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Featured The Atonement of Christ: What did it REALLY Achieve ?5

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Brightfame52, Mar 21, 2022.

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  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Them who Christ died for, their sins are forgiven.
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    It was never universalism. The "you" included lost Judas in Luke 22:20-21.
     
  3. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Only if Christ died for him, nobody is lost who Jesus died for !
     
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Answer this: How does not yet saved persons come to know Christ had paid for their sins?
    What Holy Scripture?
     
  5. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Those whom Christ died for shall sooner or later believe and live by Faith. Rom 1:17

    17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

    The Just here are the ones Christ died for and made them righteous/just Rom 5:19

    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    The word just in Rom 1: Vs 17 is the same word righteous in Rom 5 :19
     
  6. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    BF the way you do your study reminds me of the WOF preachers. They, as you, grab a verse here a few words there and strings them together to use as proof of their and your errant views. The bible was not meant to be used that way and here you are once again showing how you twist and abuse scripture.
     
  7. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    BF how is it that you ignore those key words ALL & MANY?

    judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation
    the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life

    by one man's disobedience many were made sinners
    by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous

    Salvation is available to all through Christ Jesus. The question is, why do you disagree with scripture and restrict it to a select few?
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Does not answer what I had asked.
     
  9. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe that the scripture teaches that there is a application of the blood of Christ that causes service to the Living God ?
     
  10. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The all in Rom 5:18 are the same many in Rom 5:19, so does the obedience of one in Rom 5:19 make many righteous ? Yes or no
     
  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Then I have no other reply for you.
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    In other words you cannot tell any of the not yet believers that Christ paid for their sins leaving no one any reason to believe.
     
  13. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    The blood of Christ does not cause service. That is just your deterministic view coming through when you read the bible.
     
  14. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Did you have a problem reading the scripture that I posted? Yes or No.
     
  15. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I know this question was not directed at me, and I thought that @Brightfame52 answered it quite well, but the sinner's warrant to come to Christ is that he is a sinner and Christ died for such.
    For example, Romans 5:1-11, especially v.8.. 'But God demonstrates His own love towards us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,' If one believes that, and the surrounding verses, then one should have perfect assurance.. But of course, 'The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him,' so unless God opens the heart of the sinner to believe the Scripture, he will not believe.
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Without an understanding that Christ paid for ones sins there is no reason to believe in Christ. A general redemption has to be understood from Scripture.
     
  17. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Are we to understand from your comments that God was actually being disingenuous when He said preach the gospel to all creatures Mark 16:15 and that He really does not desire all to come to repentance and be saved? 1 Timothy 2:3-4

    Note the wording of 1 Corinthians 2:14. It say “the natural man does not receive G1209 the things of the Spirit of God” it does not say that he can not know of them. Many people will hear the gospel message but will reject it for reasons only they know.

    G1209 of the thing offered in speaking, teaching, instructing; to receive favorably, give ear to, embrace, make one's own, approve, not to reject
    Thayer's Unabridged Greek - english Lexicon of the New Testament

    To say that the sinner does not naturally receive the things of the Spirit of God is not to say that he cannot. Apart from divine enlightenment John 1:9, conviction John 16:8, and drawing John 12:32, no sinner would respond to the Gospel, but this enlightenment, conviction, and drawing is extended to every sinner Mark 16:15, 1 Timothy 2:3-4.


    The verse you have used, 1 Corinthians 2:14, for support of your view does not in fact do that but rather shows that man has the ability to make real choices.
     
    #117 Silverhair, Sep 13, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2022
  18. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Yes the blood of Christ caused Spiritual service Heb 9:14

    14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    According to this scripture, how did they come to serve the living God ?
     
  19. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    No did you have a problem reading and understanding my response ?
     
  20. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Through faith. Ephesians 1:13, Romans 10:9-10

    The shed blood avails nothing to the sinner if it is not applied to one through faith. His shed blood covered the sins of humanity but does not save anyone.
     
    #120 Silverhair, Sep 13, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2022
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