That He May Be Glorified

[KenH]

And since he determines that some will not repent and believe why does he judge them as they are doing just what he determined that they would do.

Because, O creature, God said so. God is the Creator, Silverhair, you are the creature, and what He says goes, whether you understand it or not, whether you like it or not.

 

[KenH]

Therefore God wanted/was determined, for man to die?

What was God bringing about the destruction, thereof?

Romans 11:34-36 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

 

[Silverhair]

@KenH

I am curious why you say "totally absolutely sovereign" does that make God more sovereign or do you think someone saying God is sovereign means He is not a sovereign as your "totally absolutely sovereign" makes Him?

 

[percho]

Romans 11:34-36 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Amen, everything took place in the garden just as God had planned before the foundation of the world.
'Known from the ages to God are all His works; Acts 15:18

 

[KenH]

@KenH

I am curious why you say "totally absolutely sovereign" does that make God more sovereign or do you think someone saying God is sovereign means He is not a sovereign as your "totally absolutely sovereign" makes Him?

I do so because of the seemingly rampant Deism that many folks subscribe to, whose god of their imagination is sometimes sovereign here or there or maybe not even at all - such as folks whose god of their imagination wound up the world like a spinning top at the beginning and then left it and is waiting out there somewhere until it winds itself down; or folks whose god of their imagination was sovereign sometimes here or there in times past until the Bible was completed during the 1st century A.D., but after that just left things to run on their own until some point in time in the future; or folks who think that the god of their imagination gave man everything he needed to figure out how to save himself and now if he would just have enough smarts to exercise his supposed "free will" in the right way, he can effect his own salvation.

The God of the Bible is not a sometimes sovereign God. The God of the Bible is an always totally absolutely sovereign God. And I am thankful, so very thankful, that He is always totally absolutely sovereign.

 

[Silverhair]

I do so because of the seemingly rampant Deism that many folks subscribe to, whose god of their imagination is sometimes sovereign here or there or maybe not even at all - such as folks whose god of their imagination wound up the world like a spinning top at the beginning and then left it and is waiting out there somewhere until it winds itself down; or folks whose god of their imagination was sovereign sometimes here or there in times past until the Bible was completed during the 1st century A.D., but after that just left things to run on their own until some point in time in the future; or folks who think that the god of their imagination gave man everything he needed to figure out how to save himself and now if he would just have enough smarts to exercise his supposed "free will" in the right way, he can effect his own salvation.

The God of the Bible is not a sometimes sovereign God. The God of the Bible is an always totally absolutely sovereign God. And I am thankful, so very thankful, that He is always totally absolutely sovereign.

You were doing ok until your flubbed it and denied free will. God is sovereign and in His sovereignty He gave man the ability to make real choices as we see in everyday life.

And yet you continue to deny man the ability to make the most important choice they can ever make. Man does not save himself but he does make the choice of whether he will trust in God for his salvation.

For someone that claims to trust the word of God you do deny large amounts of it in favor of the teachings of man.

 

[KenH]

Man does not save himself but he does make the choice of whether he will trust in God for his salvation.

You provided an excellent example of how to say that one thinks that man can save himself while allegedly denying that he thinks that man can save himself.

 

[Ben1445]

Since God is totally absolutely sovereign, the answer is yes.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.

"They are seriously spoken, since this was after man was brought to a sense of the evil he committed, and to repentance for it, and had had the promised seed revealed to him as a Saviour, and, as an emblem of justification and salvation by him, was clothed with garments provided by God himself: wherefore the words are to be considered either as a declaration of his present state and condition, in and by Christ, by whose righteousness he was made righteous, even as he is righteous, though he had lost his own; to whose image he was conformed, now bearing the image of the heavenly One, though he was deprived of that in which he was created, having sinned, and come short of the glory of God; and was now restored to friendship and amity with God, favoured with his gracious presence, and having faith and hope of being with him for evermore; the eyes of his understanding were enlightened by the Spirit and grace of God, to know the good things which God had provided for him in Christ, and in the covenant of grace, a better covenant than that under which he was made, and which he had broke; and to know the evil nature of sin, its just demerit, and the atonement of it, by the death and sacrifice of the promised seed."

