Wittenberger
New Member
Where in the Bible does God say that baptism is OUR promise?
Where in the Bible does God say that baptism is our pledge?
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The Baptism debate
- Thread starter The Biblicist
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Where in the Bible does God say that baptism is OUR promise?
Where in the Bible does God say that baptism is our pledge?
Wittenberger
New Member
Wrong again. See my reply to WM.
I don't see anywhere where you have given scriptural proof that God or anyone else states that baptism is "OUR public profession of fatih".
This is a Baptist assumption. Prove me wrong.
I never said baptism is a public profession of faith. Of course, it can be, if done in public. However, a person can be baptized with just themselves and the baptizer in a private place.
Water baptism is a promise, a pledge to God.
Infants cannot make a promise to God.[/QUOTE
Where in the Bible does God say that baptism is OUR promise; OUR pledge to God?]
See 1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
I agree with you. It isn't.I don't see anywhere where you have given scriptural proof that God or anyone else states that baptism is "OUR public profession of fatih".
This is a Baptist assumption. Prove me wrong.
See my answer here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1882157&postcount=77
Wittenberger
New Member
See 1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Very good point. I stand corrected. You are right.
Baptism is a pledge. That is why the early church called it a "sacramentum" which in Latin means "a sacred oath".
I think it means even more than just a pledge, but your are correct, it is a pledge based on the Scripture you quoted above.
Wittenberger
New Member
God must have been laughing up his sleeve," muses Jobst Schöne. The retired bishop of the Independent Lutheran Church in Germany is applying a German paraphrase of Psalm 2:4 to the baptism of seven former Muslims from Iran. Early Easter morning, the seven were baptized in the Berlin parish where Schöne serves as associate pastor. The baptisms were an emblem of something bigger—a nationwide surge of such conversions in several denominations and a spate of reports of Muslims seeing Jesus in their dreams. But Martin Luther's Bible translation, now nearly 500 years old, also played an important role in their story.
The group baptism happened at an unsettling time for European Christians. During Lent, radical Muslims handed out large numbers of Qur'ans on street corners and announced plans to distribute 25 million German-language copies of their holy book in order to win Germans to their faith. But on the night before Easter, some 150 worshipers filed silently into St. Mary's Church in the Zehlendorf district of Berlin to witness conversions in the opposite direction.
Until midnight, the sanctuary was dark. Then Gottfried Martens, senior pastor, chanted from the altar: "Glory to God in the highest." All at once the lights went on, the organ roared, and the faithful broke jubilantly into song: "We praise you, we bless you, we worship you." Like Christians everywhere, they celebrated the Resurrection of their Lord.
For the six young men and one woman in the front pew, the moment had additional significance: They were placing their lives in danger in exchange for salvation. Under Islamic law, apostasy is a capital crime, a fact brought home to the German public by press reports about Iranian pastor Youcef Nadarkhani, an ex-Muslim, who was sentenced to death in Tehran. Some of the converts at St. Mary's were themselves persecuted before fleeing to Germany, now home to the largest Iranian community in Western Europe, numbering 150,000.
"These refugees are taking unimaginable risks to live their Christian faith," says Martens, who ministers to one of Germany's most dynamic parishes, which has grown from 200 to over 900 members in 20 years. He views the conversion of a growing number of Iranians in Germany as evidence of God's sense of irony. "Imagine! Of all places, God chooses eastern Germany, one of the world's most godless regions, as the stage for a spiritual awakening among Persians," Martens exclaims. According to a recent University of Chicago study, only 13 percent of all residents of the formerly Communist part of Germany attest belief in God.
The Vision Thing
The Berlin baptism is a small piece in a mosaic of faith covering all of Germany, crossing denominational barriers and extending into Iran itself. Some German clerics speak of a divinely scripted drama that includes countless reports of Muslims having visions of Jesus. According to Martens and others interviewed for this article, most of these appearances follow a pattern reported by converts throughout the Islamic world: Muslims see a figure of light, sometimes bearing the features of Christ, sometimes not. But they instantly know who he is. He always makes it clear that he is Jesus of the Bible, not Isa of the Qur'an, and he directs them to specific pastors, priests, congregations, or house churches, where they later hear the gospel.
