The Beginning of the Church of Jesus Christ

[37818]

7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

A prophecy of Jesus' bodily resurrection.

Acts 13:33, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

 

[JD731]

Another though concerning this. Is to be born out of the dead, regeneration?

1 Cor 15:12,13 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: Jesus Christ could not have been the firstborn from the dead.

V's 16,17 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

In other words if Christ is not the firstborn from the dead, your sins have not been washed away in his blood. You have not been saved.

Note the following verse is chronological relative to that thought.

Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

He was the firstborn from the dead therefore we have been washed from our sins. We have been saved.

IMHO that should shed light upon ;

Titus 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Acts 2:33 states Jesus Christ received the promise of the Spirt from the Father.

Also Matt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. relative to Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

That we might be born out of the dead as was Christ.

Good job, Pertcho, Amen! The time of the new birth is when the Spirit of God enters into the body of that one who believes the gospel. It was true of Jesus Christ, the firstborn, but it was not because he believed the gospel, he is the gospel. But the Spirit gave him Life. The Spirit is the Life. He indwells the bodies of the believers. When he entered into the body of Jesus in the tomb, he glorified his body. This is the meaning of predestination. So, here is the order for our Lord Jesus. He was a man in his ministry on earth. He humbled himself and being made in the likeness of man he became as we are yet he was a man who possessed the Spirit of God because his blood line was not tainted with sin. He received his fleshly body from Mary but God is his Father. Genealogy is counted from the man. I am going to give two proof verses that Jesus, the man with a human soul from God at his physical birth, like yours and mine, and a weak physical body like Mary's because that is where it came from and Mary had a weak human body, but unlike you and me the sinless and pure blooded Jesus had the Father's Spirit dwelling in his body all his life except the last 3 hours of his life in that body. Here are two proof texts to show that here:

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth.
______________

Jn 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

The Life of God is in no man everlastingly and he only ever dwelt in two men between the creation of Adam and the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the first and second Adam but everlastingly in neither of them. Both of these men died. Both died because of sin. The first man died because of his own sin and the second Adam died for the sins of the whole world. He had no sins of his own and death had no authority to hold him and God raised him from the dead. He raised him from the dead by the Spirit of God entering into his body and his soul, in Paradise, was reunited with his body and his body was glorified and went to heaven to sit beside the Father on his throne. To dwell in the heavenlies requires one be glorified in their bodies. For all of us who are saved await the glorification of our bodied unto what the Bible calls the redemption of our bodies. This takes place at the rapture of the church, which we are all a member who have the earnest of the Spirit who both indwells these weak bodies and likewise seals them until the day of redemption when they will be glorified and taken to heaven to be with the Father.

This is what Romans 8 is all about. It is the Spirit, who is our power over sin who will indwell our bodies and give us everlasting life, never to forsake us

Consider this proof here and think:

Ro 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

If you read the previous 7 verses this is because the carnal mind is concerned with things of the flesh and does not think on the things of God.

(Excerpt)
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

And here is what he says about the Spirit of God:

Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

So, the Spirit is the Life of God! It is told us here.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

If the body does not have the Spirit of Christ and God in it it is dead. However that does not mean the body is ready for burial. It must be quickened, given life, by the Spirit entering into it for it to live. That is what we are told. Therefore the meaning of death is separation from God and the new birth take place when the Spirit of God enters the body. So says this passage of scripture. Look!

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Reason and logic. In V 14 the man with the Spirit indwelling his body is born again and is a son of God. That is what a birth does. It gives one the status of Son by giving one the nature of the Father. Now we are in the Father's image and the whole trinity is equally involved.

We are not yet glorified like Jesus is and we are not yet in heaven with the Father like Jesus is but a new glorified body is the promise of God and is our hope. It says so right here in this chapter. We must wait until the last soul is saved and the heavenly family is complete when we will all be glorified together as one and taken to heaven where we will be with our Lord forever.

Consider the future glorification in these last couple verses;

) 1
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

) 2
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Men are born again when the Spirit of God occupies the body eternally.

May the Lord be pleased with the careful handling of his glorious word. Amen! It is such a blessing to read it.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Continuing to advance the subject of the op, the beginning of the church of Jesus Christ, I must say it is disappointing to see so many struggle with this doctrine.