- excerpt from John Gill's Bible commentary on Genesis 3:22

Considering that we are told that we should be simple concerning evil (Romans 16:19) I think your understanding of God is flawed.

 

[KenH]

Considering that we are told that we should be simple concerning evil (Romans 16:19) I think your understanding of God is flawed.

Could you expound a bit on your statement? I don't catch your drift.

 

[Ben1445]

Could you expound a bit on your statement? I don't catch your drift.

As I followed it.

Did God want Adam to know good and evil?

From what I’ve been taught from the Bible, no.

Since God is totally absolutely sovereign, the answer is yes.

Considering that we are told that we should be simple concerning evil (Romans 16:19) I think your understanding of God is flawed.

 

[Silverhair]

You provided an excellent example of how to say that one thinks that man can save himself while allegedly denying that he thinks that man can save himself.

Ken you continue to provide excellent examples of some one that claims to trust the word of God but then denies the word of God.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Act 16:30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

How you can continue to miss these clear truths is shocking to say the least.

Perhaps you will believe Jesus Himself

Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Man does not save himself but God only saves those that believe.

You can trust the word of God or you can trust the word of man. Choose wisely.

 

[David Lamb]

We are raised up with Christ after we have believed in Him not before. So if we are dead like a corpse, as calvinists claim, then we could not sin or trust in Christ. So calvinists did create a new doctrine. You must be saved before you can believe.

Calvinists have it backwards.

As we see in Eoh 1:13, which comes before Eph 2, that the dead in sin can hear the gospel message and believe the message and then God saves them. We see this again later in Eph 2:8-9. We are told we are saved by the grace of God through faith not by works we might do. And this salvation is a gift from God for those that do believe.

As I read Ephesians 2, I find that God raising the sinner up, making the sinner alive, comes in verses 1, 5 & 6. Faith (belief) is not mentioned until verse 8. Souls dead in trespasses and sins cannot believe and repent. I certainly agree that salvation is a free gift from God.

 

[Charlie24]

You provided an excellent example of how to say that one thinks that man can save himself while allegedly denying that he thinks that man can save himself.

This is so messed up, Ken.

When God presented the Gospel to me through another man I believed and repented of my sins.

I was granted God's righteousness through my faith, I had nothing to do with my salvation, it was a free gift.

You are alleging that I saved myself by obeying God's command to repent and believe.

That's messed up, Ken!

 

[Charlie24]

This is so messed up, Ken.

When God presented the Gospel to me through another man I believed and repented of my sins.

I was granted God's righteousness through my faith, I had nothing to do with my salvation, it was a free gift.

You are alleging that I saved myself by obeying God's command to repent and believe.

That's messed up, Ken!

That's some of that twisted Reformed Theology that God will judge!

 

[Silverhair]

As I read Ephesians 2, I find that God raising the sinner up, making the sinner alive, comes in verses 1, 5 & 6. Faith (belief) is not mentioned until verse 8. Souls dead in trespasses and sins cannot believe and repent. I certainly agree that salvation is a free gift from God.

You should remember that there were no chapters and verses in Paul's letter. So you have to read it as a letter. Look back just a bit to Eph 1:13 and you will see the order of salvation stated clearly.

Eph 1:13
In Him,
you also,
after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—
having also believed,
you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

So we see that Paul has already told them that faith was required before they were saved.

He then goes on to remind them of what their lives had been like, that they had been dead in trespasses and sin indulging in the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath. But God had been gracious and saved them not because of their good deeds/works but rather by the grace of God because they had believed. vs 8

I have to ask where do you get this idea that it is impossible for the lost hear and respond to the gospel message? You do not find that in scripture.