Texas Part 2

[Zaac]

What is really sad is that Zaac actually seems to believe the US Army would fire on law abiding citizens and the US Navy would fire on unarmed cargo ships sailing under the flags of friendly nations.

I can't imagine that depth of corruption in our men and women serving in the military.

Foolishness. You try to secede, you're an enemy of the country. So save that law abiding citizen crap. Law abiding citizens don't try to steal part of the United States.

 

[Use of Time]

It belongs to those who for it and the right to keep it.

Just because you are willing to give up your freedoms doesn't mean everyone is.

The U.S. government does not own all the land in Texas. Period.

To say it does is without constitutional foundation and totally ludicrous.

I'll just have to make do living in Soviet Virginia.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Foolishness. You try to secede, you're an enemy of the country.

Why?

Why should my loyalty to "the country" be greater than my loyalty to my state?

So save that law abiding citizen crap. Law abiding citizens don't try to steal part of the United States.

You must be mighty young. Back when they taught history in schools, you would have learned that the states don't belong to the United States, but are sovereign entities unto themselves.

Most young people today believe that the states are merely administrative districts of the federal government, which is not true.

The very reason we're called the United States is that the states united in a co-operative effort, not because we took North America and divided it up into fifty administrative districts of the federal government.

If the federal government has broken its covenant with a state and no longer recognizes or respects a state's sovereignty, why shouldn't the state leave? Would you advise a woman to stay in an abusive relationship? If not, then why insist that a state stays in an abusive relationship?

 

[Use of Time]

When I deployed there were 50 stars on the flag on my shoulder. United we stand, divided we fall. Any serious talk of secession is immature and treasonous anti American garbage that I'll get tired of listening to real fast.

 

[Doubting Thomas]

You must be mighty young. Back when they taught history in schools, you would have learned that the states don't belong to the United States, but are sovereign entities unto themselves.

Most young people today believe that the states are merely administrative districts of the federal government, which is not true.

The very reason we're called the United States is that the states united in a co-operative effort, not because we took North America and divided it up into fifty administrative districts of the federal government.

If the federal government has broken its covenant with a state and no longer recognizes or respects a state's sovereignty, why shouldn't the state leave? Would you advise a woman to stay in an abusive relationship? If not, then why insist that a state stays in an abusive relationship?

Very good post. :thumbs:

In a sense, Secession is American as apple-pie. After all, the Founding Fathers led the colonies to secede from the British Empire. I'm sure if Zaac (and some other posters here apparently) were alive then, they'd probably call the founding fathers and independent-minded colonists "traitors" for wanting to secede from Great Brittain.

 

[Use of Time]

Very good post. :thumbs:

In a sense, Secession is American as apple-pie. After all, the Founding Fathers led the colonies to secede from the British Empire. I'm sure if Zaac (and some other posters here apparently) were alive then, they'd probably call the founding fathers and independent-minded colonists "traitors" for wanting to secede from Great Brittain.

The United States in 2015 is not the Great Britain of the 1770's.

 

[Doubting Thomas]

The United States in 2015 is not the Great Britain of the 1770's.

Indeed it's not. :applause:

 

[Zaac]

When I deployed there were 50 stars on the flag on my shoulder. United we stand, divided we fall. Any serious talk of secession is immature and treasonous anti American garbage that I'll get tired of listening to real fast.

Thank you. You tell me that you're against the US and want to secede, then we're gonna kick ya on out with the same thing you came into the world with. The land is part of the US. If they want to secede, they're gonna have to find some other piece of terra firma to settle.

 

[TCassidy]

Law abiding citizens don't try to steal part of the United States.

Are you really so stupid that you think the state of Texas does not belong to Texans?

My home belongs to me. You want to try to take it? Good luck with that. Remember the adage, "Don't mess with Texas!"

Even under eminent domain laws the presupposition exists that property belongs to the owner. It can be taken for the greater good of all the people, but that does not negate the presupposition that property belongs to the owner and before being taken, even for the greater good of the people, fair compensation, at market value, must be given to the owner.

