Testimony

[Priscilla Ann]

You miss the point. Sure there are lost people in other denominations....but teaching heresy like Roman Catholicism is what PREVENTS them from being saved. Apples and Oranges.

This really is true. Catholics are taught that the church is infallible in their teaching on faith and morals. It is a circular reasoning that goes something like this:

• The Catholic Church is infallible.
• How do we know that the Catholic Church is infallible?
• Because the Catholic Church teaches that it is.
• How do we know that this Catholic teaching is true?
• Because the Church is infallible...

Many times Catholics will use Matthew 16:16-23 to support their view of the papacy and the Church's authority. If you ask a priest, "How do we know that the Catholic Church interprets these verses correctly?", the answer is that the Catholic Church is infallible...and the circular reasoning continues.... I have had this conversation more times than I can count (with a priest and members of own family)! Catholics trust the Catholic Church more than they trust God's Word, and they believe only the Catholic Church's interepretation of scripture. I was once told by a Catholic priest that I shouldn't be reading the bible unless it was with a Catholic commentary!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

This really is true. Catholics are taught that the church is infallible in their teaching on faith and morals. It is a circular reasoning that goes something like this:

• The Catholic Church is infallible.
• How do we know that the Catholic Church is infallible?
• Because the Catholic Church teaches that it is.
• How do we know that this Catholic teaching is true?
• Because the Church is infallible...

Many times Catholics will use Matthew 16:16-23 to support their view of the papacy and the Church's authority. If you ask a priest, "How do we know that the Catholic Church interprets these verses correctly?", the answer is that the Catholic Church is infallible...and the circular reasoning continues.... I have had this conversation more times than I can count (with a priest and members of own family)! Catholics trust the Catholic Church more than they trust God's Word, and they believe only the Catholic Church's interepretation of scripture. I was once told by a Catholic priest that I shouldn't be reading the bible unless it was with a Catholic commentary!

That is not quite their argument. You are right that Catholics believe what the church teaches. The church teaches what it does because they claim the Apostles taught them it. Its called the deposit of faith.

But then I have a question for you. How do you know your interpretation is valid?

 

[Dr. Walter]

This really is true. Catholics are taught that the church is infallible in their teaching on faith and morals. It is a circular reasoning that goes something like this:

• The Catholic Church is infallible.
• How do we know that the Catholic Church is infallible?
• Because the Catholic Church teaches that it is.
• How do we know that this Catholic teaching is true?
• Because the Church is infallible...

Many times Catholics will use Matthew 16:16-23 to support their view of the papacy and the Church's authority. If you ask a priest, "How do we know that the Catholic Church interprets these verses correctly?", the answer is that the Catholic Church is infallible...and the circular reasoning continues.... I have had this conversation more times than I can count (with a priest and members of own family)! Catholics trust the Catholic Church more than they trust God's Word, and they believe only the Catholic Church's interepretation of scripture. I was once told by a Catholic priest that I shouldn't be reading the bible unless it was with a Catholic commentary!

There are Catholic apologists on this forum who deny being Catholic - but don't let that denial fool you one bit. They are Catholic IN ESSENTIAL CATHOLIC DOCTCRINE.

They will no doubt challenge how you know the truth. Here is the Biblical response:

1 Jn. 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[Dr. Walter]

That is not quite their argument. You are right that Catholics believe what the church teaches. The church teaches what it does because they claim the Apostles taught them it. Its called the deposit of faith.

But then I have a question for you. How do you know your interpretation is valid?

Yeah right!!!! So you simply move the peg back one notch and how can we beleve the Apostles taught them?? Bingo! Because they claim it!

Rome is "accursed" by the Scriptures as it teaches an "accursed" gospel just as you do!

 

[Dr. Walter]

This really is true. Catholics are taught that the church is infallible in their teaching on faith and morals. It is a circular reasoning that goes something like this:

• The Catholic Church is infallible.
• How do we know that the Catholic Church is infallible?
• Because the Catholic Church teaches that it is.
• How do we know that this Catholic teaching is true?
• Because the Church is infallible...

Many times Catholics will use Matthew 16:16-23 to support their view of the papacy and the Church's authority. If you ask a priest, "How do we know that the Catholic Church interprets these verses correctly?", the answer is that the Catholic Church is infallible...and the circular reasoning continues.... I have had this conversation more times than I can count (with a priest and members of own family)! Catholics trust the Catholic Church more than they trust God's Word, and they believe only the Catholic Church's interepretation of scripture. I was once told by a Catholic priest that I shouldn't be reading the bible unless it was with a Catholic commentary!

