The 1000 years

[Amy.G]

I thought I would start this thread in Other Denoms so that we could get views from various people, not just Baptists.

What is your view on the 1000 years spoken of in Revelation 20?

NKJV
Rev 20:1 THEN I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
Rev 20:3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

 

[ray Marshall]

I thought I would start this thread in Other Denoms so that we could get views from various people, not just Baptists.

What is your view on the 1000 years spoken of in Revelation 20?

NKJV
Rev 20:1 THEN I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
Rev 20:3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Rev,20,3 It is my belief that the 1000yr. is passed and Satan has been released for a little season. So much un-GODLY is happening in this present time.

 

[Amy.G]

Rev,20,3 It is my belief that the 1000yr. is passed and Satan has been released for a little season. So much un-GODLY is happening in this present time.

That's interesting. When was it? Ungoldy things have been happening since Adam and Eve sinned.

 

[ray Marshall]

That's interesting. When was it? Ungoldy things have been happening since Adam and Eve sinned.

The things that Jesus talked about are in simularity.
Luke 17:20,21
Luke 17:20 And when (Jesus) he was demanded of the Pharisses, When the Kingdom of GOD should come, he answered them and said.
21, The Kingdon of GOD cometh not with observation.

In other words, when it comes, you won't see it. Just as when Satin is loosed, you will not see it either. but I suppose you will look upon mankind and see that which is happening.

 

[Amy.G]

The things that Jesus talked about are in simularity.
Luke 17:20,21
Luke 17:20 And when (Jesus) he was demanded of the Pharisses, When the Kingdom of GOD should come, he answered them and said.
21, The Kingdon of GOD cometh not with observation.

In other words, when it comes, you won't see it. Just as when Satin is loosed, you will not see it either. but I suppose you will look upon mankind and see that which is happening.

The problem with that view is that the 1000 years could not have already happened because at the end of it Jesus returns, which He has not done yet.
We could still be in the 1000 years if you hold to the view that "1000" is symbolic of an undetermined amount of time or a "long" time.

I do have problems with the pre-trib/pre-mil notion that the Kingdom is yet to come, for the same reasons as you posted. Jesus said "it is not of this world" and it cannot be seen. The Jews made the mistake also of expecting a "worldly" kingdom.



Edit: Why are there so few responses on the subject of end times or eschatolgy? Is it unstudied? Or is it boring to most people? I dont get it.

 

[Marcia]

I do have problems with the pre-trib/pre-mil notion that the Kingdom is yet to come, for the same reasons as you posted. Jesus said "it is not of this world" and it cannot be seen. The Jews made the mistake also of expecting a "worldly" kingdom.

Well, I know you wanted non-Baptist response and I'm Baptist, so hope you don't mind.

Most pre-trib views I know of teach that the Kingdom is here spiritually in the church (the Holy Spirit dwelling in believers) and is yet to come, when Jesus returns and establishes it visibly.

A very good book on the Kingdom, which is helping me quite a bit, is The Gospel of the Kingdom by George Eldon Ladd. I am almost finished with it. I found out while I was about halfway through it, from someone telling me, that Ladd was Post-trib, but I have not seen that in the book so far. It is extremely interesting. My NT professor at seminary recommended it. Have your Bible handy when you read it!

Edit: Why are there so few responses on the subject of end times or eschatolgy? Is it unstudied? Or is it boring to most people? I dont get it

Imo, most people have not studied it and/or find it difficult or confusing.

 

[Amy.G]

Well, I know you wanted non-Baptist response and I'm Baptist, so hope you don't mind.

Most pre-trib views I know of teach that the Kingdom is here spiritually in the church (the Holy Spirit dwelling in believers) and is yet to come, when Jesus returns and establishes it visibly.

A very good book on the Kingdom, which is helping me quite a bit, is The Gospel of the Kingdom by George Eldon Ladd. I am almost finished with it. I found out while I was about halfway through it, from someone telling me, that Ladd was Post-trib, but I have not seen that in the book so far. It is extremely interesting. My NT professor at seminary recommended it. Have your Bible handy when you read it!



Imo, most people have not studied it and/or find it difficult or confusing.

Thanks Marcia. No I don't mind that you are Baptist! :laugh:
I always enjoy talking with you.

This is certainly a difficult subject as you say. I say we should just all wade in and see how deep the water is! :laugh:

It's the best way to learn for me. It forces me to think.

 

[Ed Edwards]

OF my 14k+ posts on this board alone (6years, since Nov 2002) about 6,000 of them were on the subject of Eschatology. If you have any questions as you read them, be sure to ask me specifically :wavey:

 

[Amy.G]

OF my 14k+ posts on this board alone (6years, since Nov 2002) about 6,000 of them were on the subject of Eschatology. If you have any questions as you read them, be sure to ask me specifically :wavey:

Ok Ed. What do you say about the 1000 years? Is it future, now or past?

