If you simply go by the scriptures (from the ole King James) and do not add or diminish from them, the scriptures point out that we must be attempting to keep the 10 commandments (including Gods sabbath day) in order to be saved to the kingdom. Does anyone see things differently?
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The 10 commandments and being saved
- Thread starter Chowmah
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Yes.
Of course, I may be misunderstanding you, because it reads like you said "we have to follow the 10 commandments to remain saved."
Hi Don
I didnt say remain saved but..
MARK 1 [14] Now after that John was put in prison, JESUS CAME INTO GALILEE, PREACHING THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD, [15] And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: REPENT YE, AND BELIEVE the gospel., [15] And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
We are 1st told to repent and believe the gospel. You repent of sin. Sin is the transgression of the law according to the new covenant scriptures
I didnt say remain saved but..
MARK 1 [14] Now after that John was put in prison, JESUS CAME INTO GALILEE, PREACHING THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD, [15] And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: REPENT YE, AND BELIEVE the gospel., [15] And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
We are 1st told to repent and believe the gospel. You repent of sin. Sin is the transgression of the law according to the new covenant scriptures
Galatians 3
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made...if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law...Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Do you believe that you are saved by following the law, or by following Christ?
We should also recognize the differences in "commands" and "commandment." The language of the KJV doesn't help us with that distinction, but in essence it means that my people "shall" or "will" do these things.
It's not like when your mom says "go mow the lawn."
It's about Christ living through us, breathing his breath, living his life. It's not about effort.
It's not like when your mom says "go mow the lawn."
It's about Christ living through us, breathing his breath, living his life. It's not about effort.
What do you mean by commands and commandments. Could you be more specific?
A command is a direction, such as when a parents tells a child to do something. A commandment is more formal decree. So "thou shalt" means "those who love me will."
GE:
Chowman, the New Testament believer no longer sees ANYTHING 'in the light of the Law' as the Ten Commandments; not even the 'transgression of the Law' as the transgression of the Ten Commandments. Jesus Christ IN EVERY RESPECT for the New Testament believer IS THE LAW OF GOD. So that if a reborn sinner transgress – and transgress he keeps on doing for as long as he lives --, he transgressed against Jesus Christ. Therefore even the Christian “man is under the Law for as long as he lives”. By reason of two things, first, that Christ has become The Law over him; and two, that the believer remains the mortal corruptible sinner he deserves to be for as long as he lives.
But this is an Old Testament thing of long ago already! David confessed: "Against Thee alone I transgressed". Not even David thought he broke the Ten Commandments; he prayed God because he knew he broke God's heart!
Paul explains it to me best. He said the marvelous glory of the Law is like NO glory at all against the Glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Who needs the light of a candle in full daylight sun?
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GE:
Billwald, the day you will open your eyes to the contradiction in both terms and thought in this your own statement, that day maybe, God willing, you will see the light and joy and liberty of that one Commandment you so are afraid of.
GE:
Wherefore then serveth Christ? He was made a Man because of transgressions, the Seed that should come; the Promise that was made. If Christ had given his life, verily righteousness has been by Christ. Wherefore Christ now is become our schoolmaster to bring us unto the Father through Himself, that we might be justified by faith in Him. Now after this faith is come, we are no longer under the schoolmaster of the Law. The Freedom of Christ is our mandate.
You are not saved by following Christ; you follow Christ because you are saved by Christ.
And while everybody -- very clearly -- here has an obsession about the Fourth Commandment, you will follow Him, “Sabbaths’ into the Church” …. And la la la never on a Sunday.
GE:
>Billwald, the day you will open your eyes to the contradiction in both terms and thought in this your own statement, that day maybe, God willing, you will see the light and joy and liberty of that one Commandment you so are afraid of
The devil is in the details. If I bind myself to one Mosaic commandment then I am bound by all 613 statements. The NT teaches that I can avoid avoiding clams, oysters, shrimp and lobsters by Jesus' sacrifice in my behalf. Then there is bacon and eggs . . . yum. Thanks be to God.
Then there is the matter of shift work. I worked 6 days on and 2 off for 30 years. Was that sinful?
>Billwald, the day you will open your eyes to the contradiction in both terms and thought in this your own statement, that day maybe, God willing, you will see the light and joy and liberty of that one Commandment you so are afraid of
The devil is in the details. If I bind myself to one Mosaic commandment then I am bound by all 613 statements. The NT teaches that I can avoid avoiding clams, oysters, shrimp and lobsters by Jesus' sacrifice in my behalf. Then there is bacon and eggs . . . yum. Thanks be to God.
Then there is the matter of shift work. I worked 6 days on and 2 off for 30 years. Was that sinful?
Why is there no discussion amoung the Jews about the changing of the day of rest from the sabbath to the 1st day of the week. Theres no discussion of it at all. The whole book of Galatians is about circumcsion. There plenty other discussions concerning circumcsion. Yet not a word about changing one of Gods 10 commandments. Whys that?
GE:
Chowman, I've just posted this under 'Sola Scriptura',
Originally Posted by Andre
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Look at Galatians if you do not think that Jew - Gentile division among believers was not a problem.
