The Abomination Of Desolation

[Cathode]

“What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.” Ecc 1:9

There are elements of Antichrist in Nero, but he was merely a prefigurement of the future final Antichrist of prophecy.

In these prefigurements, we get a clearer picture of what the future Antichrist will be like.

Scripture has many recurring narratives in it.

 

[Lodic]

False. Revelation 11:15, ". . . And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. . . ." The kingdoms of this world will otherwise not even see the kingdom of God. John 3:3, Revelation 21:27.

Rev 11:15 doesn't say "1,000 years". However, I think you could be right. They do both seem to describe the kingdom of God, which will last forever.

 

[Lodic]

1 Cor. 11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
So you see the NC was introduced by Jesus at the "Last Supper" & sealed with Jesus' death.

Agreed. However, that doesn't change the fact that AD 70 was judgement on Israel that brought about the end of the old covenant.

Why, I HAVE, TOO so proven ! ! I posted a list of things attributed to the true beast that Nero didn't do or undergo. The MOST-TELLING is that he was NOT cast alive into hell, His death is a historical fact! The TRUE beast will be cast alive into hell AT JESUS' RETURN! As Jesus did NOT return in Nero's time, he could NOT have been the beast! Please get that garbage outta your head !

Each of us have posted things to prove our case many times, and neither of us is going to budge. Clearly, we are at an impasse.

OK, say you're right about that. We understand Danny's prophecy about the AOD to have been fulfilled the 1st time by Antiochus Epiphanes & his statue of Zeus in the temple. So, according to Jesus' words, we are to watch for a similar event to fulfill Jesus' words. And that event did NOT occur before the temple was destroyed. Remember, Danny said it eould be PLACED & SET UP, & no such thing happened in the old temple.

In Daniel 12:11, the AOD could be either "set up" or "put in place". In either case, this doesn't necessarily mean a statue. The Roman army was put in place in AD 70, which definitely fulfilled Daniel 11:31.

YOU do exactly what you say I do. You say "the whole world" doesn't mean "the whole world". You say "It's already happened" & then try to shoehorn some other event into Scripture to show fulfillment. THAT HIPPO WON'T FLY!

No, I look back to the original language. If the word is "oikumene" (also translated as "the land"), I see where else this word is used. The context and other uses tell us the meaning - e.g. "the land" of the Roman empire.

Then you must believe Gentry over JESUS.

I just believe Gentry over you. I believe Jesus over everyone else.

No, you spread false teachings by taking Gentry & others like him at their word without checking it out for yourself.

Rev. 8:8 Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. 9 And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
Cn you tell us from history when THIS happened?

Of course I check out Scripture and history for myself. That is why I am so convinced of the truth of Preterism.

Rev 8:8 was fulfilled in AD 70. In your zeal to interpret everything in Revelation literally, you fail to recognize symbolic prophecies.

 

[robycop3]

Agreed. However, that doesn't change the fact that AD 70 was judgement on Israel that brought about the end of the old covenant.

I pretty well mostly agree. It was the culmination of the "days of vengeance" pronounced against the Jews of Jesus' generation. However, they didn't learn from it & so underwent a much-greater punishment beginning in 135-136 AD when the Romans under Hadrian expelled them from their land, culminating in the nazi holocaust.

Each of us have posted things to prove our case many times, and neither of us is going to budge. Clearly, we are at an impasse.

And we WILL be until you accept the undeniable FACTS that have been presented.

In Daniel 12:11, the AOD could be either "set up" or "put in place". In either case, this doesn't necessarily mean a statue. The Roman army was put in place in AD 70, which definitely fulfilled Daniel 11:31.

No, the Roman army marched itself around J. There was only a small band of Macedonian soldiers with Antiochus when he did the first AOD.

No, I look back to the original language. If the word is "oikumene" (also translated as "the land"), I see where else this word is used. The context and other uses tell us the meaning - e.g. "the land" of the Roman empire.