I'm asking you specifically.:laugh:

 

[Ed Edwards]

The 1,000 years starts one month after Jesus Returns at the End of the Tribulation period. The End of the Tribulation will happen 7.0 years after the rapture/resurrection of the mostly Gentile Church Age Saints. The End of the Tribulation will happen 3.5 years after the Antichrist /1 John/ (Beast from the Sea /Rev 12/, Prince that will come /Dan 9/, etc.) enters the rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem and declares himself as god.

The Millennial Messianic Kingdom has not happened yet because:
1. the rapture/resurrection of the Saints by Jesus has not happened yet


The end of the Millennial Messianic Kingdom will happen about 1k years after it starts (or could last a long time more than 1,000 literal years). The Millennial Messianic Kingdom is not the same thing as the eternal state of mankind in Glory either on the earth or in heaven. During the Millennial Messianic Kingdom there will be a physical Jesus ruling on a physical throne (of David) in a physical Jerusalem on a physical Earth. Messiah Jesus will have 144,000 physical Jewish males (Messianic Jews from our era) helping him. There will be a physical Jewish Kingdom and Messiah Jesus shall be both Priest and King and Prophet and Judge in this physical Jewish Kingdom.

That is some stuff I remember off the top of my head. Good night.

 

[Amy.G]

The 1,000 years starts one month after Jesus Returns at the End of the Tribulation period. The End of the Tribulation will happen 7.0 years after the rapture/resurrection of the mostly Gentile Church Age Saints. The End of the Tribulation will happen 3.5 years after the Antichrist /1 John/ (Beast from the Sea /Rev 12/, Prince that will come /Dan 9/, etc.) enters the rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem and declares himself as god.

The Millennial Messianic Kingdom has not happened yet because:
1. the rapture/resurrection of the Saints by Jesus has not happened yet


The end of the Millennial Messianic Kingdom will happen about 1k years after it starts (or could last a long time more than 1,000 literal years). The Millennial Messianic Kingdom is not the same thing as the eternal state of mankind in Glory either on the earth or in heaven. During the Millennial Messianic Kingdom there will be a physical Jesus ruling on a physical throne (of David) in a physical Jerusalem on a physical Earth. Messiah Jesus will have 144,000 physical Jewish males (Messianic Jews from our era) helping him. There will be a physical Jewish Kingdom and Messiah Jesus shall be both Priest and King and Prophet and Judge in this physical Jewish Kingdom.

That is some stuff I remember off the top of my head. Good night.

Questions:

How do you know it will begin 1 month after the tribulation ends?

Is Christ not already Priest, King, prophet and judge?

When the 1000 years begins and Christ comes to earth, won't He return to a devistated mess after the wrath of God has been poured out?

Will the mortal mix with the immortal?

Why will there be a Jewish temple? What is it's purpose?

Aren't we (the body of Christ) the temple?

 

[Zenas]

On his program yesterday, Chuck Swindoll discussed the rapture and his eschatological views are very premillenial. One thing he said, that the majority of Christians are amillenial, i.e., they don't believe in a literal 1000 year reign of Christ and they believe the "1000 years" is the present Christian age of long but undetermined length. However, when I read the Bible I can't see it. Is there anyone who could explain amillenialism so it fits in with Revelation 19 and 20?

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

The "a" millennial position literally means "no" millennium. Amils see the millennial age as one of both the triumph of the spiritual (not physical) kingdom of God and the corresponding rise of evil in opposition. The "1000 years" are symbolic of the entire inter-advental age - the two advents of the Lord. Satan is bound by Christ's victory and the establishment of the kingdom of God through the preaching of the gospel. At the end of the millennial age, Christ returns in judgment.

Similarly in Psalms 50 -- the thousand hills are symbolic. (Unless you believe that God owns 1000 of them but Satan owns the rest.)

 

[ray Marshall]

The "a" millennial position literally means "no" millennium. Amils see the millennial age as one of both the triumph of the spiritual (not physical) kingdom of God and the corresponding rise of evil in opposition. The "1000 years" are symbolic of the entire inter-advental age - the two advents of the Lord. Satan is bound by Christ's victory and the establishment of the kingdom of God through the preaching of the gospel. At the end of the millennial age, Christ returns in judgment.

Similarly in Psalms 50 -- the thousand hills are symbolic. (Unless you believe that God owns 1000 of them but Satan owns the rest.)