Priscilla, "Thinkingstuff" is a defender of the Catholic gospel. He claims to be an ex-catholic but his doctrinal fruits do not match his claim. He repudiates the gospel of Jesus Christ and embraces the Roman Catholic baptismal regeneration doctrine. He is no friend to real Christians IMHO.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Ga 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Rom. 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom. 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1 Jn. 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Eph 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:


2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Isa. 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1 Jn. 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error

 

[Dr. Walter]

"Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitai spiritaulis ianua) and the door which gives access to other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers inher mission: 'Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word." - 1213 - Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church

If the above catachismic statement represents the way of salvation of a person, that person was not and is not a true child of God as long as this is representative of their profession.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Priscilla, "Thinkingstuff" is a defender of the Catholic gospel. He claims to be an ex-catholic but his doctrinal fruits do not match his claim. He repudiates the gospel of Jesus Christ and embraces the Roman Catholic baptismal regeneration doctrine. He is no friend to real Christians IMHO.

Niether you nor Pricilla have shown me how you know your interpretation is valid. And all I've shown is exactly what the Catholic church claims. See there is a thing called accuracy. I can say you teach a gospel of easy believe-ism where God expects nothing and thus nothing is asked. Since you're elect there is nothing else to prohibit your entry to heaven and you therefore can do and act in any manner you want. That is what the whole predestination and faith alone teaches. is that accurate? You I am certain will spend many hours defending how Predestination and faith alone does not equate to easy believe-ism. Is it fair for me to say? Not really. Neither is it fair to say the catholic church affirms something it does not. Nor is it fair to take a text out of context from their documents. I assure you I can take a text from Calvin's institutes out of context and make him say something he isn't really saying. I can do that with the canons of Dort as well. So I'm just leveling the playing feild so to speak and not letting you or her get away with half truths.

For instance I ask you. According to the Catholic Church can you be saved with out baptism? According to your misapplied quote with little understanding you must say no. However, this is not what the church teaches. Certainly, the Catholic Church believes that Baptism does as it symbolizes. And Grace is involved. But how is this any different than a protestant understanding of a prayer life?

 

[Dr. Walter]

Niether you nor Pricilla have shown me how you know your interpretation is valid.

Who says we have to show YOU anything? Do we stand or fall before YOU? Do we stand or fall before ROME? Hogwash!

I have showed you the scriptures how the Scriptures claim that the true child of God need not that ANY MAN teach them as they have the indwelling Holy Spirit - the Author of the Bible - to teach them.

Ga 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Rom. 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom. 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1 Jn. 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Eph 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:


2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Isa. 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1 Jn. 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error

And all I've shown is exactly what the Catholic church claims. See there is a thing called accuracy.

Yes! You have affirmed the circular reasoning that Priscilla already pointed out. You have just added another claim by this old pathetic apostate spiritual whore which agains confirms by circuluar reasoning that the church is the infallible guide to truth.

Neither is it fair to say the catholic church affirms something it does not. Nor is it fair to take a text out of context from their documents.

Complete hogwash!! I took nothing out of context. Anyone who can read English can readily see the following article is a SUMMARY statement of what Rome believes in regard to baptism:
.
"Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitai spiritaulis ianua) and the door which gives access to other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers inher mission: 'Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word." - 1213 - Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church

Nothing is taken out context. Search the catechism and you will find nothing that contradicts that "Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitai spiritaulis ianua) and the door which gives access to other sacraments."

Nothing is taken out of context. Search the catechism and you will find nothing that contradicts "Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God;"

Nothing is taken out of context. Search the catechism and you will find nothing that contradicts "Through Baptism we..... are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission"

Nothing is taken out of context. Search the catechism and you will find nothing that contradicts "'Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word'"

For instance I ask you. According to the Catholic Church can you be saved with out baptism? According to your misapplied quote with little understanding you must say no. However, this is not what the church teaches. Certainly, the Catholic Church believes that Baptism does as it symbolizes. And Grace is involved. But how is this any different than a protestant understanding of a prayer life?

You speak of EXCEPTIONS to the rule. This catachismic summary is the general rule of Catholicism and YOU KNOW IT!!!! The only exceptions Rome provides are for those who are in IGNORANCE but out of sincerity serve God according to their own light. In this exception they include sincere Moslems, Hindu's as much as Protestants.

You are completely ignorant of the gospel of Jesus Christ and your fruits reveal where your heart is. You are more concerned in defending the old harlot and her heresies than you are of encouraging ex-Catholics like Priscilla for coming out of Rome and repudiating her teachings. No! Your love is Rome and on this forum you spend most of your time attacking EX-CATHOLICS who are trying to witness to Catholics on this forum. As far as I am concerned your nothing but a covert Catholic committed to defending the old Whore.

You have left the Catholic church but you have not left Catholic doctrine. The fruit of your mouth reveals your heart. You are more concerned in defending the old Harlots perverted gospel than you are defending Jesus Christ.