Land is LAND. Russia is as much land as Asia Minor.

I just believe Gentry over you. I believe Jesus over everyone else.

No, you believe Gentry over undeniable history, and over JESUS. Jesus said the beast would be cast alive into hell at His return, while Gentry said Nero was the beast, despite the fact that he died without being cast into hell, and Jesus didn't then return. Now, I didn't make those facts up; I stated them from Scripture and history.

Of course I check out Scripture and history for myself. That is why I am so convinced of the truth of Preterism.

Evidently, you "check" them with a very-biased eye. You've put yourself in thrall to Gentry's trash, so you compare all Scripture & facts of history to Gentry's bunk, making it your highest written authority. If that weren't true, you wouldn't believe a word Gentry writes. You've fallen into a mess. It's gonna take the HOLY SPIRIT to break your thralldom to purveyors of bunk & focus on GOD'S WORD, & NOT THAT OF MAN.

Rev 8:8 was fulfilled in AD 70.

Oh, REALLY? Let's see it in history ! ! !

In your zeal to interpret everything in Revelation literally, you fail to recognize symbolic prophecies.

Ahhh! SYMBOLISM ! The great pret escape from reality ! !
When a pret can't find fulfillment of a Biblical prophecy in history, he immediately reduces that prophecy to "symbolic" status to attempt to justify his belief in a false doctrine.

1 Tim. 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

 

[Lodic]

And we WILL be until you accept the undeniable FACTS that have been presented.

Or our impasse will continue until you accept the undeniable facts that have been presented that prove Preterism.

Land is LAND. Russia is as much land as Asia Minor.

"The land" wouldn't make sense unless it referred to specific land - i.e., the Roman Empire or Israel.

No, you believe Gentry over undeniable history, and over JESUS. Jesus said the beast would be cast alive into hell at His return, while Gentry said Nero was the beast, despite the fact that he died without being cast into hell, and Jesus didn't then return. Now, I didn't make those facts up; I stated them from Scripture and history.

As an honorable man of God, you would never state something you just made up. However, I believe you don't understand prophetic Scripture as well as you think. While you recognize some symbolism, you fail to recognize a lot of it, so you try to make impossible events to be literal.

No, you believe Gentry over undeniable history, and over JESUS. Jesus said the beast would be cast alive into hell at His return, while Gentry said Nero was the beast, despite the fact that he died without being cast into hell, and Jesus didn't then return. Now, I didn't make those facts up; I stated them from Scripture and history.

Again, I take the words of Jesus over all others. Partial Preterist (Gentry, DeMar, et al) understand what Jesus said, and what prophecy actually points to - and it's not the "futurist" fantasies that you are stuck on. I compare everything I read or hear to Scripture. The "Futurist" view doesn't pass the "truth" test. Admittedly, there are some issues I have questions about in the Preterist view, but I know the view well enough to trust that it's true.

 

[robycop3]

Or our impasse will continue until you accept the undeniable facts that have been presented that prove Preterism.

There haven't been any.

"The land" wouldn't make sense unless it referred to specific land - i.e., the Roman Empire or Israel.

Actually, that'd be "this land" or "that land" or "the land of - - - -", etc.

As an honorable man of God, you would never state something you just made up. However, I believe you don't understand prophetic Scripture as well as you think. While you recognize some symbolism, you fail to recognize a lot of it, so you try to make impossible events to be literal.

OF COURSE I don't recognie a literal event as symbolic.

Again, I take the words of Jesus over all others.

Then, why do you believe Gentry over Jesus?

Partial Preterist (Gentry, DeMar, et al) understand what Jesus said, and what prophecy actually points to - and it's not the "futurist" fantasies that you are stuck on.

No, they're guessing or making up stuff as they go in order to sell boox. Like KJVOs, they're long on fiction, short on FACTS.

I compare everything I read or hear to Scripture.

Evidently, none too-closely.

