Terror on the Strip! Sniper guns down concert goers ...

[TCassidy]

I certainly think it is wrong to use it as a statement for Christians to go beyond self defense and to engage in war against a government over "rights".

Jesus approved of self defense. As do I. I do not advocate the overthrow of the US government. The framers of the Constitution certainly allowed for such, their immediate backgrounds still fresh in their minds. But we are far from that today.

I tend to agree with the "box" progression. How do we change our government? "There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box and the ammo box. Please use them in that order."

 

[Reynolds]

Jesus approved of self defense. As do I. I do not advocate the overthrow of the US government. The framers of the Constitution certainly allowed for such, their immediate backgrounds still fresh in their minds. But we are far from that today.

I tend to agree with the "box" progression. How do we change our government? "There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box and the ammo box. Please use them in that order."

I fully agree, but the time might come when the government has become so tyrannical that the last option will be called for.

 

[KenH]

Where did Jesus ever say during His earthly ministry that it is okay to kill another human being in self defense? Yes, we live in a fallen world and we all do things we would never do if Adam had not sinned in the Garden of Eden; thus, knowing the right thing to do can be extremely difficult in some situations. Ultimately, we must throw ourselves on God's mercy and grace and the finished work of His Son on the behalf of His fallen creation.

 

[TCassidy]

Where did Jesus ever say during His earthly ministry that it is okay to kill another human being in self defense? Yes, we live in a fallen world and we all do things we would never do if Adam had not sinned in the Garden of Eden; thus, knowing the right thing to do can be extremely difficult in some situations. Ultimately, we must throw ourselves on God's mercy and grace and the finished work of His Son on the behalf of His fallen creation.

Yes. It is obvious that the swords He commanded His disciples to buy were for cutting bread.

 

[Reynolds]

Yes. It is obvious that the swords He commanded His disciples to buy were for cutting bread.

Nope, peeling apples.

 

[LowOiL]

Junk, eh? Better than being pro-death...

Quote me so I know you are replying please. Thanks. Helps me keep up with cheap shots from above like a sniper.


What exactly is pro-death. Another gibberish term? How about those that support disarming law abiding citizens so they can't defend themselves or their families. That sounds pro-death to me. A right from God, the right to defend oneself (and family) from those that wrongfully do them harm.

You say "Don't they (victims) have the right to life? And doesn't that right trump other rights?"

Yes the victims had a right to not be wrongfully harmed. No life is not lived in a vacuum where you are not subject to dangers unless you somehow manage to put yourself in such a situation. Example: Rich Hollywood liberals like to go on and on like you do about gun grabbing, all the while having paid armed guards with guns to protect them from the general masses.

Example: some of those that marched in anti-gun protests did so with the knowledge their own security men were on the flanks (w/guns) protecting them.

IOWs, hypocritically wanting to take the very means for others to protect themselves while maintaining that very safety for themselves.

Freedoms don't come without a price, just waking up and driving to work does not mean it is risk free. Yet you don't see many suggesting taking one of the main takers of life (cars) away. Well there are a few now that are that far commie and do.

The other day some talking head New reporter said getting a dialog going with gun folks was near impossible. They don't want dialog, they want to grab guns, why hold a dialog with such people. Tell them "shall NOT be infringed" and walk away?

 

[KenH]

Yes. It is obvious that the swords He commanded His disciples to buy were for cutting bread.

Yet when used, Jesus told them not to do so.

 

[LowOiL]

@Matt Black

You mentioned upthread (and I am too lazy to find the quote) that nowhere has the people used the 2nd to defend themselves from Washington (overthrow)...

Actually "The Battle of Athens" was such a scenario that had it's roots all the way up to Washington. A true story too.

It is also a feature length film free for viewing on YouTube that all history buffs should watch.

Read about the democratic machine that had deep roots all the way to Washington. Read how corrupt it was.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Where did Jesus ever say during His earthly ministry that it is okay to kill another human being in self defense? Yes, we live in a fallen world and we all do things we would never do if Adam had not sinned in the Garden of Eden; thus, knowing the right thing to do can be extremely difficult in some situations. Ultimately, we must throw ourselves on God's mercy and grace and the finished work of His Son on the behalf of His fallen creation.

Was it ok to use guns to stop Hitler ?

 

[TCassidy]

Yet when used, Jesus told them not to do so.

No, he said not to use them incorrectly.

 

[KenH]

The question for us is really was it okay for Christians to use weapons to defeat Hitler. Lots of words have been used on that subject in the past 2000 years with Christians coming up with different answers. I thank God that I have never had to decide that question personally(and pray I never will) and ask Him to have mercy and grace on those who have done so and will do so.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

So you won’t answer.

But you WILL say self defense is wrong.

 

[KenH]

Not saying it is wrong, just that we have no New Testament example to go by; thus, we decide knowing we are fallen humans dealing with other fallen humans. We know that even our righteous acts are tainted by our sinful nature, so a Christian taking another human’s life is a really, really difficult decision to make. It certainly is not one for anyone to be cavalier about. Without God’s mercy and grace and the finished work of Christ we would have no hope for even our best deeds from a human viewpoint.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

You’re arguments on this thread indicate you think people who kill in self defense need forgiveness for doing so.

 

[TCassidy]

Augustine of Hippo laid the foundations for Jus Ad Bellum. Nine hundred years later Thomas Aquinas pretty much finished the superstructure.

Although it does not completely speak to an individual right (but addresses the proper governmental authority) it makes irrefutable points regarding purpose and ultimate motive.

In the case of using violent means for self-defense, or the defense of others, the points are pretty clear.

1. My life, or the life of a loved one, does not belong to the one who wishes me harm. The authority to defend my life lies with me.

2. The purpose of self-defense is just and right as it is the defense of my life which is made in the image and likeness of Almighty God.

3. The ultimate goal of self-defense is to stop the attack and restore peace.

Not many Christians today are willing to research deeply the considerations and conclusions of the great theologians of the past. We live in an "instant gratification" world where simplistic answers are sought for complex questions. American Christendom is 3 thousand miles wide and about a 1/2 inch deep.

 

[Reynolds]

Someone help me out here. Why does the left hate "gun violence" so badly and defend and support the mass genocide of the unborn?

 

[TCassidy]

Someone help me out here. Why does the left hate "gun violence" so badly and defend and support the mass genocide of the unborn?

Because they are mentally unbalanced?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.

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