The baptism in Romans 6:3.

[agedman]

No, you missed Church Truth Taught all throughout The New Testament and many times in The Old Testament and aren't interested in The Scriptural nuances of baptism Revealed in these verses, which involve The Bible Ordinance of Baptism in water.

You have no clue what baptism involves as that word is used in The New Testament, by God?

And you are content to demand that something immersing and immersing some more, having to do about Jesus, or of Jesus, or behind Jesus, or some other preposition or insignificant, irrelevant illusion that is not there and never has been having to do with something about God and The Bible, or Salvation, that you can't name, but I can.

Death.

Gee, I don't want to be 'killed', which is all the 'immersion' you substitutes expresses in those verses, as a False Doctrine.

Killed. Romans 6:3.
being Killed. Romans 6:4.

Just to deny Jesus is The Savior?

Water Baptistim imparts NOTHING.

Perhaps it would be best you should examine the word "baptizo." To immerse and to overwhelm are also part of the definition.

One other point.

Do not assume you can make statements, such as "Just to deny Jesus is the Savior" to me.

I am the adopted son of the God of all heaven and earth. I am His, and I know Him intimately.

"I have passed from death unto life." I merely await the disposal of this fleshly husk at His timing and His pleasure.

For you to even think that I would deny The Lord Jesus Christ as the Savior is just a very poor understanding of who He really is and what He has accomplished.

I was once covered over and dead in trespass and sin, but I was "immersed into Christ Jesus".
I was "immersed into his death."
I was buried with him by immersion into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, I too might walk in newness of life."

Water had NOTHING to do with this.

My Redeemer Lives.
And because of that I can also with all veracity state, "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."

That is what Romans 6 is about.


.

 

[Alan Gross]

Water Baptistim imparts NOTHING.

Perhaps it would be best you should examine the word "baptizo." To immerse and to overwhelm are also part of the definition.

One other point.

Do not assume you can make statements, such as "Just to deny Jesus is the Savior" to me.

I am the adopted son of the God of all heaven and earth. I am His, and I know Him intimately.

"I have passed from death unto life." I merely await the disposal of this fleshly husk at His timing and His pleasure.

For you to even think that I would deny The Lord Jesus Christ as the Savior is just a very poor understanding of who He really is and what He has accomplished.

I was once covered over and dead in trespass and sin, but I was "immersed into Christ Jesus".
I was "immersed into his death."
I was buried with him by immersion into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, I too might walk in newness of life."

Water had NOTHING to do with this.

My Redeemer Lives.
And because of that I can also with all veracity state, "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."

That is what Romans 6 is about.


.

The false teaching rule you have for yourself of implying 'kill', as 'immerse', in place of God's Divinely Ordained Ordinance of Scriptural Baptism, in the occurances of the word, 'baptism', in Roman's invents a heretical 'way of salvation' other than that Jesus Christ is The Savior.

You can have your Testimonies of belief and Salvation all you want and be Saved to the High Heavens, and still choose to deny Jesus His Teaching in Roman's 6 of the picture believers demonstrate in Bible Baptism by water, which relates to the Gospel of Jesus Christ's Death, Burial, and Ressurrection, but it is not The Spirit of God Leading you to do so.

After not permitting this Bible Teaching of Jesus Glorifying Himself, in the Common Understanding and Identification those believers who Receive Scriptural Baptism display and disclose, as his children join Him in Entrance into His church Fellowships, What in The Name of God are you inventing, exactly?

What is this thing?

Drowned under immersion What?

Immersion killing you how?

What immerses?

Why?

Where did you come up with this rule for yourself?

From a blackboard in a heretical school?

What in the World kind of teaching is this?

You define and answer what I am asking, before saying "that is what Roman's 6 is all about."

You say,

"My Redeemer Lives.
And because of that I can also with all veracity state, "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."

That is what the water baptism in Roman's 6 pictures.

The Gospel.

Those being baptized in water are picturing that they have been crusified with Christ.

Very good.

Someone needs a board to write on that defines the Bible concept of The Divine Ordinance of baptism the way The Divine God head Does in His Divine Book.

...

The previous statement to those you made that are right, is wrong:

"Water had NOTHING to do with this."

 

[HankD]

When a debate author's rebuttals show themselves as mostly an ad hominem nature then the author demonstrates that he/she has lost the debate.

 

[Revmitchell]

There are two or three views. Water, the Spirit or the Body of Chrisr (1 Corinthians 12:12-13). What I would like to see are, as much as possible definitve explainations for each. Where I would be able to give a defence for each view. It is my view, the term for baptism, unqualified, refers to water. So you know in advance where I am coming from.