The "Futurist" view doesn't pass the "truth" test. Admittedly, there are some issues I have questions about in the Preterist view, but I know the view well enough to trust that it's true.

I hafta laugh at this!
If you've read every word of the Revelation, you should know that, when Jesus returns, He will be here to STAY. And you should know that, at His return, the beast will send his army to fight Him. And you should know that, AT THAT TIME, the beast & FP will be captured & cast alive into hell.

Now, we know undeniably from history, that Nero DIED, & was NOT cast into hell alive, nor did Jesus then physically, visibly return, to stay. And Nero had no false prophet deputy, did not issue any marka the beast, nor commit the AOD. Any court in any nation would find Nero was NOT the beast. You should PLAINLY see he was not the beast, as you cannot deny the fact that he died & his body was entombed in a special sepulchre.
BUT YET YOU STILL INSIST NERO WAS THE BEAST ! faced with your still believing that bunk in the face of a MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE DISPROVING IT, I'm beginning to question your judgment. What you're doing is worse than believing the Axis won WW2. You're simply proving your thralldom to Gentry's stuff is greater than your belief of the truth of God's word, as you plainly take Gentry's word over that of Jesus more than once.

I'm trying to remain polite, but it's hard in the face of such foolishness!

 

[Lodic]

OF COURSE I don't recognize a literal event as symbolic.

Keeping in mind that most of Revelation is a vision, why do you insist that symbolic "pictures" are to be taken literally?

Then, why do you believe Gentry over Jesus?

To turn this around, why do you believe Darby, Scofield, Missler, et al? Those who teach the "Futurist" view change the meaning of what Jesus and the prophets said. You insist that "this generation" means "that generation"; "soon" means "quickly", "near" means "certain", "at hand" means "will be at hand". Yet, Preterists are accused of not taking the Bible literally. The truth is that it's Futurists who do not take Scripture literally. We also recognize a lot of symbolic language in the Old Testament, and know that it's perfectly logical to see the same type of symbolic language in the New Testament.

If you've read every word of the Revelation, you should know that, when Jesus returns, He will be here to STAY. And you should know that, at His return, the beast will send his army to fight Him. And you should know that, AT THAT TIME, the beast & FP will be captured & cast alive into hell.

Now, we know undeniably from history, that Nero DIED, & was NOT cast into hell alive, nor did Jesus then physically, visibly return, to stay. And Nero had no false prophet deputy, did not issue any marka the beast, nor commit the AOD. Any court in any nation would find Nero was NOT the beast. You should PLAINLY see he was not the beast, as you cannot deny the fact that he died & his body was entombed in a special sepulchre.
BUT YET YOU STILL INSIST NERO WAS THE BEAST ! faced with your still believing that bunk in the face of a MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE DISPROVING IT, I'm beginning to question your judgment. What you're doing is worse than believing the Axis won WW2. You're simply proving your thralldom to Gentry's stuff is greater than your belief of the truth of God's word, as you plainly take Gentry's word over that of Jesus more than once.

I'm sure you've studied Revelation many times, and I assure you that I have too. Long before I switched to the Preterist view, I already believed the fantastic imagery in Revelation was symbolic. As you stated earlier, a symbol points to something greater than itself, which I've always agreed with. DeMar and Gentry showed me what the symbols in Revelation, the Olivet Discourse, etc. point to.
You are stuck on the detail of when the Beast and False Prophet were thrown alive into the Lake of Fire. I don't know the details well enough to provide a solid answer. However, I know that everything else in Revelation is centered around the Jewish Wars and the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem. I don't have to change language or invent a gap between Daniel's 69th & 70th Weeks to find it. Truthfully, I'm not worried about that detail, as I am sure the Holy Spirit will reveal it to me eventually, just as He has revealed the proper way to study Biblical prophecy.

No disrespect intended, but from my perspective, it's those who cling to the Futurist view in the face of such overwhelming evidence of the Preterist view who are truly foolish and blind.

