The Atonement of Christ: What did it REALLY Achieve ?5

[Brightfame52]

In Luke 22:20 what as rendered "many" is rendered as a plural "you." What Jesus had actually said, means "many" and "vou." Didactic teaching of the word of God is there too.

Them who Christ died for, their sins are forgiven.

 

[37818]

Them who Christ died for, their sins are forgiven.

It was never universalism. The "you" included lost Judas in Luke 22:20-21.

 

[Brightfame52]

It was never universalism. The "you" included lost Judas in Luke 22:20-21.

Only if Christ died for him, nobody is lost who Jesus died for !

 

[37818]

Only if Christ died for him, nobody is lost who Jesus died for !

Answer this: How does not yet saved persons come to know Christ had paid for their sins?
What Holy Scripture?

 

[Brightfame52]

Answer this: How does not yet saved persons come to know Christ had paid for their sins?
What Holy Scripture?

Those whom Christ died for shall sooner or later believe and live by Faith. Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The Just here are the ones Christ died for and made them righteous/just Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word just in Rom 1: Vs 17 is the same word righteous in Rom 5 :19

 

[Silverhair]

Lest it all be in vain ! 2

Its impossible to be among the Many here Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

And it not result in the application here Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

If any for whom Christ shed His Blood for Mk 14:24

And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

If anyone of them in time, does not begin to Live by Faith, or as Heb 9:14 says " to serve the living God"

Because of it [The Shed blood for them] then the blood of Christ has failed its purpose of God . You see, every one it was shed for should become one of these Rev 1:5-6

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Yes, that's there serving the Living God as promised by Heb 9:14 as the effects of the shedding of His Blood for them !

Again if it does not occur for any one of the Many, non performance has occurred for something due and required.

For His Blood is the Blood of sprinkling, meaning it would be shed in vain if not applied to those He shed it for, for it is written, He shall sprinkle many nations !

BF the way you do your study reminds me of the WOF preachers. They, as you, grab a verse here a few words there and strings them together to use as proof of their and your errant views. The bible was not meant to be used that way and here you are once again showing how you twist and abuse scripture.

 

[Silverhair]

Those whom Christ died for shall sooner or later believe and live by Faith. Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The Just here are the ones Christ died for and made them righteous/just Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word just in Rom 1: Vs 17 is the same word righteous in Rom 5 :19

BF how is it that you ignore those key words ALL & MANY?

judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation
the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life

by one man's disobedience many were made sinners
by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous

Salvation is available to all through Christ Jesus. The question is, why do you disagree with scripture and restrict it to a select few?

 

[37818]

Those whom Christ died for shall sooner or later believe and live by Faith. Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The Just here are the ones Christ died for and made them righteous/just Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word just in Rom 1: Vs 17 is the same word righteous in Rom 5 :19

Does not answer what I had asked.

Answer this: How does not yet saved persons come to know Christ had paid for their sins?
What Holy Scripture?

 

[Brightfame52]

BF the way you do your study reminds me of the WOF preachers. They, as you, grab a verse here a few words there and strings them together to use as proof of their and your errant views. The bible was not meant to be used that way and here you are once again showing how you twist and abuse scripture.

Do you believe that the scripture teaches that there is a application of the blood of Christ that causes service to the Living God ?

 

[Brightfame52]

BF how is it that you ignore those key words ALL & MANY?

judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation
the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life

by one man's disobedience many were made sinners
by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous

Salvation is available to all through Christ Jesus. The question is, why do you disagree with scripture and restrict it to a select few?

The all in Rom 5:18 are the same many in Rom 5:19, so does the obedience of one in Rom 5:19 make many righteous ? Yes or no

 

[Brightfame52]

Does not answer what I had asked.

Then I have no other reply for you.

 

[37818]

Then I have no other reply for you.

In other words you cannot tell any of the not yet believers that Christ paid for their sins leaving no one any reason to believe.

 

[Silverhair]

Do you believe that the scripture teaches that there is a application of the blood of Christ that causes service to the Living God ?

The blood of Christ does not cause service. That is just your deterministic view coming through when you read the bible.

 

[Silverhair]

The all in Rom 5:18 are the same many in Rom 5:19, so does the obedience of one in Rom 5:19 make many righteous ? Yes or no

Did you have a problem reading the scripture that I posted? Yes or No.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Answer this: How do not yet saved persons come to know Christ had paid for their sins?
What Holy Scripture?

I know this question was not directed at me, and I thought that @Brightfame52 answered it quite well, but the sinner's warrant to come to Christ is that he is a sinner and Christ died for such.
For example, Romans 5:1-11, especially v.8.. 'But God demonstrates His own love towards us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,' If one believes that, and the surrounding verses, then one should have perfect assurance.. But of course, 'The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him,' so unless God opens the heart of the sinner to believe the Scripture, he will not believe.

 

[37818]

I know this question was not directed at me, and I thought that @Brightfame52 answered it quite well, but the sinner's warrant to come to Christ is that he is a sinner and Christ died for such.
For example, Romans 5:1-11, especially v.8.. 'But God demonstrates His own love towards us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,' If one believes that, and the surrounding verses, then one should have perfect assurance.. But of course, 'The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him,' so unless God opens the heart of the sinner to believe the Scripture, he will not believe.

Without an understanding that Christ paid for ones sins there is no reason to believe in Christ. A general redemption has to be understood from Scripture.

 

[Silverhair]

I know this question was not directed at me, and I thought that @Brightfame52 answered it quite well, but the sinner's warrant to come to Christ is that he is a sinner and Christ died for such.
For example, Romans 5:1-11, especially v.8.. 'But God demonstrates His own love towards us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,' If one believes that, and the surrounding verses, then one should have perfect assurance.. But of course, 'The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him,' so unless God opens the heart of the sinner to believe the Scripture, he will not believe.

Are we to understand from your comments that God was actually being disingenuous when He said preach the gospel to all creatures Mark 16:15 and that He really does not desire all to come to repentance and be saved? 1 Timothy 2:3-4

Note the wording of 1 Corinthians 2:14. It say “the natural man does not receive G1209 the things of the Spirit of God” it does not say that he can not know of them. Many people will hear the gospel message but will reject it for reasons only they know.

G1209 of the thing offered in speaking, teaching, instructing; to receive favorably, give ear to, embrace, make one's own, approve, not to reject
Thayer's Unabridged Greek - english Lexicon of the New Testament

To say that the sinner does not naturally receive the things of the Spirit of God is not to say that he cannot. Apart from divine enlightenment John 1:9, conviction John 16:8, and drawing John 12:32, no sinner would respond to the Gospel, but this enlightenment, conviction, and drawing is extended to every sinner Mark 16:15, 1 Timothy 2:3-4.

The verse you have used, 1 Corinthians 2:14, for support of your view does not in fact do that but rather shows that man has the ability to make real choices.

 

[Brightfame52]

The blood of Christ does not cause service. That is just your deterministic view coming through when you read the bible.

Yes the blood of Christ caused Spiritual service Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

According to this scripture, how did they come to serve the living God ?

 

[Brightfame52]

Did you have a problem reading the scripture that I posted? Yes or No.

No did you have a problem reading and understanding my response ?

 

[Silverhair]

Yes the blood of Christ caused Spiritual service Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

According to this scripture, how did they come to serve the living God ?

Through faith. Ephesians 1:13, Romans 10:9-10

The shed blood avails nothing to the sinner if it is not applied to one through faith. His shed blood covered the sins of humanity but does not save anyone.