I may be wrong am sometimes I am but I don't think there way much preaching about a 1000 yrs theory. As time has passed throughout our journey, we had a time period that a lot of preachers preaced that in order to go to Heaven, you must absolutely be baptised. Now in our time it is preached a lot of as I would have to say, "You must except Christ or you will split Hell wide-open. However, some of the chirches have seen that error and now have preach that Jesus did the finished-work on the cross. However I expect to be raked through the coals for making such a daring subject.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The "a" millennial position literally means "no" millennium. Amils see the millennial age as one of both the triumph of the spiritual (not physical) kingdom of God and the corresponding rise of evil in opposition. The "1000 years" are symbolic of the entire inter-advental age - the two advents of the Lord. Satan is bound by Christ's victory and the establishment of the kingdom of God through the preaching of the gospel. At the end of the millennial age, Christ returns in judgment.

Similarly in Psalms 50 -- the thousand hills are symbolic. (Unless you believe that God owns 1000 of them but Satan owns the rest.)

GE:
Thank you, friend! This is neat and simple and true. Thank God for it! Why must people always complicate things? Like Ed Edwards -- I, for one, shall NRVER be able to understand the very first principle of his 'views'. One must be mathematics genius I guess, to.

No, give me this so beautiful 'a-mil' simplicity, one can LOVE it, so clear and refreshing is it. For what, o, for what the perphernalia of pre- and post- and heavens know what else!

One thing that help these geneiuses to understand a bit of the a-mil simplicity, is the 'loosing' of the devil.

I understand it as that when Jesus will have returned, and all the wicked had been raised, satan will be allowed to gather them all together to march against the New Jerusalem that will have come down from heaven with Christ, and then the fires of hell will be poured over them to destroy everything wicked and sinful, the earth is recreated into the New Earth, and the redeemed all lived happily ever after under the personal Kingship of Jesus Christ.
O yes, and that explains the last plagues as well, which will form part of the punishment upon the wicked and the devil; they can be explain as the fires of hell in a sense - not in the only sense.
The duration of this stage wherein God executes his judgments upon sin and wickedness will be a short period which is all anyone can tell. But that it shall be literal just like the earth shall be made new by God literally, and the redeemed shall inhabit the earth literally, their inherited 'heaven' for eternity.

 

[Ed Edwards]

The "a" millennial position literally means "no" millennium. Amils see the millennial age as one of both the triumph of the spiritual (not physical) kingdom of God and the corresponding rise of evil in opposition. The "1000 years" are symbolic of the entire inter-advental age - the two advents of the Lord. Satan is bound by Christ's victory and the establishment of the kingdom of God through the preaching of the gospel. At the end of the millennial age, Christ returns in judgment.

Similarly in Psalms 50 -- the thousand hills are symbolic. (Unless you believe that God owns 1000 of them but Satan owns the rest.)

That is the correct info about the 'a-millennial' viewpoint: the Millennial Messianic Reign of Messiah Jesus is taken to be Spiritial (and not physcial, some say 'figurative not literal' but the Spiritual/Physical divide seems better to me. the Spiritual/Physical divide allows for the condition that some call Spiritual/literal.

Anyway, There is a divide among a-mills about the Second Coming in relation to the Tribulation.

1. The a-trib/a-mill - The Millennial Messianic Reign of Messiah Jesus is to be understood as a Spiritual truth; the tribulation period is to be understood as a Spiritual truth; the Second Coming of Jesus is to be understsood a Spiritual truth

2. The post-trib/a-mill - The Millennial Messianic Reign of Messiah Jesus is to be understood as a Spiritual truth; the tribulation period is to be understood as a physical truth going on during Millennial Messianic Reign of Messiah Jesus (i.e. NOW); the Second Coming of Jesus is a Spiritual/Physical truth that ends the current age; current Tribulation Period.

I believe neither of these scenarios - I'm pretribulation rapurist and a pre-millinnial (pre-Millennial Messianic Reign of Messiah Jesus) Second Coming of Messiah Jesus. There are many verses and passages in the Bible that teach toward the pre-trib rapture and pre-millinnial Second Coming of Messiah Jesus.
But mostly the pre-trib rapture & pre-mill Second Coming comes from a set of the Most Logical pre-suppositions.

For example, if you believe that mankind are inclined to do good to one another and try to find out how to worship God best - you will NEVER get to the pre-trib/pre-mill position - you will be an Idealist

If you believe that the prophecy of the Bible is largely fulfilled already in the First Coming of Messiah Jesus and the 40 years following (i.e are a Peterist) then you will NEVER get to the pre-trib/pre-mill position

If you believe that the Millennial Messanic Reign of Messiah Jesus is the current Church Age (Pentacost to Mt. Olivet, first coming to second coming) then you will NEVER get to the pre-trib/pre-mill position - you will be a historist

Only the Futurist - who presupposes that the Prophecies of Scripture are largely to happen in our future - can be pre-trib & post-trib.