 

[robycop3]

Keeping in mind that most of Revelation is a vision, why do you insist that symbolic "pictures" are to be taken literally?

Because they showed future litera;l events.

To turn this around, why do you believe Darby, Scofield, Missler, et al? Those who teach the "Futurist" view change the meaning of what Jesus and the prophets said. You insist that "this generation" means "that generation"; "soon" means "quickly", "near" means "certain", "at hand" means "will be at hand". Yet, Preterists are accused of not taking the Bible literally. The truth is that it's Futurists who do not take Scripture literally. We also recognize a lot of symbolic language in the Old Testament, and know that it's perfectly logical to see the same type of symbolic language in the New Testament.

We have the backing of history; prets have the backing of quacks & guesswork.

I'm sure you've studied Revelation many times, and I assure you that I have too. Long before I switched to the Preterist view, I already believed the fantastic imagery in Revelation was symbolic.

Thjat's because deep inside, you knew it hadn't happened yet. You believed it was impossible.

Do you believe it was impossible for God to enable Balaam's donkey to talk? Was it impossiblt for Him to have resurrected Lazarus, who'd been dead 4 days? How about feeding several thousand people from one little picnic basket? How about causing the sin to appear to temporarily reverse its course for Hezekiah & Isaiah?
Why can't He perform all the events of Revelation just-as-easily?

As you stated earlier, a symbol points to something greater than itself, which I've always agreed with. DeMar and Gentry showed me what the symbols in Revelation, the Olivet Discourse, etc. point to.

No, they showed you the quackery they invented to help them sell boox to gullible people like you.

You are stuck on the detail of when the Beast and False Prophet were thrown alive into the Lake of Fire. I don't know the details well enough to provide a solid answer.

There aren't many details to know. In the first 18 verses of Rev. 19, we see in the vision that Jesus has returned. Here's what immediately follows-Rev. 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
And they're not mentione again til Rev. 20:10 when Satan is cast into the LOF to join them. THAT'S ALL THE DETAILS THERE ARE ! NOW YOU KNOW THEM ! And we know for certain that DIDN'T happen to Nero, so you have NO reason to believe that "Nero = the beast" garbage.

However, I know that everything else in Revelation is centered around the Jewish Wars and the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem.

No, you only know what you've read from the writings of quacks.

I don't have to change language or invent a gap between Daniel's 69th & 70th Weeks to find it. Truthfully, I'm not worried about that detail, as I am sure the Holy Spirit will reveal it to me eventually, just as He has revealed the proper way to study Biblical prophecy.

I'm sure the HOLY SPIRIT didn't tell you to believe Gentry over JESUS !

No disrespect intended, but from my perspective, it's those who cling to the Futurist view in the face of such overwhelming evidence of the Preterist view who are truly foolish and blind.

WHAT "overwhelming evidence" ???????????????????????????????????????????????
All I've seen from prets is eisegesis, opinion, & guesswork. History makes little Aesops or Uncle Remuses outta every preterist.

 

[Lodic]

We have the backing of history; prets have the backing of quacks & guesswork.

That's one of your favorite defenses, but it really isn't true. History and Scripture prove Preterism. The only safety net for Futurism is that we can't "disprove" something that is supposedly in our future. It's just as much fantasy as Star Trek. Entertaining, but fictitious.

That's because deep inside, you knew it hadn't happened yet. You believed it was impossible.

Do you believe it was impossible for God to enable Balaam's donkey to talk? Was it impossible for Him to have resurrected Lazarus, who'd been dead 4 days? How about feeding several thousand people from one little picnic basket? How about causing the sun to appear to temporarily reverse its course for Hezekiah & Isaiah?
Why can't He perform all the events of Revelation just-as-easily?

