The “Crossless” Gospel at the Crossroads

I reject irresistable grace and I reject the notion that God never reaches out to some men and leaves them in their sin. So I would not fall into the reformed category. And if I did I would never fall into the ungodly category of a calvinist.

However I am with Mac Arthur on Lordship salvation. If you are not willing to make Him Lord then you have not recieved Him.

 

Okay, brother. For the record, I don't think you have misinterpreted John MacArthur. I believe the man was misinterpreted by some folk back years ago on the blood of Christ, but he is pretty clear on the LS issue, even though The Gospel According to Jesus was to me a mishmash and a poor job on the subject.

I never bought the LS position when I first heard it at BJU in 1972 from Arend Ten Pas (you no doubt know of him, since JM quotes from him). JM certainly didn't convince me.

As I should, too. Such a blessing! I think I read it five times when I was young.

God bless.

 

Lou. Has JM outright refused to talk with you? Or has he refused to debate LS salvation with you, in a public forum? Could it be that he doesn't want to take the time to defend himself against your misrepresentations? We have quoted JM's belief in monergism. How do you reconcile his monergistic belief with your assertations that he frontloads requirements for regeneration?

 

John is not that hard to contact. Something is not right here. What is the whole story?

 

My mistake........ sorry.

 

Calvinists are ungodly?

 

Could it be John is hard to contact when someon wants to discuss the errors of his theology? I agree with you that something is not right. If he has been "misrepresented", you would think that he would want to make his position crystal clear on the matter, and not send his assistant to answer questions.

Maybe he's afraid his sales will go down in his books and Bibles as a result (sarcasm)

 

Is John monergistic? We both know the answer to that.
How can he be so absolutely monergistic and then state something which is synergistic? Think about it. He is not an idiot.
Where you guys (synergists) fail, other than not being able to account for all those who never hear the gospel, is to realize that there is no chronology to the process of regeneration/faith/salvation. Time is not involved in this. Faith is given by God along with the new nature, a change from enmity with God to loving God, following through to salvation.
This is a monergistic act of God. After regeneration, the actions of men will be evident in Lordship, if they are in fact regenerate. That is all JM is stating.

 

First, I'm not a synergist. This has been explained ad nauseum. Calvinists aren't the only monergists on the planet. JM can very well be a monergist and still hold to LS, as LS is nothing more than hyper calvinism.

 

I'm sorry web, I seriously thought you were a synergist. If it has been explained "ad nauseum" I have honestly missed it. I took a break from the BB for a while... maybe it was during that time. I'm seriously thinking of taking another.

 

==That is one of those "for the books" type of remarks. Theologically and historically incorrect. If it were not so tragically wrong it would actually be funny.

 

==Since we are not talking about specific statements/comments from Dr. MacArthur I can't directly answer your question. However I would point out that MacArthur has sought to clearify some of the statements he made in the first edition of "The Gospel According To Jesus". The sequal to that book, "The Gospel According To The Apostles", is not as heavy handed as the first book was. He has sought to clearify, and correct, statements that are found in "Hard To Believe". I think if one listens to MacArthur carefully, one gets the picture. MacArthur does not believe that a person must do anything to be saved. He believes, as I do, that faith, repentance, grace, salvation, the whole package is a gift from God. Man can take no credit for any of it. If a person has that gift, they will not live in rebellion against Christ.

 

==Allow me to clearify my point. I was not saying that all non-Calvinists reject Lordship Salvation, not at all. I think we can all agree that John Wesley certainly believed in Lordship Salvation and he was not a Calvinist. The point I was attempting to make was that many people who reject Lordship also reject Calvinism, and often for the same reasons.

 

Why don't you enlighten me web? If this has been explained "ad nauseum" then that should be easy for you to do. I appreciate it in advance.

Synergism

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Synergism, in general, may be defined as two or more agents working together to produce a result not obtainable by any of the agents independently. The word synergy or synergism comes from two Greek words, erg meaning to work and syn meaning together, hence synergism is a "working together."
Regarding the doctrine of salvation, this is essentially the view that God and humanity work together, each contributing their part to accomplish salvation in and for the individual. This is the view of salvation found in Arminianism and its theological predecessor Semi-Pelagianism. John Hendryx has stated it this way. Synergism is "...the doctrine that there are two efficient agents in regeneration, namely the human will and the divine Spirit, which, in the strict sense of the term, cooperate. This theory accordingly holds that the soul has not lost in the fall all inclination toward holiness, nor all power to seek for it under the influence of ordinary motives." [1]
In other words, God has done His part, and humanity must do theirs. This is opposed to the monergistic view held by Reformed and Calvinistic groups where salvation is seen as the work of God alone.

 

That definition sounds just like what I believed before I "switched sides". :laugh:

 

I reject irresistable grace and this idea that man and God work together as well. The credit for salvation begins and ends with He who has the power to give it. (John 1:12,13)

 

You heard about the arminian puppies for sale? A guy had a sign out for arminian puppies for sale. The puppies were newborn, and not weaned yet. A man stopped to look, and bought an arminian puppy since he himself was arminian. After the puppies were weaned, the man stopped to pick up his puppy, but noticed that the sign now read calvinist puppies. The man was upset and stated that he thought he had bought an arminian puppy. The other man told him that the puppies were arminian but since their eyes were now open, they became calvinist.