Thomas Schirrmacher, chair of the Theological Commission of the World Evangelical Alliance, comments on this pattern: "God sticks to the Reformation doctrine that faith comes by receiving the Word through Scripture and preaching. In these dreams, Jesus never engages in hocus-pocus, but sends these people to where the Word is faithfully proclaimed." This is why Martens says he cannot dismiss such narratives: "As a confessional Lutheran, I am not given to Schwärmerei," he says, using Luther's derogatory term for religious enthusiasm. "But these reports of visions sound very convincing."
The group baptism happened at an unsettling time for European Christians. During Lent, radical Muslims handed out large numbers of Qur'ans on street corners and announced plans to distribute 25 million German-language copies of their holy book in order to win Germans to their faith. But on the night before Easter, some 150 worshipers filed silently into St. Mary's Church in the Zehlendorf district of Berlin to witness conversions in the opposite direction.
Until midnight, the sanctuary was dark. Then Gottfried Martens, senior pastor, chanted from the altar: "Glory to God in the highest." All at once the lights went on, the organ roared, and the faithful broke jubilantly into song: "We praise you, we bless you, we worship you." Like Christians everywhere, they celebrated the Resurrection of their Lord.
For the six young men and one woman in the front pew, the moment had additional significance: They were placing their lives in danger in exchange for salvation. Under Islamic law, apostasy is a capital crime, a fact brought home to the German public by press reports about Iranian pastor Youcef Nadarkhani, an ex-Muslim, who was sentenced to death in Tehran. Some of the converts at St. Mary's were themselves persecuted before fleeing to Germany, now home to the largest Iranian community in Western Europe, numbering 150,000.
"These refugees are taking unimaginable risks to live their Christian faith," says Martens, who ministers to one of Germany's most dynamic parishes, which has grown from 200 to over 900 members in 20 years. He views the conversion of a growing number of Iranians in Germany as evidence of God's sense of irony. "Imagine! Of all places, God chooses eastern Germany, one of the world's most godless regions, as the stage for a spiritual awakening among Persians," Martens exclaims. According to a recent University of Chicago study, only 13 percent of all residents of the formerly Communist part of Germany attest belief in God.
The Vision Thing
The Berlin baptism is a small piece in a mosaic of faith covering all of Germany, crossing denominational barriers and extending into Iran itself. Some German clerics speak of a divinely scripted drama that includes countless reports of Muslims having visions of Jesus. According to Martens and others interviewed for this article, most of these appearances follow a pattern reported by converts throughout the Islamic world: Muslims see a figure of light, sometimes bearing the features of Christ, sometimes not. But they instantly know who he is. He always makes it clear that he is Jesus of the Bible, not Isa of the Qur'an, and he directs them to specific pastors, priests, congregations, or house churches, where they later hear the gospel.
Thomas Schirrmacher, chair of the Theological Commission of the World Evangelical Alliance, comments on this pattern: "God sticks to the Reformation doctrine that faith comes by receiving the Word through Scripture and preaching. In these dreams, Jesus never engages in hocus-pocus, but sends these people to where the Word is faithfully proclaimed." This is why Martens says he cannot dismiss such narratives: "As a confessional Lutheran, I am not given to Schwärmerei," he says, using Luther's derogatory term for religious enthusiasm. "But these reports of visions sound very convincing."
Wittenberger
New Member
Texts on Baptism
The idea of Holy Baptism runs throughout the Bible. Where in the Old Testament there are numerous allusions (e.g., Creation narrative; Noah’s flood; the Israelites under Moses passing through the Red Sea; the next generation passing through the Jordan River; Naaman’s baptism; etc.), the New Testament become explicit that this is the divine means of applying the saving accomplishment of Jesus Christ. What were types in the Old become antitypes in the New because Jesus brings fulfillment to the covenant promises of God, where even the types and shadows of the Old Testament are promissory.
The following texts on Holy Baptism are presented under certain headings that respect the Bible’s instructions that we see Old Testament types fulfilled in Christ. It is important to remember that the covenant with Israel applies until the New Covenant is established in His blood and verified through the resurrection of the Son of God.
John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance which Jesus underwent for us. Though Jesus had no sin yet he underwent a ritual of repentance for us. The importance of this fact bears on our salvation. Even the condition of repentance is provided for us by Jesus himself. A spirit of repentance, then, is the gift of God, not a work that warrants the reward of salvation. Jesus saves us with a perfect repentance.
