37818
Well-Known Member
Are we talking about what John the Baptist said as recorded in Luke 3:16? John addressed a mixed crowd and spoke of two baptisms by Jesus. Holy Spirit and fire (verse 17, with fire unquenchable),
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The baptism in Romans 6:3.
- Thread starter 37818
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Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
37818 Please, you are missing the point - there is not one drop of water in Romans 6.
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Also Matthew 3 :11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
37818
Well-Known Member
The immersion in what? The term, immersion, unqualified always means in water. Not water? then in what are we buried with Him by immersion into death?
37818
Well-Known Member
The saved in the Holy Spirit and the lost with fire unquenchable.
i dont see the fire as the fire of hell but as the purifying action of the Holy Spirit as a metaphor of fire related to the sanctification of the saints. in this passage the fire is not said to be unquenchable.
Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
The Holy Spirit is BIG Enough to Influence the Divine Nature of a child of God to Obey Jesus' Command to Be Scripturally Baptised into one of Jesus' Kind of Biblically Organized and Faithful assembly of believers, who Congragate to Bring Glory to God.
That is what the first six words of I Corinthians 12:13 Says, Teaches, and Means.
Jesus' Design for The church(es) He Built and Builds, has a Component of Scriptural Baptism, for entrance and membership.
There has never been and never will be any concept of 'the Spirit baptising' anything, other than the supernaturally evil invention snatched from thin air, that is not of God.
Nothing of the kind will stand before God at The Judgment, because He Didn't put that heresy in The Bible down here.
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Jesus' Design for The church(es) He Built and Builds, has a Component of 'assembling' and any suggestion to 'body' that indicates something other than a 'body' is none-Biblical, Extra-Biblical, supernaturally influenced error.
There was one body of Scripturally Baptized believers, in Corinth, because The Holy Spirit Saved them and Led them to be baptized into her.
because of
The Self-Same Holy Spirit of God
were all of us that we're Saved and Led to Follow The Lord's Command and Example to be Scripturally Baptised and become a member of one of The churches Jesus Built,
We were all Scripturally Baptised, by water, as a Saved soul, to demonstrate what Jesus Had Done for us, by The Authority of God, Vested in The New Testament,
... those are the 'we all' that 'by One Spirit' 'were all' water 'baptised' 'into One Body' of believers, at Corinth.
How Satan sold anything else to the religious World is because they are not Taught in Jesus' churches, because they weren't Effectually Influenced, as being resisted, or Taught, in The Providence of God.
Why their knee-jerk and continued opposition to The Bible persists is, apparently, by The Same Determinant Counsel and Forknowlegde of God.
Why else would everyone fight The Bible and cherish what is not Taught and not Teachable, because it is not there?
Do you hear anyone act like they would ever pursue the possibility of Bowing to God?
...
I haven't seen that, either.
...
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
They were water Baptised only after bringing forth fruit to indicate to some degree, outwardly before men, that they had understood their position before God, through The Word of The Lord, and were Granted and Given Spirit-Wrought Conviction of their sins, followed by REPENTANCE of their hopelessness before God as Hellbound sinners, and Agreement with the Volume of The Book, which Reveals Jesus as The Savior, Toward Whom they were Given Faith to believe in His Death, Burial, and Resurrection, to Save their souls.
Ever hear of any of that?
You're bringing up some Common Scriptural baptisms taking place on believers?
Great.
You're not trying to come up with godless, other gospel, without sin, Conviction, Faith, or The Blood of Jesus, are you?
Just physical water?
Just don't go there.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
We are talking about that verse which is a Part of God's Word.
Things made up by people are not in God's Word.
This 5 items are not in The Book.
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1.) Nothing about: "The Spirit Immersing", anything,
at any time, it is not there.
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2.) There is nothing about any kind of Immersing
or baptism that has anything to do with Salvation.
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3.) nor "The Spirit Immersing", as Entrance into a church assembly
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4.) And, as "the Body of Christ", if this is referring to 'all Saved people',
that is nowhere to be found in The Bible.
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5.) Much less "The Spirit Immersing", as Entrance referring to 'all Saved people',
and called "the Body of Christ".
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Just saying, just showing others that there is the Baptism of Jesus Christ in Matthew 3:11 that is DEFINITELY not water as the word of God says so in no uncertain words.
The O/P wanted interpretations of Romans 6 so i gave his one from Matthew 3:11 and was pummeled with insults.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
The fact that there are figurative uses of the word, 'baptism', is groovy, but has no association with the 'one baptism' Ordained of God, in Roman's 6, which was in water.
Whoever thinks they were 'pummeled with insults', for pointing out heresy might want to consider how God Feels.
The baptism Jesus Performs, in Matthew 3:11, with The Holy Spirit, when He Immersed His church, at Jerusalem, one time on The Day of Pentecost, to Anoint The Most Holy.
