The Abomination of Usury and Interest, and the Slavery of Debt

[christiang]

This study goes over why it is a sin to be in debt, to lend at interest, and to engage in various forms of usury that are common in American culture. The study can be found in English here The Abomination of Usury and Interest, and the Slavery of Debt | Wisdom of God or in Spanish here La Abominación del Usura y el Interés, y la Esclavitud de la Deuda | Sabiduria de Dios , let us begin a discussion on this matter here.

 

[annsni]

Let us discuss what is said here. Let's not direct someone to another site. Post your views here and there will be a discussion.

 

[Alcott]

Obviously few people could ever buy a house without putting themselves in debt. Do you think it's wrong to collect interest, as on a CD or simple savings account? The circumstance of prohibition against lending to "my people" at interest made a lot of Jews wealthy over the centuries. But today, is there any difference between institutions of lending as compared with individuals borrowing and lending?

 

[christiang]

Obviously few people could ever buy a house without putting themselves in debt. Do you think it's wrong to collect interest, as on a CD or simple savings account? The circumstance of prohibition against lending to "my people" at interest made a lot of Jews wealthy over the centuries. But today, is there any difference between institutions of lending as compared with individuals borrowing and lending?

It is all prohibited, and this is precisely why there is mention of a "mark of the beast" in the book of Revelation, because it relates to sins of money, which are common widespread practice in western nations, so much so, that it is very difficult to buy or sell without engaging in some form of interest or usury.

 

[christiang]

Let us discuss what is said here. Let's not direct someone to another site. Post your views here and there will be a discussion.

We are discussing here.

 

[annsni]

We are discussing here.

But we can't discuss what is not posted. Please post your view here on the site and then we can talk about it.

 

[Jason1]

Borrowing money is not sin (debt). What it is is a form of slavery however because you own another man.

Lending to your poor brother (fellow covenant memeber) at interest is a sin however. What this does is it places the poor person into a hole that is hard to get out of until debts are forgiven at the sabbatical year (during Israeli times). Scripture says you are to lend them for their "needs" and do so at no interest.

Exo_22:25 “If you do lend silver to any of My people, the poor among you, you are not to be like one that lends on interest to him. Do not lay interest on him.​

Lending at interest to a non-poor person or a business appears to be acceptable because they aren't using it for their "needs" but for their own ambitions and wants. Lending to a non-covenant member was also permitted.

Deu_15:6 “For יהוה your Elohim shall bless you as He promised you. And you shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. And you shall rule over many nations, but they do not rule over you.​

 

[TCassidy]

It is all prohibited,

So you are against Christians owning their own homes? How about cars? Education? Are you against all of it?

 

[InTheLight]

So you are against Christians owning their own homes? How about cars? Education? Are you against all of it?

I would add churches purchasing buildings, adding on to existing buildings, buying busses, etc. Is that wrong too?

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.

 

[Reynolds]

Obviously few people could ever buy a house without putting themselves in debt. Do you think it's wrong to collect interest, as on a CD or simple savings account? The circumstance of prohibition against lending to "my people" at interest made a lot of Jews wealthy over the centuries. But today, is there any difference between institutions of lending as compared with individuals borrowing and lending?

Institutions are people.

 

[TCassidy]

I would add churches purchasing buildings, adding on to existing buildings, buying busses, etc. Is that wrong too?

Oh oh. Don't get me going on the amount of money spent on such things. A simple pole barn will keep the rain out. The money spent on buildings and property is sinful! Sell it all and send the money to missions. Build a brush arbor.

Case in point. A man I knew 30 years ago was a career Marine officer. He received orders for Adak Alaska, an island in the Aleutians. The island was home to Adak Naval Air Station (now closed) and about 1500 sailors manning the station, and about the same number of native people.

His wife and three kids went with him and lived in government housing. But there was no church. There was a Chaplain but he was Roman Catholic.

On Sunday morning they all got up, got dressed in their Sunday clothes, but didn't have anywhere to go. The middle child, Charles (who was 6), grabbed his dad's bible, laid it in his dad's lap, and said, "Daddy, I guess you will have to do it." They sang a few kid's songs. He read a passage of scripture and made comments from their daily devotional booklet.

The next Sunday they were gathered again in the living room, but Charles was gone! They waited a few minutes and he showed up with 11 kids from the neighborhood in tow. The next week some of the kids brought their parents.

When his three year tour of duty was over there were 150 people meeting in the garage and sitting under the car port and listening through the garage windows. They all brought their own folding chairs.

When he got back to the US he resigned his commission (after 16 years) and has been pastoring ever since. When the church grows out of the simple pole barn where they meet they don't have a building program. They call for volunteers to go across town and become the core group of a new church plant. The last time I talked to him they had done that 9 times. 3 times in their own town and 6 times in neighboring towns. And not a fancy building to be found.

 

[christiang]

But we can't discuss what is not posted. Please post your view here on the site and then we can talk about it.

Alright, you got it

 

[christiang]

So you are against Christians owning their own homes? How about cars? Education? Are you against all of it?

This study is concerning borrowing, interest, and usury. No mention of homes, cars, and education.

 

[TCassidy]

No mention of homes, cars, and education.

How do you pay for a $260,000 house with an $80,000 per year salary without borrowing.

Aren't you aware that most people buy homes, cars, and education on credit?

 

[Alcott]

Institutions are people.

So are churches. But is one person a church to himself? Not biblically. It was people, like the church at Corinth, that excommunicated the man who "had his father's wife." Even so, can one person 'turn another over to Satan?"

 

[annsni]

I would add churches ..., adding on to existing buildings, buying busses, etc. Is that wrong too?

Actually, our church has done this and is heading into doing this again with cash. We had busses and got rid of them because the repairs are more than just renting busses when we need them but they were bought with cash and we donated them to another church that requested them. But we have done 2 expansions on the building with no debt and plan to renovate our sanctuary and update many of our systems (heat, AC, sprinklers, alarms, etc.) with only cash. Our plan was to get started in August but we realized we won't have the money by then so the plan is now January. We currently have about 1/3 in the bank and have pledges for more (we will know this week what the pledges are). Our practice at our church is that if we don't have the cash to do something, we don't do it. I'm sure they mortgaged the church initially but we've been in the current location for many years and the mortgage is long paid off.

 

[christiang]

How do you pay for a $260,000 house with an $80,000 per year salary without borrowing.

Aren't you aware that most people buy homes, cars, and education on credit?

Its because this nation has made it very difficult to buy or sell without having to engage in the sins of borrowing/interest/usury. Welcome to the nation spoken of as "the second beast of Revelation" and the "mark of the beast", which relates to these particular sins of money.

 

[TCassidy]

Its because this nation has made it very difficult to buy or sell without having to engage in the sins of borrowing/interest/usury. Welcome to the nation spoken of as "the second beast of Revelation" and the "mark of the beast", which relates to these particular sins of money.

So, again, you dodged the question. You don't believe Christians should own their own homes, buy cars, or get a good education?

 

[christiang]

So, again, you dodged the question. You don't believe Christians should own their own homes, buy cars, or get a good education?

I haven't dodged the question, I am telling that possessions purchased in an unrighteous manner is wicked. Owning a fork is not evil, but if you stole it to have it, then it is evil. The same with possessions, if possessions are acquired by borrowing, and engaging in usury and interest, then it is evil.

 

[TCassidy]

The same with possessions, if possessions are acquired by borrowing, and engaging in usury and interest, then it is evil.

So every Christian who pays his mortgage faithfully to give his wife and children a home to live and grow in is, according to you, evil?