 

[TCassidy]

Thank you. You tell me that you're against the US and want to secede, then we're gonna kick ya on out with the same thing you came into the world with. The land is part of the US. If they want to secede, they're gonna have to find some other piece of terra firma to settle.

How stupid do you have to be to think 1.8% of the land in Texas constitutes the entire state?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

And in many cases WORSE. I think if the founders had envisioned the bureaucratic monstrosity into which the federal govt has mutated, they may have put more safe guards on states' rights in the constitution (and heck, they may have just stuck with the Articles of Confederation!).

We have the NSA collecting data on American citizens, and we have seen the recent establishment of other govt agencies and executive orders which jeopardize our liberties. Yet, the US GOVT doesn't do a darn thing to secure our southern border.

We've had the Federal Supreme Court invent the "right" to murder the unborn, and now they are poised to invent the "right" of 'g@y marriage'. If g@y marriage becomes the law of the land, then this can have dire implications for the religious freedom of Americans to express/practice belief in traditional marriage.

Too many in both political parties in cahoots with big corporations are too eager to sell out the American worker for cheap foreign labor. With the concentration of wealth, there has been a diminishing of the influence of the people on the political process, so it is appropriate to ask how much representation do we really have in our Federal government.

So, yeah, I can see plenty of grievances which would lead folks to want to ultimately declare their indepedence from the Federal Regime.

Yep. Don't forget NDAA, secret prisons, warrantless searches, general warrants, and civil forfeiture.

When I deployed there were 50 stars on the flag on my shoulder. United we stand, divided we fall. Any serious talk of secession is immature and treasonous anti American garbage that I'll get tired of listening to real fast.

Why is it treasonous? If you're getting tired of it, then why are you still posting here?

The United States in 2015 is not the Great Britain of the 1770's.

Are you sure about that? Have you ever read the grievances listed in the Declaration of Independence? The federal government is now doing many of the same things.

Thank you. You tell me that you're against the US and want to secede, then we're gonna kick ya on out with the same thing you came into the world with. The land is part of the US. If they want to secede, they're gonna have to find some other piece of terra firma to settle.

Where does the Constitution say that states belong to other states? Or to the federal government?

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Are you sure about that? Have you ever read the grievances listed in the Declaration of Independence? The federal government is now doing many of the same things.

And in many cases WORSE. I think if the founders had envisioned the bureaucratic monstrosity into which the federal govt has mutated, they may have put more safe guards on states' rights in the constitution (and heck, they may have just stuck with the Articles of Confederation!).

We have the NSA collecting data on American citizens, and we have seen the recent establishment of other govt agencies and executive orders which jeopardize our liberties. Yet, the US GOVT doesn't do a darn thing to secure our southern border.

We've had the Federal Supreme Court invent the "right" to murder the unborn, and now they are poised to invent the "right" of 'g@y marriage'. If g@y marriage becomes the law of the land, then this can have dire implications for the religious freedom of Americans to express/practice belief in traditional marriage.

Too many in both political parties in cahoots with big corporations are too eager to sell out the American worker for cheap foreign labor. With the concentration of wealth, there has been a diminishing of the influence of the people on the political process, so it is appropriate to ask how much representation do we really have in our Federal government.

So, yeah, I can see plenty of grievances which would lead folks to want to ultimately declare their indepedence from the Federal Regime.

 

[Zaac]

Why?

Why should my loyalty to "the country" be greater than my loyalty to my state?

I didn't say it should be. But your state is here because the country was established. The country wasn't established because your state is here.

You pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States, not your individual state.

The Constitution is for the United States, not your individual state.

You must be mighty young. Back when they taught history in schools, you would have learned that the states don't belong to the United States, but are sovereign entities unto themselves.

I understand state sovereignty. I also understand the requirements under which a state was accepted into the Union.

Most young people today believe that the states are merely administrative districts of the federal government, which is not true.