Quite the opposite. Revelation is a series of visions of events which would destroy the world if they were literally true. Scripture records the miracles of Balaam's donkey, resurrection of Lazarus, etc. The sun didn't just appear to temporarily reverse its course, but literally happened. None of those events were visions, but are Biblical history. Prophecy is filled with symbolic language. We know that God never literally rode a cloud (Isaiah 19:1). God doesn't literally have chariots like a whirlwind (Jer 4:13). The moon has never literally become blood (Joel 2:31) On the last one, even you admit this probably means that it just looked like blood. I disagree, but the point is that we both know this did not literally happen.

No, they showed you the quackery they invented to help them sell boox to gullible people like you.

Prophecy books are big sellers for Christians. We could say the same for LaHaye, Hitchcock, and lots of others. Would you say the same regarding any other authors when they write books concerning doctrines which you disagree with? Are you opposed to all Christian authors writing commentaries to support their views, or just the views you disagree with?

I'm sure the HOLY SPIRIT didn't tell you to believe Gentry over JESUS !

I notice you avoid the issue of how Futurists change the meaning of words to make them fit your viewpoint. Did the Holy Spirit tell you to believe Chuck Missler and Mark Hitchcock over what the Scripture actually says? I just turn your arguments around.

WHAT "overwhelming evidence" ???????????????????????????????????????????????
All I've seen from prets is eisegesis, opinion, & guesswork. History makes little Aesops or Uncle Remuses outta every preterist.

The fact that all you've seen is eisegesis, opinion, & guesswork is because that's all you choose to see. I'm sure we would probably agree on most other doctrines, but we will always disagree on our views of eschatology. I doubt you will ever change your view, and I assure you that I am 100% convinced of the Partial Preterist view.

 

[Cathode]

Or our impasse will continue until you accept the undeniable facts that have been presented that prove Preterism.

This is why private interpretation always turns into tribal legalism and the truth takes a holiday in the sun until the wrangling stops.

Gentlemen, consider both and.

Look at types, contexts and prefigurements together and you will see elements of both. Both future events and prefigurements taken place in times past.

 

[Lodic]

This is why private interpretation always turns into tribal legalism and the truth takes a holiday in the sun until the wrangling stops.

Gentlemen, consider both and.

Look at types, contexts and prefigurements together and you will see elements of both. Both future events and prefigurements taken place in times past.

Thank you for your input, Brother. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you are suggesting that we look for elements of truth in both views. That could be a problem, because these views are opposed to each other, and I don't believe they will have a double fulfillment.

While @robycop3 and I have always disagreed regarding the End Times, I don't believe either of us is legalistic about our views. Each of us take a different interpretation of the Scriptures in our pursuit of truth. We both recognize Antiochus IV Epiphanes as a "type" of Abomination of Desolation.

For my part, I had believed in the future fulfillment of these prophecies from the time I was saved (1978) until about 15 years ago. I believe I have studied and analyzed that view quite extensively, and I'm convinced it is wrong for reasons that I've posted. I'm not sure what else to do about our different views, as both cannot be right.

 

[Cathode]

Thank you for your input, Brother. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you are suggesting that we look for elements of truth in both views. That could be a problem, because these views are opposed to each other, and I don't believe they will have a double fulfillment.

While @robycop3 and I have always disagreed regarding the End Times, I don't believe either of us is legalistic about our views. Each of us take a different interpretation of the Scriptures in our pursuit of truth. We both recognize Antiochus IV Epiphanes as a "type" of Abomination of Desolation.

For my part, I had believed in the future fulfillment of these prophecies from the time I was saved (1978) until about 15 years ago. I believe I have studied and analyzed that view quite extensively, and I'm convinced it is wrong for reasons that I've posted. I'm not sure what else to do about our different views, as both cannot be right.

When interpretations are in contest, there is always legalism over words.

There is no doubt that Nero was Antichrist in type, like types before and types after. But there will be a final embodiment of Antichrist before the Kingdom of the Divine Will Reigns on earth as it is in Heaven.

Look at all the prefigurements in scripture before we see the actual figure emerge.

One figure will embody them all.