Mark 1.4 “John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
Luke 3.2-3 “the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. 3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
Mt 3.13-15 “Then came Jesus from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John would have hindered him, saying, I have need to be baptized by you, and yet you are coming to me? 15 But Jesus answering said to him, Suffer it now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffereth him.”
John’s Old Testament custom of baptism was taken and transformed by Jesus to communicate to us His repentance on our behalf, as well as our adoption as sons into the family of God. John’s baptism and the baptism Jesus instituted are two completely different rites: the former was an Old Testament type, the latter a New Covenant antitype or reality. This means that the baptism that Jesus instituted is not primarily a baptism of repentance but rather a means by which He communicates the grace of God.
Consider:
Acts 18.25-26 “This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spoke and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. 26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.”
Acts19.3 “And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
Mt 28.19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.”
The idea of Holy Baptism runs throughout the Bible. Where in the Old Testament there are numerous allusions (e.g., Creation narrative; Noah’s flood; the Israelites under Moses passing through the Red Sea; the next generation passing through the Jordan River; Naaman’s baptism; etc.), the New Testament become explicit that this is the divine means of applying the saving accomplishment of Jesus Christ. What were types in the Old become antitypes in the New because Jesus brings fulfillment to the covenant promises of God, where even the types and shadows of the Old Testament are promissory.
The following texts on Holy Baptism are presented under certain headings that respect the Bible’s instructions that we see Old Testament types fulfilled in Christ. It is important to remember that the covenant with Israel applies until the New Covenant is established in His blood and verified through the resurrection of the Son of God.
John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance which Jesus underwent for us. Though Jesus had no sin yet he underwent a ritual of repentance for us. The importance of this fact bears on our salvation. Even the condition of repentance is provided for us by Jesus himself. A spirit of repentance, then, is the gift of God, not a work that warrants the reward of salvation. Jesus saves us with a perfect repentance.
Mark 1.4 “John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
Luke 3.2-3 “the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. 3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
Mt 3.13-15 “Then came Jesus from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John would have hindered him, saying, I have need to be baptized by you, and yet you are coming to me? 15 But Jesus answering said to him, Suffer it now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffereth him.”
John’s Old Testament custom of baptism was taken and transformed by Jesus to communicate to us His repentance on our behalf, as well as our adoption as sons into the family of God. John’s baptism and the baptism Jesus instituted are two completely different rites: the former was an Old Testament type, the latter a New Covenant antitype or reality. This means that the baptism that Jesus instituted is not primarily a baptism of repentance but rather a means by which He communicates the grace of God.
Consider:
Acts 18.25-26 “This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spoke and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. 26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.”
Acts19.3 “And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
Mt 28.19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.”
John’s Old Testament custom of baptism was taken and transformed by Jesus to communicate to us His repentance on our behalf, as well as our adoption as sons into the family of God. John’s baptism and the baptism Jesus instituted are two completely different rites: the former was an Old Testament type, the latter a New Covenant antitype or reality. This means that the baptism that Jesus instituted is not primarily a baptism of repentance but rather a means by which He communicates the grace of God.
Consider:
Acts 18.25-26 “This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spoke and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. 26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.”
Acts19.3 “And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
Mt 28.19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.”
Christians are to be water baptized, even after having received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:47 Then Peter said, “Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
A person can receive the Holy Spirit before, during, or after water baptism.
Again, you take Scripture out of context. The book of Acts, not only a historical book, but a book of transition for the church--things were changing.Christians are to be water baptized, even after having received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:47 Then Peter said, “Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
A person can receive the Holy Spirit before, during, or after water baptism.
At Pentecost the Holy Spirit came. Now all who receive Christ receive the Holy Spirit at the time of salvation. The first step of obedience for the Christian is to be baptized. The believer already has the Holy Spirit. He receives it as soon as he is saved.
Wittenberger
New Member
Christians are to be water baptized, even after having received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:47 Then Peter said, “Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
A person can receive the Holy Spirit before, during, or after water baptism.
Lutherans would agree with you on the "before" and "during", absolutely, and if the baptism was non-trinitarian, then yes, even after baptism (though it was not a "real baptism).
Again, you take Scripture out of context. The book of Acts, not only a historical book, but a book of transition for the church--things were changing.
At Pentecost the Holy Spirit came. Now all who receive Christ receive the Holy Spirit at the time of salvation. The first step of obedience for the Christian is to be baptized. The believer already has the Holy Spirit. He receives it as soon as he is saved.