I do not.

The very reason we're called the United States is that the states united in a co-operative effort, not because we took North America and divided it up into fifty administrative districts of the federal government.

That's right a CO-OPERATIVE effort. Meaning your state doesn't get to say screw all the other states. Your state doesn't get to make federal law.

If the federal government has broken its covenant with a state and no longer recognizes or respects a state's sovereignty, why shouldn't the state leave?

A state's sovereignty to do what? A state's sovereignty is limited and hemmed in by federal law. And states should have understood that when they joined the Union.

State sovereignty isn't mentioned in the Constitution. And the Constitution does not give a state the right to unilaterally decide to secede. The only way for Texas or any other state to "legally" secede would be by the approval of the other states or a Texas revolution. Whereby the ones attempting to secede set themselves up as an enemy of the US and we will respond accordingly to make sure we keep what is ours.

We are one nation, indivisible. Limited state sovereignty does NOT give a state the power to secede.

Would you advise a woman to stay in an abusive relationship? If not, then why insist that a state stays in an abusive relationship?

If she is married, yep. That doesn't mean she has to stay in the same house as the abuser. But God doesn't list abuse as a reason for divorce.

Likewise, if Texans want out of an abusive relationship, then GIT! There are a lot of other countries in the world.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Texas started off as a sovereign state, then became Mexican. You had to adopt Catholicism to own land in Texas. Texas did not join the union untill 1845. If Mexico had not had Santa Anna's revolution and not lost their democracy Texas would be a part of Mexico.

 

[Zaac]

Are you really so stupid that you think the state of Texas does not belong to Texans?

Are you really so stupid as to think that you REALLY own Texas? Don't pay your property taxes and see if Texans get your property or will the government?

My home belongs to me. You want to try to take it? Good luck with that. Remember the adage, "Don't mess with Texas!"

That's real estate. I'm talking about land.

Even under eminent domain laws the presupposition exists that property belongs to the owner. It can be taken for the greater good of all the people, but that does not negate the presupposition that property belongs to the owner and before being taken, even for the greater good of the people, fair compensation, at market value, must be given to the owner.

That real estate might belong to you, but the land is essentially being leased. :laugh:

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I didn't say it should be. But your state is here because the country was established. The country wasn't established because your state is here.

Actually, the country was established because thirteen states were here.

While it's true that my state was not admitted as a state until 1819, there were still thirteen states that were already in existence at the time the republic was founded. What about them?

You pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States, not your individual state.

And...?

I understand state sovereignty.

But you keep implying that states have no power, that states should submit to the federal government.

That's right a CO-OPERATIVE effort. Meaning your state doesn't get to say screw all the other states. Your state doesn't get to make federal law.

Who said anything about screwing other states? What about when the federal government screws states? Why should the federal government be allowed to screw states?

A state's sovereignty to do what?

To make its own laws, to be free of federal interference.

A state's sovereignty is limited and hemmed in by federal law.

Such as...?

And states should have understood that when they joined the Union.

So, states should have employed psychics to tell them what the federal government would become 200 years later?

State sovereignty isn't mentioned in the Constitution.

First of all, not true. See the 10th Amendment.

Second, why does it have to be, when it's already assumed?

Third, you realize the Constitution operates on a principle called enumeration, right?

And the Constitution does not give a state the right to unilaterally decide to secede.

9th Amendment.

The only way for Texas or any other state to "legally" secede would be by the approval of the other states or a Texas revolution. Whereby the ones attempting to secede set themselves up as an enemy of the US and we will respond accordingly to make sure we keep what is ours.

Who is "we"? Why do you believe Texas is yours? Are you from Texas? Do you live in Texas? Do you pay taxes or vote there?

If she is married, yep.

Then you should be ashamed of yourself.

Likewise, if Texans want out of an abusive relationship, then GIT! There are a lot of other countries in the world.

What do other countries have to do with it?

 

[Zaac]

How stupid do you have to be to think 1.8% of the land in Texas constitutes the entire state?