Moses, Elijah, David were prefigurements of Christ, not perfect prefigurements, as none are, but glimpses of the final figure of Christ.

So with Antichrist we see those prefigurements even in recent history.

Look to see who the Jews do accept as the Messiah, one who will come in his own name. This will be the man of sin, the figure of sin, the final figure of lawlessness.

The Jews did not accept Nero the prefigurement, but they will accept the Messianic figure that finally comes in his own name.

I know you are well studied brother, but do not take a hard position lest you do not see the recurring prophetic nature of Scripture.

The conclusions of lawyers can sometimes be far from the truth. We can win arguments in our heads that have no part with the truth.

So I only say, be open to a possibility, allow that “ we’ll see “ possibility.

At least have the wisdom of Gamaliel, if our interpretation of future events is false, it will fall to nothing. But if our interpretation is true, then there is nothing stopping those events from coming to pass.

Allow a possibility in God’s hands and God’s timing. The “ We’ll see” possibility.

 

[Cathode]

While @robycop3 and I have always disagreed regarding the End Times, I don't believe either of us is legalistic about our views. Each of us take a different interpretation of the Scriptures in our pursuit of truth. We both recognize Antiochus IV Epiphanes as a "type" of Abomination of Desolation.

Look at the Plagues of Egypt and the Plagues of the Apocalypse using typological analysis. Prefigurements, not perfect prefigurements. Pharaoh being the figure of Antichrist.

Every move of Pharaoh brings about the counter move of God.

In each type believers see a more complete final figure of Antichrist.

The parting of the Red Sea and God’s powerful deception, so the unrighteous are destroyed.

In typology we see scripture open up in many, many ways not seen before. Scripture has many depths.

 

[robycop3]

That's one of your favorite defenses, but it really isn't true. History and Scripture prove Preterism.

No, they DON'T. I have repeatedly asked you to show us the occurrence of the eschatological events in history, and you can't, either saying they're symbolic, or this-n-that are fulfillments when they had nothing to do with it.

The only safety net for Futurism is that we can't "disprove" something that is supposedly in our future. It's just as much fantasy as Star Trek. Entertaining, but fictitious.

Easy to predict some things. if I jump put a 10th story window, it's easy to predict I'm gonna have a hard landing. Everything Jesus said was gonna happen bck then did, to the letter, so it's easy to predict that the rest of what He said is gonna happen, just as surely & completely.

The end of your partial pret doctrine is several things. One is that Jesus said He'd return IMMEDIATELY AFTER the end of the great trib. So, if the great trib ended in 70 AD, He's LONG-overdue! Another is that the world still goes on, as it did in 65 AD, 70 AD, & 71 AD.

Quite the opposite. Revelation is a series of visions of events which would destroy the world if they were literally true.

Not if controlled by GOD.

Scripture records the miracles of Balaam's donkey, resurrection of Lazarus, etc. The sun didn't just appear to temporarily reverse its course, but literally happened.

No, the earth's rotation was temporarily altered.

None of those events were visions, but are Biblical history. Prophecy is filled with symbolic language. We know that God never literally rode a cloud (Isaiah 19:1). God doesn't literally have chariots like a whirlwind (Jer 4:13).

How do you KNOW what God has or doesn't have? And what can He NOT do? (Not what He WON'T do!)

The moon has never literally become blood (Joel 2:31) On the last one, even you admit this probably means that it just looked like blood. I disagree, but the point is that we both know this did not literally happen.

The ancients didn't know what happened to the moon during a lunar eclipse. And more than one smoke cloud or volcanic dust cloud has made the moon appear blood-colored.

Prophecy books are big sellers for Christians. We could say the same for LaHaye, Hitchcock, and lots of others. Would you say the same regarding any other authors when they write books concerning doctrines which you disagree with? Are you opposed to all Christian authors writing commentaries to support their views, or just the views you disagree with?