 

[quantumfaith]

DW:

I would add the following:

"And this is his command: to believe in name of his Son Jesus Christ, and to LOVE one another as he commanded us. Those who keep his commands live in him and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: we know it by the Spirit he gave us." I John 3: 23-24

"Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. I John 4:7-8

"If ANYONE acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. I John 4:15

 

[Dr. Walter]

And I would add the following:

1 Cor. 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

Tit. 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Gal. 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


Jn. 16:17 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Finally, "birds of a feather flock together" and defend each other!

DW:

I would add the following:

"And this is his command: to believe in name of his Son Jesus Christ, and to LOVE one another as he commanded us. Those who keep his commands live in him and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: we know it by the Spirit he gave us." I John 3: 23-24

"Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. I John 4:7-8

"If ANYONE acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. I John 4:15

 

[Priscilla Ann]

That is not quite their argument. You are right that Catholics believe what the church teaches. The church teaches what it does because they claim the Apostles taught them it. Its called the deposit of faith.

But then I have a question for you. How do you know your interpretation is valid?

How do I know that my interpretation is valid? I don't know that my understanding is perfect; however, I have read God's Word from Genesis to Revelation a number of times. I can tell you what I do NOT find in the bible:

• The papacy/infallibillity
• Purgatory
• Indulgences
• Transubstantiation
• A sacramental system
• Confession to a priest
• Perpetual Virginity of Mary
• Immaculate Conception
• Assumption of Mary
• Prayers to the dead
• Prayers for the dead

I was a practicing Catholic for 38 years, so that experience is the basis of my knowledge of the Catholic Church.

What is the basis of your knowledge of the Catholic Church?

 

[Priscilla Ann]

"Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitai spiritaulis ianua) and the door which gives access to other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers inher mission: 'Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word." - 1213 - Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church

If the above catachismic statement represents the way of salvation of a person, that person was not and is not a true child of God as long as this is representative of their profession.

Thank you for that reference from the Catechism. I always tell people that I was "sprinkled by a priest" as an infant; but I was "baptized" at the age of 39 after I professed my faith in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Thank you for that reference from the Catechism. I always tell people that I was "sprinkled by a priest" as an infant; but I was "baptized" at the age of 39 after I professed my faith in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.

Your welcome! I simply do not believe the salvation testimony of anyone who claims to be an ex-catholic but spends the vast majority of their time and energy defending Rome and attacking those who have left Rome. Especially when they embrace and defend and teach the EXACT same accursed baptismal regeneration gospel of Rome.

I thank God for those like you who have come to see the truth of the Gospel of grace in Jesus Christ. How can anyone who has truly come to the light of the gospel of grace EVER defend Roman baptismal regeneration??? It is that doctrine that is the epitomy of the gospel from hell!

 

[Zenas]

This really is true. Catholics are taught that the church is infallible in their teaching on faith and morals. It is a circular reasoning that goes something like this:

• The Catholic Church is infallible.
• How do we know that the Catholic Church is infallible?
• Because the Catholic Church teaches that it is.
• How do we know that this Catholic teaching is true?
• Because the Church is infallible...

Many times Catholics will use Matthew 16:16-23 to support their view of the papacy and the Church's authority. If you ask a priest, "How do we know that the Catholic Church interprets these verses correctly?", the answer is that the Catholic Church is infallible...and the circular reasoning continues.... I have had this conversation more times than I can count (with a priest and members of own family)! Catholics trust the Catholic Church more than they trust God's Word, and they believe only the Catholic Church's interepretation of scripture. I was once told by a Catholic priest that I shouldn't be reading the bible unless it was with a Catholic commentary!

Thinkingstuff got it right but he may have left out a couple of steps.

1. Jesus said: “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.” This promise was given to the apostles, who were the first elders of the New Testament Church.

2. “I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.” Jude 3. The deposit of faith was “handed down”, not written down. In fact the only apostle who was ever instructed to write anything down was John in the book of Revelation.

3. The deposit of faith resides in the church of the living God, which is “the pillar and support of the truth.” 1 Timothy 3:15. The Church is God’s instrumentality for teaching and preserving His word.

4. How is the teaching process to proceed? By passing it along. “The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.” 2 Timothy 2:2. In this one verse we see the passing on of the tradition of the faith through four generations of believers, and not one word about the Bible.

5. The church founded by Christ continues today with her tradition intact over 2,000 years. Much, perhaps most, of that Tradition is found in the pages the Bible, which is without a doubt the inspired and infallible word of God. But the teaching and interpretation of the Bible is within the exclusive purview of the Church. After all, the New Testament was penned by some of the Church’s earliest saints.

There is nothing circuitous about this. All you have to do is open the Bible and read it to know that the Church is and always has been the repository of the “deposit of faith.”