I am speaking of water baptism. Acts 2:38 show that people could repent and be baptized, and then receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Please read Acts 8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."
In the above scripture (Acts 8:15), we learn they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. In Luke 11:13 we see that the Father gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to those who ask. Luke 11:13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
Lutherans would agree with you on the "before" and "during", absolutely, and if the baptism was non-trinitarian, then yes, even after baptism (though it was not a "real baptism).
I am not sure I know what you mean by the baptism being non-trinitarian.
Please read the scriptures Acts 8:14-17. The people were baptized, but they did not yet receive the Holy Spirit.
Please read Acts 8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."
In the above scripture (Acts 8:15), we learn they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. In Luke 11:13 we see that the Father gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to those who ask. Luke 11:13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
Acts 2:38 show that people could repent and be baptized, and then receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Lutherans would agree with you on the "before" and "during", absolutely, and if the baptism was non-trinitarian, then yes, even after baptism (though it was not a "real baptism).
again, the bible expressly teaches that one receives the Spirit right at the moment of faith placed into yeshua to betheir saviour/messiah!
ALL genuine christians have the Holy Spirit, some may/may not been baptized in water!
I am not sure I know what you mean by the baptism being non-trinitarian.
Please read the scriptures Acts 8:14-17. The people were baptized, but they did not yet receive the Holy Spirit.
Please read Acts 8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."
In the above scripture (Acts 8:15), we learn they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. In Luke 11:13 we see that the Father gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to those who ask. Luke 11:13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
Acts 2:38 show that people could repent and be baptized, and then receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
IF the person beingwater baptized did not have faith in yeshua, NONE of them got the Spirit, as He only comes to us thru faith in yeshua as Gods messiah!
IF the person beingwater baptized did not have faith in yeshua, NONE of them got the Spirit, as He only comes to us thru faith in yeshua as Gods messiah!
So, did you just ignore the scriptures I gave about the people in Samaria accepted the word of God, but they did not receive the Holy Spirit until the Holy Spirit was prayed for?
A person does not always receive the Holy Spirit just because they say they believe. Jesus chooses whom he will make his home with, and you can read in Acts 8:14-17 about those in Samaria not receiving the Holy Spirit right away, but the Holy Spirit had to be prayed for.
Acts 8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."
Jesus is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit. Jesus who knows everyone’s heart, gives the Holy Spirit to those he accepts, see Acts 15:8.
You do err not knowing the Scriptures.So, did you just ignore the scriptures I gave about the people in Samaria accepted the word of God, but they did not receive the Holy Spirit until the Holy Spirit was prayed for?
A person does not always receive the Holy Spirit just because they say they believe. Jesus chooses whom he will make his home with, and you can read in Acts 8:14-17 about those in Samaria not receiving the Holy Spirit right away, but the Holy Spirit had to be prayed for.
Acts 8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."
Jesus is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit. Jesus who knows everyone’s heart, gives the Holy Spirit to those he accepts, see Acts 15:8.
Rather then "rightly dividing the word of truth," you wrongly butcher it.
You do err not knowing the Scriptures.
Rather then "rightly dividing the word of truth," you wrongly butcher it.
Jesus revealed to me that every time I am falsely accused, it is the very thing the one accusing me is guilty of, and I think you have described yourself perfectly.
If Jesus gave his Spirit to all who said they believed, then everyone no matter what religion would have been saved before they started to understand the false religion they are in.So, did you just ignore the scriptures I gave about the people in Samaria accepted the word of God, but they did not receive the Holy Spirit until the Holy Spirit was prayed for?
A person does not always receive the Holy Spirit just because they say they believe. Jesus chooses whom he will make his home with, and you can read in Acts 8:14-17 about those in Samaria not receiving the Holy Spirit right away, but the Holy Spirit had to be prayed for.
Acts 8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."
Jesus is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit. Jesus who knows everyone’s heart, gives the Holy Spirit to those he accepts, see Acts 15:8.
DHK and others here speak nonsense, for Jesus is the one who baptizes, Jesus is the one who knows everyone’s heart, and Jesus is the one who chooses.
Here is Scripture. I hope you can follow it. First we have the Great Commission, as it is given in the Book of Acts:So, did you just ignore the scriptures I gave about the people in Samaria accepted the word of God, but they did not receive the Holy Spirit until the Holy Spirit was prayed for?