About as stupid as someone who believes that because their house sits on it, that they own the property.

 

[Zaac]

Actually, the country was established because thirteen states were here.

While it's true that my state was not admitted as a state until 1819, there were still thirteen states that were already in existence at the time the republic was founded. What about them? [/quote]

They joined a Union and their state rights were subjugated to those of the nation.

And...?

And what?

But you keep implying that states have no power, that states should submit to the federal government.

I implied no such thing. The Constitution is very clear about states rights.

And state law IS to submit to federal law where federal law has spoken.

Who said anything about screwing other states?

Yall would be seceding and and trying to take resources away from the United States. That screws the other 49 states.

What about when the federal government screws states?

Then go through the process of abolishing the government. That you CAN do. But no state has the Constitutional right to secede without the consent of the other 49 states.

Why should the federal government be allowed to screw states?

For the same reason that the GOP can screw people. For the same reason that the Dems can screw people.

If you don't like being screwed, go through the LEGAL process to change the government instead of ILLEGALLY trying to take what does not belong to you.

To make its own laws, to be free of federal interference.

States ARE free to make their own laws. But federal law trumps state law unless the federal law exempts the state.

SO called political conservatives are always talking about the "rule of law" until the rule of law doesn't get them what they want.

Then they want to break the law and establish their own rules instead of going through the legislative process of changing the law.

Such as...?

Such as federal Civil Rights laws. For instance, a state cannot decide that it will allow companies to discriminate based on gender if the federal law says no.

So, states should have employed psychics to tell them what the federal government would become 200 years later?

So because the government has become something that certain people didn't anticipate, states should now illegally be able to secede? Please.

If a state doesn't like the federal government as-is, then do the work to change it. You don't get to attempt to steal part of the country just because you're upset with the government. Should cities and municipalities be able to secede from states and form their own states?

First of all, not true. See the 10th Amendment.

I looked at the 10th Amendment before I typed that. It doesn't mention the word sovereignty.

Second, why does it have to be, when it's already assumed?

I'm a true conservative. Assuming opens the door for too many things.

Third, you realize the Constitution operates on a principle called enumeration, right?

Where in those enumerated rights does it say that a state may secede?

9th Amendment.

Are they doing the Constitution like the Bible now and thee are many different versions? The 9th amendment doesn't say anything about secession.

Who is "we"?

The rest of us in the other 49 states.

Why do you believe Texas is yours? Are you from Texas? Do you live in Texas? Do you pay taxes or vote there?

I didn't say Texas was mine. Texas belongs to the United States and is indivisible from the other 49 states. The only way Texas is allowed to secede is if the other 49 are in agreement and the Union is dissolved.

S o I don't have to live there or pay taxes there to understand that the land is part of the country, The United States.

Then you should be ashamed of yourself.

Why? As I've said before, I'm a whole lot more Biblically conservative than most of ya. :laugh: If she is married to him, abuse isn't a Biblical reason to get out of the relationship. So why are you ashamed that I wouldn't advise her to do something that God's word doesn't tell her to do?

What do other countries have to do with it?

Yall gonna have to settle somewhere after we put yall out the United States for your treasonous actions.

 

[OldRegular]

Think we can start a conversation about Texas and other states that leaves out the derogatory names concerning groups of people. The fact is Texas is one of only a few states if not the only state that could function as an independent nation on its own. For one, they have their own power grid. They have an ample supply of energy, wealth, an manpower that it takes to make a nation function. There may be other states, but none come to mind.

If the country continues on the path to Socialism I believe we will see a large number of states secede, probably with Texas leading the way. For about 100 years following the War of Northern Aggression, the South was under the heal of the north. That has all changed starting with President Eisenhower.

As I have noted before those states most likely to follow Texas would be those with direct access to the ocean via navigable rivers and that is a lot of states, most are led by Republicans!

 

[Bro. Curtis]

America's three big rivers all get in water from Montana. And it's still a very independent state.