meeting in Annual Session on Oct. 12 was 73 in favor and 4 voting "no".

Ms. Christian was "not happy" with the decision, obviously she contacted NewsChannel 5. The NewsChannel 5 reporter Rebecca Schleicher interviewed me for more than 10 minutes, during which time I explained the reasons for our actions. When they aired their story that evening, they cut all of my comments out except about 11 seconds. It was a very "one sided" story, which made it look like we were the mean spirited people who were going to "take their property away from them." I felt we were not treated fairly, and their story only served to evoke emotional feelings about how badly they were being treated.

The issue is NOT about race! Though the church is predominately an African American congregation. The issue is NOT an attack on women, as I had noted that women have always provided much service, leadership and ministry in our churches and our association. We had gone over this several times with GTMBC members and Mrs. Christian in our meetings. It is about our strongly held conviction that the role of pastor is assigned to men as defined in I Timothy 3:1-7. It is the fact that the basis for fellowship and cooperation among churches in our association is defined by scripture and our guiding documents, including the "2000 Baptist Faith & Message" which states "…the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by scripture." The decisions they (GTMBC) had made left us with no other option other than to do what we did.

Ms. Christian & GTMBC members were told about the possible consequences of their decision several times in those meetings, verbally and by sighting their documents and our documents. They knew very well that they could not remain a part of the association with Ms. Christian as their pastor. They knew full well about the "reversion clause" in their deed. And, by the way, two of the GTMBC men who signed the original documents which included the "reversion clause" have been in our meetings and discussions. They knew as early as this past July what those consequences would be if they held to their decisions. NewsChannel 5 did not report the fact that Ms. Christian and a contingency of at least 7 other members of the church were present at our Annual Meeting on Oct. 12th. They were present for the recommendation of the committee and present for the ballot vote, and they were present when the announcement was made regarding the results of the vote. It came as no surprise to them. They were treated with respect, and welcomed at the meeting.

Regardless of how one might feel about "women as pastors", the GTMBC had in "good faith" agreed from it's inception that it would always remain a Southern Baptist Church in close relationship with the Lawrence County Association of Baptists. The church was planted, sustained, funded, and prayed for by Faith Baptist Church in Loretto, TN., Meadow View Baptist Church in Lawrenceburg, and the Lawrence County Association of Baptists. This is also clearly documented with articles, pictures, and documents from 1989 when the church was begun, to 1992 when property had been purchased on their behalf, and the building was built with donations of materials, money, and labor of Lawrence County Association of Baptists. As well as in 1996 when a loan was signed and secured by trustees of LCAB. We did nothing that had not already been agreed to by the GTMBC congregation.

I/we felt that the church, even though they were present at the meeting was due a written explanation and notice. I/we finished that letter Wednesday afternoon (Oct. 14). The church had not provided us with Ms. Christians mailing address. Knowing that Ms. Christian drives in from Murfreesboro (where she lives) on Wednesday and Sunday mornings, I wanted them to have the letter that evening (Wednesday). We mailed, via USPS, original copies to the church address, and another member of the church (LaSonya Moore), to our Association Moderator and the Credentials committee members. I knew they would not receive those letters until possibly Friday or Saturday. I was going to another church to visit in their Revival that evening. Knowing that it is illegal to put anything in their mail box out front, I did put a copy in the door. I felt it was a courtesy, but NewsChannel 5 made out like this was the first they knew about it and that we had notified them in a less than professional/Christian way. NOT TRUE!

We continue to love GTMBC as she is one of "our children" even though they have taken decisions that go against their birth and upbringing, we love them. And, in the right way would bring them back into fellowship should they desire.

Mike Kemper

http://lawcobaptist.org/greater-tabernacle

 

[Zaac]

I have two grown-up daughters and have educated them extensively and expensively. I have encouraged them to take on any honourable profession they wish, be it doctor, lawyer, teacher, politician. But preaching and pastoring have been reserved by God for men. Women preaching in churches does not lead to a malaise, it is the sign of that malaise- that the church or denomination in question has already departed from the word of God.

'Sir, a woman preaching is like a dog walking on its hinder legs. It is not done well, but you are surprised to see it done at all' (Dr. Samuel Johnson).

Absolutely. When this issue arises, I always ask are there any men in the congregation or is the woman trying to pastor have a husband?
God is a God of ORDER.
He doesn't create confusion. Man's opinion does.