GE:
Here again, you should not overemphasize ethnicity, Andre. What DHK asserts applies in the case of Galatians more than in Romans. Galatians is an epistle addressed to ‘GENTILE Christian’ converts and with them in mind specifically more than any of Paul’s Epistles with the exception of Colossians which NOWHERE AND NOHOW supposes a Jewish readership.
Look at Galatians if you want an illustration of 'GENTILE' Christians who "REVERTED to (their) former dismal no-gods" of "worshipping superstitiously ('paratehreoh') days, months, seasons and years"- the 'stoicheia' TIME-NO-GODS of Greek philosophy (which came in fours, like earth, water, fire and wind were the no-god-stoicheia of matter). Galatians does not suggest a “Jew - Gentile or rather CHRISTIAN division among believers”; it directly addresses a Gentile apostasy to PAGAN idolatry, sealed with arrogance by trying to bend the arm of God through heathen circumcision. Both abominations this day are going on in both heathen and Christian nations and countries.
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GE:
Chowman, it is a common mistake among Christians to take for granted there is or was no discussion amoung the Jews about the changing of the day of rest, the Sabbath Day. But all four the Gospels place great emphasis and attach great importance to the FACT by the coming of the Christ THE SABBATH WAS CHANGED FROM AN OLD TESTAMENT TO THE NEW TESTAMENT SABBATH DAY.
But you are perfectly right, there INDEED IS no discussion amoung the Jews OR Gentiles in all of the New Testament "about the changing of the day of rest from the sabbath to the 1st day of the week"!!
8 1/2 of those commandments are repeated for NT Christians. The sabbath commandment is not and is explained further-- Romans 14;5,6; Colossians 2:16. And the commandment to not worship idols or objects is repeated, but not the complete statement, "You shall not make any graven image or any likeness of anything." If that part were followed, it would rule out photography, engineering drawing, computer icons, among many other things.
GE:
Billwald, this much the New Testament makes clear, the New Testament Sabbath - JUST like the Old Testament Sabbath Day, is about GOD's WORKS OF REDEMPTION-REST, not about man's work or attempt at physical rest. When you have to do with the Sabbath Day of the LORD your God you have to do with an issue of faith--- Christian faith--- Christian faith in God and in God's works and Great Work, finished, blessed and sanctified in Jesus Christ, through Him, and for his sake and honour ONLY. We say, we 'worship' on the Sabbath Day. Yes, we worship God on all days; but not as the Body of Christ's Own. God is good to us as his People every day of our lives, but God on the Seventh Day WORKS seven time harder towards our rest. God's rest is the ultimate of God's works, even of God's works of salvation. Therefore God --- not us --- "made the Sabbath". And God today still every Seventh Day of the week, MAKES the Sabbath Day a servant unto Himself and of the People of God. The Sabbath _DAY_ is the servant of the servants of the Servant of the LORD, Jesus Christ. In that order of honour.
God called the TEN Commandments: "This (ONE) word"; one "covenant"; a single "Law" and based IT on yet two other 'laws' regarded as the very same and only 'law', the 'greatest law' of to love God above all and one's fellow men as oneself. SIMPLY SO repeated in the New Testamen.... man, just like that, precisely, just like that, in the NEW Testament. Now you want to tell us, no, 1 and a half of certain parts of the Great Law were left out, or taken out, and thrown away, worthless and worse that worthless because those one and a half parts are actually against the spirit of the Law of God, and contrary the Great Commandment. Yet Jesus never told us anything about that..... Or the writers of the NT. They wrote the Gospels long after any other document of the NT, but they never tell us, beware, the Sabbath and the values associated with it, they actually should be excluded from the life of the Church. The Sabbath does not serve the Church anymore; it actually has become improper for God's People as Christians. But the writers never gave us warning; never wrote an introduction to their books; did not leave a footnote somewhere; never wrote an apology or explanation after. And the Holy Spirit remained dumb on purpose or must deliberately have fooled us all with letting the writers record everything so strenuously about the Sabbath in their stories OF THE LIFE OF THE FIRST CHRISTIAN CHURCH.
Besides, sir, it's simply incorrect fabricated multiplication of words the New Testament or and God does not enjoin the Seventh Day Sabbath on the People of God.
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GE:
You say, "8 1/2 of those commandments are repeated for NT Christians. The sabbath commandment is not and is explained further-- ......Colossians 2:16." What do I need say more? Could you, improve on what you have said yourself? What could you ask for besides that 'The sabbath commandment ... is explained further......Colossians 2:16'? Colossians 2:16' says THE SAME AS MK2:27-28, Hb4:8-10, 4:4-5, Rv1:10 --- in fact, the same as the whole Bible about the Sabbath Day! What a "comfort" (2:2) and encouragement for the Body of Christ's Own the Christian Church is this text, "Don't let yourselves be condemned or judged or damned with regard to your eating and drinking of feast"-- OF CHRIST, "of month's or of Sabbaths' feast”—of CHRIST .... be not beguiled of your reward"-- which is Christ! But "holding to the Head .... nourishment being furnished (eating and drinking spiritually of Jesus Christ) growing with the growth of God"—“Sabbaths’ feasting”!
A better illustration of true Christian ‘Sabbaths' observance’, cannot be asked for.
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