The AOG and speaking in tongues

[Torch Lighter]

I don't think just gathering in a sanctuary for a service empowers anyone to speak in a "tongue". WE are at the HOLY SPIRIT'S beck-n-call, not vice versa. He manifests Himself in a given individual at HIS choosing, not ours.

I was taken to a "Holiness" service one time. After passing the collection plate & singing a coupla songs, the preacher made like "Bro. Love's Travelling Salvation Show", starting out softly, getting louder & louder til he was finally screeching unintelligibly, & most of the congregation was babbling gibberish, with many laying on the floor, cutting dust angels. I asked myself, "How can THIS be HONORING GOD?" If I hadn't known better, I woulda thought I'd walked into a funny farm at medication time.

I had to wait for the people who brought me to chill out, as it was many miles from my home. They were exhausted & soaked with sweat & I ended up driving them to my home. They asked me how I liked the service, & I simply said, "I DIDN'T! I didn't hear JESUS' name said once, nor any altar call for the unsaved. As we're friends, that's all I'm gonna say."

Needless to say, I've never attended one of those "churches" again!

It's the gibberish that makes my skin crawl. It sounds like its being made up as they go.

I've been to Assembly of God churches where tongues are rarely heard, but there is no meat of the Word to be had. Everything is pre-arranged way in advance of the service.

I have also attended a conference where being slain in the spirit was in full mode. Just a palm to the forehead and back they go.

 

[robycop3]

It's the gibberish that makes my skin crawl. It sounds like its being made up as they go.

I've been to Assembly of God churches where tongues are rarely heard, but there is no meat of the Word to be had. Everything is pre-arranged way in advance of the service.

I have also attended a conference where being slain in the spirit was in full mode. Just a palm to the forehead and back they go.

While not all AOG congregations are full of that baloney, many are, as well as some "churches" of other denoms. I believe all those "tongue-ceremony" churches are phony.

 

[The Biblicist]

What Charismatics/Pentecostals are doing today are what cults have done long before the New Testament was written and what cults continue to this day doing speaking in ECSTATIC UTTERANCES not Biblical tongues.

 

[Yeshua1]

It's the gibberish that makes my skin crawl. It sounds like its being made up as they go.

I've been to Assembly of God churches where tongues are rarely heard, but there is no meat of the Word to be had. Everything is pre-arranged way in advance of the service.

I have also attended a conference where being slain in the spirit was in full mode. Just a palm to the forehead and back they go.

A lot of that depends upon the Pastor and His training, as my AOG pastor was Seminary trained, and had one time an Independent Baptist elder visit the church, and he said sounded just like a Baptist!

 

[Yeshua1]

I tend to separate Charismatics up between those such as in the AOG, who while hold to dubious views regarding the person and Working of the Holy Spirit today, are not into the outright heresies of word of faith and prosperity Gospel churches!

 

[Gup20]

What Charismatics/Pentecostals are doing today are what cults have done long before the New Testament was written and what cults continue to this day doing speaking in ECSTATIC UTTERANCES not Biblical tongues.

I agree. Actual tongues is when a person who speaks that language can actually understand what you are saying.

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree. Actual tongues is when a person who speaks that language can actually understand what you are saying.

Almost non of what passes as tongue today are that though, more like a combo of gibberish and "heavenly language"

 

[JonC]

A lot of that depends upon the Pastor and His training, as my AOG pastor was Seminary trained, and had one time an Independent Baptist elder visit the church, and he said sounded just like a Baptist!

Many characterise such groups based on the extreme. I think for balance we can remenber Gordon Fee is an AOG minister. Also, perhaps, that John Piper rejects the idea that the "gift of tongues" have ceased.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

What Charismatics/Pentecostals are doing today are what cults have done long before the New Testament was written and what cults continue to this day doing speaking in ECSTATIC UTTERANCES not Biblical tongues.

Can you estimate how long before the New Testament was written and share the source for this information?

 

[The Biblicist]

Can you estimate how long before the New Testament was written and share the source for this information?

The Mystery religions in Paul's day regularly spoke in escatic utterances. I can find references and provide them but it will take me some time as I did my research in this over 30 years ago.

 

[The Biblicist]

Many characterise such groups based on the extreme. I think for balance we can remenber Gordon Fee is an AOG minister. Also, perhaps, that John Piper rejects the idea that the "gift of tongues" have ceased.

Not to pick a fight, but I have read Gordon Fee and John Piper and Wayne Gruden and they have no clue about the purpose and scope of Biblical tongues. Their interpretations are flawed. Gruden's view of the office of New Testament prophet is flawed. They all mistake ecstatic utterances for Biblical tongues. Ecstatic utterances were common place before, during and after New Testament times and prominent today even among Mormons (12 apostles).

 

[Wesley Briggman]

The Mystery religions in Paul's day regularly spoke in escatic utterances. I can find references and provide them but it will take me some time as I did my research in this over 30 years ago.

I appreciate your reply. No further research needed to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[Yeshua1]

Not to pick a fight, but I have read Gordon Fee and John Piper and Wayne Gruden and they have no clue about the purpose and scope of Biblical tongues. Their interpretations are flawed. Gruden's view of the office of New Testament prophet is flawed. They all mistake ecstatic utterances for Biblical tongues. Ecstatic utterances were common place before, during and after New Testament times and prominent today even among Mormons (12 apostles).