In the USA & in most democracies, people have almost-complete freedom of speech, long is it's not threatening, treasonous, etc. In religious matters, it's almost unlimited in the USA. I would never attempt to silence someone writing religious views I don't agree with, but I HAVE THE SAME RIGHT TPPOSE THEM AS THEY HAVE TO EXPRESS THEM! And I'll continue to exercise that right.

I notice you avoid the issue of how Futurists change the meaning of words to make them fit your viewpoint. Did the Holy Spirit tell you to believe Chuck Missler and Mark Hitchcock over what the Scripture actually says? I just turn your arguments around.

We have unbiased history on our side, while prets must invent stuff.

The fact that all you've seen is eisegesis, opinion, & guesswork is because that's all you choose to see. I'm sure we would probably agree on most other doctrines, but we will always disagree on our views of eschatology. I doubt you will ever change your view, and I assure you that I am 100% convinced of the Partial Preterist view.

I suggest you PRAY & CLOSELY STUDY SOME HISTORY. I several HISTORICAL FACTS about Nero PROVING he was NOT the beast, but you still say he was cus your guru Gentry says he was. As I said, I have historical fact, while all a pret has is opinion and guesswork.

 

[Lodic]

When interpretations are in contest, there is always legalism over words.

There is no doubt that Nero was Antichrist in type, like types before and types after. But there will be a final embodiment of Antichrist before the Kingdom of the Divine Will Reigns on earth as it is in Heaven.

Look at all the prefigurements in scripture before we see the actual figure emerge.

One figure will embody them all.

Moses, Elijah, David were prefigurements of Christ, not perfect prefigurements, as none are, but glimpses of the final figure of Christ.

So with Antichrist we see those prefigurements even in recent history.

Look to see who the Jews do accept as the Messiah, one who will come in his own name. This will be the man of sin, the figure of sin, the final figure of lawlessness.

The Jews did not accept Nero the prefigurement, but they will accept the Messianic figure that finally comes in his own name.

I know you are well studied brother, but do not take a hard position lest you do not see the recurring prophetic nature of Scripture.

The conclusions of lawyers can sometimes be far from the truth. We can win arguments in our heads that have no part with the truth.

So I only say, be open to a possibility, allow that “ we’ll see “ possibility.

At least have the wisdom of Gamaliel, if our interpretation of future events is false, it will fall to nothing. But if our interpretation is true, then there is nothing stopping those events from coming to pass.

Allow a possibility in God’s hands and God’s timing. The “ We’ll see” possibility.

I suggest that one should not take such a "hard stand" that these events must be in our future that you overlook even considering the evidence that they were fulfilled in the past.

I'm open to that idea as long as you are just as open to the possibility that these events were fulfilled in the past. We will probably never know for sure this side of Heaven.

I can appreciate Gamaliel's argument. Our views will not change what has been nor what will be. Having said that, we should not shy away from making our case for our views. I do not begrudge my brothers for teaching what they believe is true, and I hope to receive the same courtesy. After all, this is not an issue where the wrong view will cost one's salvation.

 

[Lodic]

I suggest you PRAY & CLOSELY STUDY SOME HISTORY. I several HISTORICAL FACTS about Nero PROVING he was NOT the beast, but you still say he was cus your guru Gentry says he was. As I said, I have historical fact, while all a pret has is opinion and guesswork.

Rather than re-hash all the points again, I will just suggest that you pray and closely study Biblical prophecy. I mean REALLY study, without wearing your preconceived "Futurist" glasses that insist everything be interpreted literally and you can change the meaning of "time indicator" words and phrases. Poor interpretation of Scripture and wild speculation are what brought about the whole "Futurist" views of the"End Times".