Several heresies have been voiced on this thread that claim to originate from Matthew 3:11.
They are of Demonic origin.
Is that an insult?
Jesus is said to 'Spirit baptize'?
Nobody says who, or why, or when, or where, or for WHAT PURPOSE.
John the Baptist was baptizing them as God Commanded him to if those that were Saved Followed Jesus' Command to be baptized.
Explain what Jesus was Doing, when John said Jesus was going to baptize with The Holy Ghost.
Who, or why, or when, or where, or for WHAT PURPOSE.
Be sure to throw out something unsupported, elsewhere.
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Jesus was to Immerse the lost in Hellfire.
Salvation Involves REPENTANCE of sin that the lost soul HAS BEEN GIVEN CONVICTION OVER, by God.
No Conviction, no Salvation.
No Repentance, no Salvation.
These people in Matthew 3 had Conviction and Repentance:
in Matthew 3:4; "the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
5 "Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins."
These people in Matthew 3 Do Not have Conviction and Repentance:
7 "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 "And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 "And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire."
If they Did Not HAVE and Did Not Show Conviction and Repentance: John said: "every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire."
Jesus was to Immerse the lost in Hellfire.
Your verse quoted from Matthew 3:11 is here;
These people in Matthew 3 had Conviction and Repentance:
"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:"
but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: *he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost,
These people in Matthew 3 Do Not have Conviction and Repentance:
and with fire:"
Jesus was to Immerse the lost in Hellfire.
The next verse says;
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
All from verses 10, 11, & 12.
Jesus was to Immerse the lost in Hellfire.
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Maybe, one of you will get that Jesus was to Immerse the lost in Hellfire since No Conviction or Repentance is the indication of lost souls that will be "cast into the fire" , "baptised ...with fire", and "he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
*although you know nothing, nor care anything, about Jesus Anointing The Most Holy, His church body He Founded and Gave Another Comforter, on The Day of Pentecost, AS A CORPORATE INSTITUTION UNTIL HE COMES AGAIN
*he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost,"
...never an individual.
So he was high and dry.
He went “through” the flood, immersed (Baptist’s) in the situation, but never immersed in the wet water.
Baptism means immersed, it may or may not be associated with H2O.
No, Romans 6 is NOT about H2O.
Replace “baptism” with the word immersion. That what baptism means.
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3Do you not know that all of us who have been immersed into Christ Jesus were immersed into his death? 4We were buried therefore with him by immersion into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
I wasn’t at the grave, but I have read the records of others that were. I don’t find a wash tub full of water being pulled to that sight..
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Perhaps you can find H2O in this passage?
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3Do you not know that all of us who have been immersed into Christ Jesus were immersed into his death? 4We were buried therefore with him by immersion into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
At no time does believer Baptism be other than a picture.
However, Romans 6 is not presenting a picture.
Romans 6 states, immersed into Christ, immersed into His death.
That is the in what believers are immersed.
Not a drop of H2O.
"a corporate institution" hmm, i can't find those words anywhere in my bible, kinda of like 'the invisible church"
Of course, if you treat your Systematic Theology as a bible well yes indeed there it is.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
No, you missed Church Truth Taught all throughout The New Testament and many times in The Old Testament and aren't interested in The Scriptural nuances of baptism Revealed in these verses, which involve The Bible Ordinance of Baptism in water.
You have no clue what baptism involves as that word is used in The New Testament, by God?
And you are content to demand that something immersing and immersing some more, having to do about Jesus, or of Jesus, or behind Jesus, or some other preposition or insignificant, irrelevant illusion that is not there and never has been having to do with something about God and The Bible, or Salvation, that you can't name, but I can.
Death.
Gee, I don't want to be 'killed', which is all the 'immersion' you substitutes expresses in those verses, as a False Doctrine.
Killed. Romans 6:3.
being Killed. Romans 6:4.
Just to deny Jesus is The Savior?
i am not denying the doctrine of baptism immersed in water using the Triune formula - I was baptized that way myself at Tremont Temple Baptist Church in Boston Massachusetts in 1966.
As My contribution to the debate i am defending the position that Romans 6 may NOT be about water baptism.
because (and I repeat) there is not a drop of water in Romans chapter 6.
As My contribution to the debate i am defending the position that Romans 6 may NOT be about water baptism.
because (and I repeat) there is not a drop of water in Romans chapter 6.
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37818
Well-Known Member
Acts of the Apostles 1:5, ". . . you shall be immersed with the Holy Spirit . . . ."
The real baptism of God is the one He does upon all the sdaved by the Oily Spirit when born again, Baptized by Him into Jesus and the Body. That happens when we receive Jesus as Lord thru faith, and then we are to get water baptized!