 

[Priscilla Ann]

Thinkingstuff got it right but he may have left out a couple of steps.

1. Jesus said: “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.” This promise was given to the apostles, who were the first elders of the New Testament Church.

2. “I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.” Jude 3. The deposit of faith was “handed down”, not written down. In fact the only apostle who was ever instructed to write anything down was John in the book of Revelation.

3. The deposit of faith resides in the church of the living God, which is “the pillar and support of the truth.” 1 Timothy 3:15. The Church is God’s instrumentality for teaching and preserving His word.

4. How is the teaching process to proceed? By passing it along. “The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.” 2 Timothy 2:2. In this one verse we see the passing on of the tradition of the faith through four generations of believers, and not one word about the Bible.

5. The church founded by Christ continues today with her tradition intact over 2,000 years. Much, perhaps most, of that Tradition is found in the pages the Bible, which is without a doubt the inspired and infallible word of God. But the teaching and interpretation of the Bible is within the exclusive purview of the Church. After all, the New Testament was penned by some of the Church’s earliest saints.

There is nothing circuitous about this. All you have to do is open the Bible and read it to know that the Church is and always has been the repository of the “deposit of faith.”

When I read the New Testament, I do not see Catholicism. For example, how can one read and believe the Book of Romans and remain a Catholic?

Romans 10:9-11 says this:

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

I will never forget the first time I read those precious words! They changed my life forever and gave me an insatiable hunger for the Word of God.

In short, the bible focuses on salvation through Jesus Christ. In contrast, the Catholic Church focuses on salvation through the Catholic Church. Who are you trusting for your salvation: Jesus Christ or the Catholic Church? You cannot have it both ways. Chose Christ!

 

[Dr. Walter]

Thinkingstuff got it right but he may have left out a couple of steps.

1. Jesus said: “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.” This promise was given to the apostles, who were the first elders of the New Testament Church.

The following texts do not apply to the Apostles and it is the apostles who are asserting that individual believers need only the Holy Spirit as their teacher to understand the Holy Spirit instruction manual - the scriptures.

Ga 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Rom. 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom. 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1 Jn. 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Eph 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:


2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Isa. 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1 Jn. 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error

 

[Dr. Walter]

2. “I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.” Jude 3. The deposit of faith was “handed down”, not written down. In fact the only apostle who was ever instructed to write anything down was John in the book of Revelation.

This step is also Biblically incorrect. At the beginning it was handed down orally, but then it was written down as the apostles fulfilled the prophetic scriptures in Isaiah 8:16-18 in completing the Biblical canon - binding it up and sealing it. The very verse you quoted in your first step was simply reaffirming this Isaiah 8:16-18 prophecy. The apostles knew they were fulfiling this prophecy as they acknowleged and their readers acknowledged what they were writing was scriptures (2 Pet. 3:15-17; 2 Thes. 2:15).

The last living apostle actually takes the very term "the testimony" as used by Isaiah 8:16 and applies to the last written book by the last living apostle (Rev. 1:3) and puts a seal at the end as also predicted by Isaiah (Rev. 22:17-18).

The Scriptures do claim to be final authority - Isa. 8:20 - as Isaiah 8:20 is the conclusive fulfillment of the prediction in Isa. 8:16-18.

 

[Dr. Walter]

3. The deposit of faith resides in the church of the living God, which is “the pillar and support of the truth.” 1 Timothy 3:15. The Church is God’s instrumentality for teaching and preserving His word.

This is true, but the church in question is the one that has no central headquarters, no pope, no college of cardinals, not in Rome, no preists, no nuns and no sacraments but is like unto those we find in the New Testament scriptures - local visible assemblies that reproduce after their own kind through obedience to the great commission and have done so in every generation since the first. They are among those whom Rome branded as "heretics" - and which both Rome and Reformed Rome branded as "anabaptists."

The office of apostle was foundational not continuative. The qualifications are restructive to the first century (Acts 1:22-23; I Cor. 15:8).

 

[Dr. Walter]

4. How is the teaching process to proceed? By passing it along. “The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.” 2 Timothy 2:2. In this one verse we see the passing on of the tradition of the faith through four generations of believers, and not one word about the Bible.

No! This is how ordained men are to teach young men called to the ministry. The church is the final authority (Mt. 18:17-18) not the eldership and it is the church that is the pillar and ground of the truth, not the eldership. In Revelation 2-3 it is the churches that are held responsible for changes that include the eldership or teachers. The eldership is answerable to the churches not the churches to the eldership (acts 11:1-3; 14:26-27; 15:1-3; 18:22). The eldership is responsible to preach the word (2 Tim. 4:1-3) while the church is responsible to obey the word.