 

[robycop3]

Rather than re-hash all the points again, I will just suggest that you pray and closely study Biblical prophecy. I mean REALLY study, without wearing your preconceived "Futurist" glasses that insist everything be interpreted literally and you can change the meaning of "time indicator" words and phrases. Poor interpretation of Scripture and wild speculation are what brought about the whole "Futurist" views of the"End Times".

i've studied history since I was a teen, saved in 1978 as you were. When I read the eschatological prophecies, someone told me they'd already been fulfilled, & I wondered why Jesus wasn't physically, visibly here. I focused my history studies on that time period, & found NO fulfillments of those prophecies past the great falling away. No AOD, no beast nor marka the beast, no worldwide great trib, no return of Jesus. Then when I heard of preterism, I knew it was false.

But this thread is about the AOD, and I saw what it's to be, & knew it hadn't been performed after Jesus was here.

 

[Cathode]

I suggest that one should not take such a "hard stand" that these events must be in our future that you overlook even considering the evidence that they were fulfilled in the past.

I'm open to that idea as long as you are just as open to the possibility that these events were fulfilled in the past. We will probably never know for sure this side of Heaven.

I can appreciate Gamaliel's argument. Our views will not change what has been nor what will be. Having said that, we should not shy away from making our case for our views. I do not begrudge my brothers for teaching what they believe is true, and I hope to receive the same courtesy. After all, this is not an issue where the wrong view will cost one's salvation.

Very good brother. You know, I believe these events were fulfilled in the past in prefigurement if you look at so many types throughout the ages. This is where people get caught up.

Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, Antiochus Epiphanes, Nero, Khan, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, believers are given these as examples of what to look for so believers can recognise the final Antichrist figure that embodies them all and beyond.

The last Antichrist will be a messianic figure that will capture the heart of billions, but will have an element of all the prefigurements. After he is destroyed, then the Sabbath rest .

 

[Lodic]

i've studied history since I was a teen, saved in 1978 as you were. When I read the eschatological prophecies, someone told me they'd already been fulfilled, & I wondered why Jesus wasn't physically, visibly here. I focused my history studies on that time period, & found NO fulfillments of those prophecies past the great falling away. No AOD, no beast nor marka the beast, no worldwide great trib, no return of Jesus. Then when I heard of preterism, I knew it was false.

But this thread is about the AOD, and I saw what it's to be, & knew it hadn't been performed after Jesus was here.

The idea that they had already been fulfilled had never occurred to me until around 15 years ago. However, I was willing to look into the claims of Preterism. If I had been as good a student of history as you are, I would have known about the Jewish Wars and the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 long ago. As it was, I only learned of this history as I studied the claims of Preterism. I was surprised to learn that the prophecies about the AOD, the Beast and the Great Tribulation were judgment on Israel. Furthermore, I learned that Jesus only "came" in the sense that He brought judgment on Israel. This is similar to how God "came" in judgment on nations in the Old Testament. After a lot of prayer and extensive study of prophecies, I realized the claims of Preterism are true.

The subject of this thread is the AOD, so I will make one more point. When talking to His disciples about these events, including the AOD, He made a reference to Daniel's prophecies. Jesus described how the one who studies Daniel will recognize the AOD. When we compare Daniel 11:31 with Luke 21:20, we see this literally fulfilled. Furthermore, when we compare Luke 21:20 with Matthew 24:15, we see this is about the same thing. When I compared Scripture with Scripture, it all became clear.

 

[Lodic]

Very good brother. You know, I believe these events were fulfilled in the past in prefigurement if you look at so many types throughout the ages. This is where people get caught up.

Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, Antiochus Epiphanes, Nero, Khan, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, believers are given these as examples of what to look for so believers can recognise the final Antichrist figure that embodies them all and beyond.

The last Antichrist will be a messianic figure that will capture the heart of billions, but will have an element of all the prefigurements. After he is destroyed, then the Sabbath rest .

I am glad we can disagree on this and remain civil. Scripture is inspired, but our interpretations of Scripture are not. I must admit that I do wonder when governments talk about putting a chip into the hands of their citizens so they can prove they have been vaccinated against COVID-19. I could not obey such a command, as it's too similar to the mark of the beast in Revelation.