Baptism in this passage cannot be understood by isolating one verse. It must be understood in the greater context of the passage, the history and usage of the word, and the symbolism of the idea of Baptism as used in the greater passage. To start off we were literally Baptized by something. There is another usage of the word where men are Baptized in the Holy Spirit. So there are only two usages in scripture:

1. Baptized by water (Romans 6:3)
2. Baptized by the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:5)

Now there are a couple of references in which men are described as being baptized into something which is completely different than being baptized by something. They are:

1. 1 Corinthians 12:12-13 (Baptized into one body)
2. Romans 6:3 (Baptized into Christ)

Being Baptized into something (i.e.Christ, one body) is not the same as the act of being Baptized. Being Baptized into something denotes the idea of being Baptized for a specific purpose. Being Baptized by the Holy Spirit brings us into the body of Christ with gifts to serve God and fulfill His purposes in our lives. Being Baptized into Christ is a confession by the person that we are now a child of Christ and we identify with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. In this identification we are committed to being new creatures in Christ as just as the perishable man that Christ was, in His earthly ministry and was put away at His resurrection, so to do we put away the old man and work to only walk in a life that glorifies Christ (Romans 6:4)


The passage is about putting away sin and the old life and walking as those who resemble Christ (Romans 6:11). Water Baptism is a confession that we are committed to doing that. It is a literal action that symbolizes the death of Christ (the death of the old man being buried) and the resurrection of Christ (the new man being separated from the old) (Romans 6:5) It is a reminder that believers have confessed to being like Christ and not to forget our commitment made to Him in our water Baptism (Romans 6:13).

 

[37818]

- there is not one drop of water in Romans 6.

That agument could be made of 78 of batism references, including Matthew 28:19, ". . . Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: . . ." Water is not specified!

The question needs to be given as to how one must qualify the term for immersion when it does not mean with water.

 

[HankD]

That agument could be made of 78 of batism references, including Matthew 28:19, ". . . Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: . . ." Water is not specified!

The question needs to be given as to how one must qualify the term for immersion when it does not mean with water.

Good point. That's an improvement over another who posts here. Thanks (and thanks for not throwing me into the bottomless pit ).

Yes reasons should be based upon several observations, One area which is largely overlooked are the writings of the Early Church Fathers.

 

[Alan Gross]

Acts of the Apostles 1:5, ". . . you shall be immersed with the Holy Spirit . . . ."

I don't know if you have ever heard The Bible Say that Jesus was to baptize with The Holy Spirit.

The Spirit has ner immersed, or figuratively 'baptised' anything.

The Spirit didn't baptize.

There is no such thing as, 'Spirit baptism', or 'baptized in The Spirit', other than Jesus baptizing what He Said He was Going to baptize and what He did Baptiste with The Holy Spirit, which is the same thing John the Baptist and The Prophet Daniel said Jesus was to baptize.

For what I can gather, Noone here on the Board shares my understanding of the one and only definition of the word, 'church', as it is used in The Bible, for civil, or a gathering of Saved believers and specifically not the later.

However, a church and specifically Jesus' church He Divinely Founded was sitting in front of Him, in the verse and context of verses you quoted.

Act 1:4: "And, being assembled together with them,"

I am going to say 'a called-out assembly' was gathered together and that those individuals had been Saved, and after being Saved, they were all baptized into one body, the body of Jesus' called-out assembly at Jerusalem.

They had been baptized by a man Sent from God with The Specific Command and Authority of God. to baptist.

Just as an 'aside', when they were immersed, they did not remain immersed.

Acts 1:4 "And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me."

Jesus had Promised His church Another Comforter, when He had Been with them, before His Resurrection.

He was not Speaking to people that did not already have The Holy Spirit in their soul.

And Jesus was not Speaking to these Saved people, as Individuals.

Jesus was Addressing His Divinely Organized Assembly He had Called, "My church", by His Design and Construction.

Jesus Promised His church body, at Jerusalem The Holy Spirit.

The church members of His would experience The Anointing of His church He Built, The Most Holy spoken of, by Daniel.

5 "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

Jesus' Most Holy Organism and Organization, as a Divinely Originated Institution was to be Anointed and since Scriptural Baptised believers are what Jesus Builds His churches out of, these church members were Going to be Affected when Jesus Baptised His church with The Holy Spirit.

.... con't...

"commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5" For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

Acts 1:8; "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

These Apostles, within Jesus' church, Received Special Gifts to Authenticate The Message they Preach as 'from God', just as The Public Inaguration of The church Jesus Had Organized, at Jerusalem, on The Day of Pentecost showed the surrounding World that 'she' was of Divine Significance, Origin, and Authority.

3,000 were Saved that Day and what happened to them?

...those Saved souls were added...

... added to what?....

... to Jesus' called-out assembly, at Jerusalem that He Had just Baptised one time, forever, with The Governing Presense of The Holy Spirit.

.... how were those 3,000 Saved souls "added" to Jesus' church He Founded and Anointed?

... Scriptural Baptism, by The Authority of God.

The same water baptism that is their demonstration of The Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Jesus, in Roman's 6.

 

[Alan Gross]

"a corporate institution" hmm, i can't find those words anywhere in my bible, kinda of like 'the invisible church"

Of course, if you treat your Systematic Theology as a bible well yes indeed there it is.

"My church"

 

[Alan Gross]

When a debate author's rebuttals show themselves as mostly an ad hominem nature then the author demonstrates that he/she has lost the debate.