Dr Grudem wrote a respected ST, but his views in regards in the gifts and workings of the Holy Spirit are suspect. but Dr Fee, despite being Charismatic, is a respected NT scholar!

 

[HankD]

Since prophecies and knowledge are still around, we can safely assume so too are tongues.

That doesn't necessarily follow from the text Gup.

 

[HeDied4U]

Well, this has certainly been a spirited (no pun intended) discussion so far. I appreciate all of the comments.

 

[Gup20]

That doesn't necessarily follow from the text Gup.

Sure, that was my point. It doesn't follow that tongues HAVE ceased because it says tongues MAY cease. My point was to compare it to the other things which we assume haven't ceased to draw attention to the misuse of that scripture to support the notion that tongues HAVE ceased.

The bottom line for me is that the Bible explicitly says to never forbid speaking in tongues. Many churches do forbid it - does yours? Do your members personally forbid it? If so, they are in violation of scripture. That being said, the Bible is also explicit as to the purpose, use, and orderly expression of tongues in the assembly of believers. I would say that the majority of churches who do participate heavily in tongues do so in an inappropriate, disorderly, and unpurposeful manner - also a violation of Paul's instructions.

My point is that the modern church wouldn't find tongues "distasteful" or "inappropriate" or feel like it should or had ceased if they were clear in teaching their members the proper use of them from Paul's instruction in 1Co 14:13-33.

The thing that bristles believers is when other believers treat it as a hyper-spiritual chanting or some kind of mystical juju spell. We wouldn't bristle at real tongues... we'd praise God for the miracle... we bristle at those who do it inappropriately or incorrectly and in so doing mock God and ignore His plans and purposes.

Colossians 1:26
that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been revealed to His saints,
27 to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Colossians 2:2
that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God’s mystery, that is, Christ Himself,
3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4 I say this so that no one will delude you with persuasive argument.​

There shouldn't be any "mysteries." As it pertains to Salvation anyway, these mysteries have all been revealed. The problem with theology is theologians -- often in a search to understand we add much to scripture and obfuscate truth behind systems of theology and practice. When it comes to tongues there is too much of worldly "spirituality" intermixed in the thought and practice and not enough of the firm, Biblical truth being taught.

 

[NoWelch'sPlease]

This is more of a rant / vent session than of anything else, so please bear with me.....

I recently spent almost eight weeks in either the hospital (1.5 weeks) or a nursing home (six weeks) rehabbing a foot that had to have surgery due to a MRSA infection, and undergoing a six week "intensive" antibiotic regimen to fight the MRSA virus. While laid up for all that time, I couldn't make it to my church in person, so I would watch the Sunday morning services online. Not the best way to "do church," but it was better than nothing.

One early Sunday morning, I was talking with a friend about watching church services online, and he said his church also streams their service (thru Facebook), and invited me to "tune in," so to speak. My friend attends an Assemblies of God church, and although I'm not a big fan of the AOG or its doctrines, I told him I would take a look at the service. My church's early service starts at 9:00am (later service is at 11:00am) and is usually over by 10:20am or so. My friend's church has only one service, which starts at 10:30am, so the timing worked out okay to where I could watch his service right from the beginning.

It started out okay, I guess. They started with a few lively and upbeat worship songs, and then someone got up and made some announcements. After that, it was time to do the "meet-n-greet" (as I call it) and to collect the tithes and offerings. Upon completion of that, the pastor got up and asked if anyone had a "word from the Lord?" Although all of the "live mics" seemed to be up front, you could hear someone in the congregation speaking in "tongues." When she finished, there was about a 30 second pause and then you could hear someone else giving the interpretation. While I know that takes place in charismatic churches, it still bugged me for some reason...and I guess it still does, thus this post.

While I understand the need for "tongues and interpretations" during the time of the Apostles, I ascribe to the doctrine that tongues have since ceased. To my way of thinking, which I'll admit could be wrong, this whole notion of modern tongues and interpretation is highly inefficient. If God truly wanted to give a "word" thru someone, couldn't that "word" be given in plain old English (or whatever language is used in a particular church) instead of the "two-step" process of tongues first and then the interpretation? Seems like that would make more sense.

Anyway, after that, another song was sung and then the pastor got up and preached his sermon, which lasted about 40 minutes. There was a lot of emotion but, in my opinion, very little substance, to his message. When he was done, one final song was sung and then the closing prayer was prayed. In all, the service lasted close to two hours.

Later that afternoon, my friend called and asked if I watched the service, and I told him I did. When asked what I thought of it, I told him that I didn't agree with much of what I heard and saw, and "no offense intended, but I probably wouldn't attend your church in person, as I disagree with much of its doctrine." I asked him about the need for tongues and an interpretation if God truly wanted to give a word, and he just kind of hem-hawed around and never really did give an answer. I know I may be taking this verse slightly out of context, but so much for being "ready in season and out of season" (2 Timothy 4:2).

Anyway, like I said earlier, this still bugs me, even after a few weeks, so I'd thought I'd toss this out here to hear your thoughts on the matter, if you care to share them, that is.

Thanks for indulging my long winded rant. I appreciate it.

As someone who grew up going to that kind of church, I know what you mean. It doesn't seem normal or beneficial in any way to any one except the person who is speaking in tongues. It's like, "look at me and how I have this gift and you don't."

If you have to learn how to do it, you don't have it.

I guess I could see it if someone is a missionary in an area where no one understands any language you speak, and God really wants these people to hear the Gospel, then yes, but otherwise, it is nonsense.