I have looked down all four of these paths, the Futurist leads the furtherist while agreeing with the Bible the most. So the presumption you make, determine the Eschatology you get. But there is a best set of presumptions in Doctrine that Many Baptists have made that lead to correct Doctrines that are both logical and Biblically Sound.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Ed Edwards:
"Anyway, There is a divide among a-mills about the Second Coming in relation to the Tribulation.

1. The a-trib/a-mill - The Millennial Messianic Reign of Messiah Jesus is to be understood as a Spiritual truth; the tribulation period is to be understood as a Spiritual truth; the Second Coming of Jesus is to be understsood a Spiritual truth

2. The post-trib/a-mill - The Millennial Messianic Reign of Messiah Jesus is to be understood as a Spiritual truth; the tribulation period is to be understood as a physical truth going on during Millennial Messianic Reign of Messiah Jesus (i.e. NOW); the Second Coming of Jesus is a Spiritual/Physical truth that ends the current age; current Tribulation Period."

GE:
This is not the viewpoints on the 'a-mil's' - this is the pretentions of Ed Edwards'.

 

[Amy.G]

Can anybody answer my questions? I'll post them again.

Questions:

How do you know it (the millennium) will begin 1 month after the tribulation ends?

Is Christ not already Priest, King, prophet and judge?

When the 1000 years begins and Christ comes to earth, won't He return to a devistated mess after the wrath of God has been poured out?

Will the mortal mix with the immortal?

Why will there be a Jewish temple? What is it's purpose?

Aren't we (the body of Christ) the temple?

 

[Ed Edwards]

About the 30 days from the physical Second Coming until physical Millennial Messanic Reign of Messiah Jesus starts. (1260 days + 30 days = 1290 days, see Daniel 12 :12)

On his program yesterday, Chuck Swindoll discussed the rapture and his eschatological views are very premillenial. One thing he said, that the majority of Christians are amillenial, i.e., they don't believe in a literal 1000 year reign of Christ and they believe the "1000 years" is the present Christian age of long but undetermined length. However, when I read the Bible I can't see it. Is there anyone who could explain amillenialism so it fits in with Revelation 19 and 20?

No, nobody can explain How Revelation 20 fits with the a-mill position. The a-mill position would be lot easier to explain without Revelation 20. Here is the pet verse of the a-mills that I know:

2 Peter 3:10-11 (KJV1611 Edition):
But the day of the Lord wil come as a thiefe in the night, in the which the heauens shall passe away with a great noise, and the Elements shall melt with feruent heate, the earth also and the works that are therin shalbe burnt vp.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolued, What maner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conuersation, and godlinesse,

Here is a so called 'simple explanation' of this passage by a-mills, unfortunately it is a WRONG understanding.

Caution: WRONG STATEMENT:
The 'day of the Lord' like other occurrences of 'day of the Lord' is when Jesus Comes again (AKA: Second Coming, advent, rapture, resurrection, etc). Then the universes are trashed to make way for it being restored. Note that according to this a-mill theory, the 20th chapter of Revelation needs to be trashed, 1,000 years worth of history trashed
Caution: WRONG STATEMENT.

Correct interpretation: 'day of the Lord' = the 1,000 year long (Millennial) Messianic Kingdom when Messiah Jesus shall reign on earth on David's throne. The ',' here is the Millennial Messianic Kingdom, just like in Revelation 20. Yep, the Millennial Messianic Kingdom is like a comma in 2 Peter 3:10


BTW, this passage shows something else, Eschatology Prophecy is give by God to help us walk properly (conversation) in the world and God-like behavior (Godliness). I know it complicates one's pet Eschatology theory, but how does your Eschatolgy help you in your works-witness to other people?

 

[Ed Edwards]

Ed Edwards:
"Anyway, There is a divide among a-mills about the Second Coming in relation to the Tribulation.

1. The a-trib/a-mill - The Millennial Messianic Reign of Messiah Jesus is to be understood as a Spiritual truth; the tribulation period is to be understood as a Spiritual truth; the Second Coming of Jesus is to be understsood a Spiritual truth

2. The post-trib/a-mill - The Millennial Messianic Reign of Messiah Jesus is to be understood as a Spiritual truth; the tribulation period is to be understood as a physical truth going on during Millennial Messianic Reign of Messiah Jesus (i.e. NOW); the Second Coming of Jesus is a Spiritual/Physical truth that ends the current age; current Tribulation Period."

GE:
This is not the viewpoints on the 'a-mil's' - this is the pretentions of Ed Edwards'.

God is logical, it is the basis of science.
God's logic is so high above our logic that lots of time we don't even know what God's logic is. However, it is God's nature to be like the logic of God that humans understand. Man's logic is a small subset of God's logic. However, if one understands human logic (a branch of mathematics) one does know more about God's logic. Ignorance here is NOT Godly, knowledge and wisdom are Godly.

What does 'pretentions' mean in this context? 'Presuppositions' are part of human logic - a necessary part.