That is a gratious consent to defeat.

So, glad you could pick up a new vocabulary word from here on the Board.

 

[Alan Gross]

That agument could be made of 78 of batism references, including Matthew 28:19, ". . . Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: . . ." Water is not specified!

The question needs to be given as to how one must qualify the term for immersion when it does not mean with water.

If it were not a Chalkboard Rule of Error that God, Himself, is not Permitted to Qualify the term for 'baptism', as He Certainly Does in The Bible, then He Could Write One and be allowed to Provide a Copy in front of your eyes.

However, were He to Violate that Chalkboard Rule of yours and Put His Own Words in front of your eyes, God is Not Obligated to Open them.

 

[HankD]

That is a gratious consent to defeat.

So, glad you could pick up a new vocabulary word from here on the Board.

Ditto

 

[37818]

I am the adopted son of the God . . .

So your body has been redeemed, your wait has been over. Romans 8:23, ". . .waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. . . ."

 

[37818]

. . . the Early Church Fathers.

Like who?
And for what teaching?

 

[37818]

I don't know if you have ever heard The Bible Say that Jesus was to baptize with The Holy Spirit.

The Spirit has ner immersed, or figuratively 'baptised' anything.

The Spirit didn't baptize.

Hmm. John 4:24; Romans 8:9; 1 John 5:12; Romans 8:16; 1 Corinthians 12:13. Acts of the Apostles 1:5.

 

[Alan Gross]

Ditto

I don't say John was Sent from God to drowned all Christians.

You made no point, other than Jesus was not allowed to Build a Divine Corporate Institution, to which;

He Commended the Oracles of God,

The Whole Counsel and Wisdom of God,

The Holy Spirit as God's Governing Vicar of Christ,

a treasurer,

officers,

voting privileges,

Church Dicipline,

The Lord's Supper,

and The Great Commission,

along with The Promise to Sustain her Existence, until He Comes, Again,

in which He Sang in The Mist of,

and Taught Three Chapters in a Letter, Recorded in Revelation,

along with all His other Teachings

and The Love He Has for His Bride, to Die for her in a Special Assurance that Organized Gatherings of Scripturally Baptised believers would always been on Earth, to Bring Glory to God,

in One of The Particular Kind of Corporate Congragations The Holy Spirit Perpetually Protected,

as the women who fled into the wilderness.

You also said Jesus 'mother may I?, no, you may not, because you have a R... U... L... E.. that God Can Not Institute Scriptural Baptism and Ordain baptism as a Divine Ordinance of Jesus' churches that includes the implementation of water, in the Jordan River, or anywhere else.

So, maybe John immersed Jesus in your secret ingredient and didn't drowned Jesus in the Jordan, by only being allowed to immerse Jesus in water and leave Him there, to drown under water.

Yeah, hopefully 'one baptism is not water'.

Maybe, that's why 'God put the blank pages in the back of the Bible', for you to write those brilliant decrees in there, for the rest of the 9 Billion people on Earth to know.

What a group.

I'm really wrong about you saying John was Sent from God to Drowned all Christians, then.

Darn, I thought I was smaurt.

Jesus doesn't even Know His Bible compared to you.

I guess that's your point.

 

[HankD]

That is a gratious consent to defeat.

So, glad you could pick up a new vocabulary word from here on the Board.

Alan, I often play the role of a Catholic or non-Baptist Protestant in the Debate Forums to spur a little more interest in the subject at hand.

This technique was used at my alma mater Calvary University in hermenuetics- very effectively as a teaching method.

So lets try again. It seems you know Greek, so...

3:11 ἐγὼ μὲν βαπτίζω ὑμᾶς ἐν ὕδατι εἰς μετάνοιαν ὁ δὲ ὀπίσω μου ἐρχόμενος ἰσχυρότερός μου ἐστίν οὗ οὐκ εἰμὶ ἱκανὸς τὰ ὑποδήματα βαστάσαι αὐτὸς ὑμᾶς βαπτίσει ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ καὶ πυρί

you can see the preposition "en" in the passage is used and should render as does the ASV :
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire:

So the prepositional phrase "with the Holy Spirit" S/B "in the Holy Spirit" locative (Dana and Mantey Greek Grammar) not instrumental - understandable translation by Church of England baby baptizers.

So Jesus baptizes IN the Spirit not WITH the Spirit. To be forthright RE "en" - many/most grammarians say that "en" can be translated in some cases as "with" but I don't think so.

What evidenc(es) if any are there FROM THE TEXT of Romans 6 that water baptism is being spoken of seeing that the word water (hudor) itself is not found in the text?

 

[HankD]

Like who?
And for what teaching?

Try doing the research for yourself. The results will be more satisfying.

 

[HankD]

Like who?
And for what teaching?

Start here

Baptism in the Early Church - Ministry Magazine

 

[37818]

Start here

Baptism in the Early Church - Ministry Magazine

SDA. Of course does not make the information bad.

 

[HankD]

SDA. Of course does not make the information bad.

It has a bibliography AFTER all the comments.

Often that is the most valuable part of a work,