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Notice the places mentioned, and in what order they are listed. Jerusalem is located in Judea. The Day of Pentecost was a feast held in Jerusalem when Jews gathered from all over, coming to the Temple. About one hundred thousand people were present representing about 13 different nations. But, ALL were Jews.
3,000 were saved on that day.
From this day all who are saved are will be indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
But the book of Acts is a book of transition.
God is a God of order. Things are done decently and in order. First God went to the Jews, as he said he would. "Both in Jerusalem and in all Judea."
"and in Samaria."
Now the gospel has come to those that are in Samaria--the Samaritans, those outside of Judea--everything in God's order (Acts 1:8).A person does not always receive the Holy Spirit just because they say they believe. Jesus chooses whom he will make his home with, and you can read in Acts 8:14-17 about those in Samaria not receiving the Holy Spirit right away, but the Holy Spirit had to be prayed for.
Acts 8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."
Everyone who is saved is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. That is what happens when a person is saved. What you see happening here is apostolic authority. It is a sign of authority from the apostles that indeed the gospel has gone outside the realm of the Jews, and to the Samaritans as well. Thus the Holy Spirit in fell in this manner, at this time in history only. It would never be repeated again for the Samaritans. As at Pentecost, this event would never happen again. All who get saved are indwelt with the Holy Spirit at the same time. This was a special historical event; a sign for the Jews.
You have really yanked that verse out of context haven't you? Look at it--in its context!Jesus is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit. Jesus who knows everyone’s heart, gives the Holy Spirit to those he accepts, see Acts 15:8.
Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
In verse 8, "bare them witness" Who? The Gentiles.
The Gentiles were convicted of the Holy Spirit just as those on the Day of Pentecost were. Those saved on the Day of Pentecost were indwelt with the Holy Spirit, and so were those saved under Paul's ministry.
Verse 9: Therefore put no difference between the Gentiles and (us), Jews.
Verse 10: Don't tempt the Lord your God. Don't be a legalist or give into them. Don't put a yoke on the Gentiles and demand them to keep the OT law that is not required of NT believers.
It is obvious that this passage says nothing even close to what you are trying to make it say. Why? You take it out of context, (as usual).
Here is Scripture. I hope you can follow it. First we have the Great Commission, as it is given in the Book of Acts:
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Notice the places mentioned, and in what order they are listed. Jerusalem is located in Judea. The Day of Pentecost was a feast held in Jerusalem when Jews gathered from all over, coming to the Temple. About one hundred thousand people were present representing about 13 different nations. But, ALL were Jews.
3,000 were saved on that day.
From this day all who are saved are will be indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
But the book of Acts is a book of transition.
God is a God of order. Things are done decently and in order. First God went to the Jews, as he said he would. "Both in Jerusalem and in all Judea."
"and in Samaria."
Now the gospel has come to those that are in Samaria--the Samaritans, those outside of Judea--everything in God's order (Acts 1:8).
Everyone who is saved is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. That is what happens when a person is saved. What you see happening here is apostolic authority. It is a sign of authority from the apostles that indeed the gospel has gone outside the realm of the Jews, and to the Samaritans as well. Thus the Holy Spirit in fell in this manner, at this time in history only. It would never be repeated again for the Samaritans. As at Pentecost, this event would never happen again. All who get saved are indwelt with the Holy Spirit at the same time. This was a special historical event; a sign for the Jews.
You have really yanked that verse out of context haven't you? Look at it--in its context!
Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
In verse 8, "bare them witness" Who? The Gentiles.
The Gentiles were convicted of the Holy Spirit just as those on the Day of Pentecost were. Those saved on the Day of Pentecost were indwelt with the Holy Spirit, and so were those saved under Paul's ministry.
Verse 9: Therefore put no difference between the Gentiles and (us), Jews.
Verse 10: Don't tempt the Lord your God. Don't be a legalist or give into them. Don't put a yoke on the Gentiles and demand them to keep the OT law that is not required of NT believers.
It is obvious that this passage says nothing even close to what you are trying to make it say. Why? You take it out of context, (as usual).
many things in Acts were done for 'just that time", in order to fulfill OT prophetic word concerning the messiah!
Such as the speaking in tongues, as evidenced/sign of the Coming of the holy Spirit at pentacost!
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