God HAS NOT called a man to be head of his household( in which his wife submits to him) to turn around and go to God's house and be in submission to his wife. That's just crazy. And again, God does NOT author confusion.

 

[righteousdude2]

Absolutely. When this issue arises, I always ask are there any men in the congregation or is the woman trying to pastor have a husband?
God is a God of ORDER.
He doesn't create confusion. Man's opinion does.

God HAS NOT called a man to be head of his household( in which his wife submits to him) to turn around and go to God's house and be in submission to his wife. That's just crazy. And again, God does NOT author confusion.

Absolutely. When this issue arises, I always ask are there any men in the congregation or is the woman trying to pastor have a husband?
God is a God of ORDER.
He doesn't create confusion. Man's opinion does.

God HAS NOT called a man to be head of his household( in which his wife submits to him) to turn around and go to God's house and be in submission to his wife. That's just crazy. And again, God does NOT author confusion.

He may not be the author of confusion, but how do we explain you and your views? I know he doesn't make mistakes, but then there's you?

Just kidding with you but you did leave yourself open for the above. God loves us all, and He used women throughput the old and new testaments. So if you don't like women preachers, you can simply not attend that church. Just don't judge the message based on hormonal make up, or DNA!

 

[matt wade]

He may not be the author of confusion, but how do we explain you and your views? I know he doesn't make mistakes, but then there's you?

Just kidding with you but you did leave yourself open for the above. God loves us all, and He used women throughput the old and new testaments. So if you don't like women preachers, you can simply not attend that church. Just don't judge the message based on hormonal make up, or DNA

You're liberal side is showing on this Dude. We all know you have no problem with divorced pastors and now you think women pastors are OK too? Typical California liberal.

 

[annsni]

God has used women greatly all through the history of His kingdom - but not once did He install one as a spiritual leader of the church. That His word clearly gives us the qualifications for a pastor/elder and that includes being a man. Yes, women are able to be pastors - when we disobey the word of God. For those God has gifted greatly in this area, women don't have to sit at home disregarding these gifts but there are a GREAT number of positions women can hold without holding the title of pastor. I'm grateful for those women in my life who have been a mentor/teacher to me and I have learned so much from them.

 

[tyndale1946]

God has used women greatly all through the history of His kingdom - but not once did He install one as a spiritual leader of the church. That His word clearly gives us the qualifications for a pastor/elder and that includes being a man. Yes, women are able to be pastors - when we disobey the word of God. For those God has gifted greatly in this area, women don't have to sit at home disregarding these gifts but there are a GREAT number of positions women can hold without holding the title of pastor. I'm grateful for those women in my life who have been a mentor/teacher to me and I have learned so much from them.

I remember this line from a movie I saw... A mother was talking to her daughter before she got married... Remember dear the Mother said the Man is the head of the family but she said the Woman is the neck that turns the head... Which bears this question and then I will bow out of this discussion... What neck or necks turned what head or heads... Remember King Solomon?... Brother Glen

 

[Kevin]

.

 

[righteousdude2]

I don't see where it is up to us to change the rules God setup for us, and the Church, just to be PC. The Bible is clear on the subject of who is qualified to be a leader, and that rules out women, and and most divorced men.

I see your point on divorced men and the role of pastor. Divorce is SIN.However, I think that we both agree that a sin confessed is a sin forgiven. And if that premise is followed, then a remorseful man of God can be forgiven and restored to the role of pastor.

As for a woman, if the church is willing to allow them to teach their children and youth, but deny them the opportunity to serve as a pastor, then that seems a little hypocritical.

 

[Zaac]

I see your point on divorced men and the role of pastor. Divorce is SIN.However, I think that we both agree that a sin confessed is a sin forgiven. And if that premise is followed, then a remorseful man of God can be forgiven and restored to the role of pastor.

A remorseful and restored man of God should go back and be reconciled to his wife if she is alive.

As for a woman, if the church is willing to allow them to teach their children and youth, but deny them the opportunity to serve as a pastor, then that seems a little hypocritical

.

12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 1 Tim. 2:12 Clearly says MAN and not boys or children.

 

[Kevin]

.

 

[annsni]

A remorseful and restored man of God should go back and be reconciled to his wife if she is alive.

That's kind of tough to do if the ex spouse is remarried.

 

[John Public]

It is a closed case issue when one considers there were no female pastors in the New Testament.