We appreciate to condescending down to share all your highly advanced new knowledge with us. We're all ears.

Is anyone reading the scriptures?

And dying to our flesh, before we think we are receiving some special revelation with no Bible Words to show it.

I have quoted Col 1:18 that is clear about the beginning of the church.

You say that there is something in Colossians 1:18 that is supposed to be "about the beginning of the church"?

There is more in this verse that people refuse to believe.

Maybe, maybe not so much, once we see that there doesn't have to be any extra explanation for the plain Truth.

Like Jesus being the firstborn son of God in the family.

This is heresy, if you are saying that Jesus had a Beginning, where He was at some time 'firstborn', into 'the family'.

All the heirs share equally in the inheritance and they are all as one son.

For you to say all Saved souls are all as one son is very weird to say, much less if Jesus is supposed to be involved
and every joint heir with Jesus is also together with Him and "are all as one son".

There is a true saying about the Christian faith. Either a man is born once and dies twice or he is born twice and dies once. There is that which is called the second death. That will be experienced by all who have not experienced the second birth. Jesus said in John 3, "ye must be born again."

This true saying is not applicable to Jesus.

Jesus did not need to be Born Again.

Jesus always Possessed the Spirit of God, Who is Spirit.

Jesus Took Back Up the Life He Laid Down.

"No man taketh it from Me, but I Lay it Down of Myself.
I have Power to Lay it Down, and I have Power to Take it Again.
This Commandment have I Received of My Father." John 10:18.

I would like to say that Col 1:18 is not the only place in the scripture that says Jesus has two births, a physical birth at Bethlehem and a second birth at his resurrection from the dead.

What could be said to have been 'birthed', since Jesus Took Back Up the Life He Laid Down?

Non Bible believers will not believe this because I will be quoting the Bible saying it.

(most people do not know this but "the people" is a designation for the chosen people of God, the nation of Israel).

When the Lord speaks of his wrath, he is speaking of the "day of the Lord" when he will pour out his wrath in the great tribulation for 1260 days.

God says here that he has begotten his son.

A question to ask, "are you a Jehovah's (false) Witness?

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

"the Lord hath Said unto Me, Thou Art My Son";
not by creation, as angels and men;
nor by adoption, as saints;
nor by office, as civil magistrates;
nor on account of His Incarnation or Resurrection;
nor because of the Great Love of God unto Him;

"but in such a way of filiation as cannot be said of any creature nor of any other, Hebrews 1:5;

5; "For unto which of the Angels said He at any time, Thou Art My Son, this Day have I Begotten Thee?
And again, I Will Be to Him a Father, and He Shall Be to Me a Son?"

"He is the True, Proper, Natural, and Eternal Son of God, and as such Declared, Owned, and Acknowledged by Jehovah the Father, as in these words; the foundation of which relation lies in what follows:

"this Day have I Begotten Thee"; which act of Begetting refers not to the Nature, nor to the Office, but the Person of Christ; not to His Nature, not to His Divine Nature, which is common with the Father and Spirit; wherefore if Jesus was Begotten, the Father's and Spirit's must be also: much less to His Human Nature, in which He is never said to be Begotten, but always to be Made, and with respect to which He is without Father: nor to His Office as Mediator, in which He is not a Son, but a Servant; besides, He was a Son previous to His Being Prophet, Priest, and King; and His Office is not the Foundation of His Sonship, but His Sonship is the Foundation of His Office; or His Sonship is the Foundation of His Office by which that is Supported, and which Fits Him for the Performance of His Office:

"but "this Day have I Begotten Thee" has respect to His Person, as the Eternal Son of God Who has Always been Generated from the Father as the Eternal Logos, otherwise Proverbs 8:30, couldn't say "always" with regard to Jesus ; because, as in human generation, person begets person, and like begets like, so in Divine Generation; but care must be taken to remove all imperfection from it, such as Divisibility and Multiplication of Essence, Priority and Posteriority, Dependence, and the like: nor can the "modus" or manner of it be conceived or explained by us.

The date of it, "today", designs Eternity, as in Isaiah 43:13,

ONE DAY IS AS A THOUSAND YEARS AND A THOUSAND YEARS AS A DAY
SPEAKS OF HOW 'TIME IS IRRELIVENT TO GOD', SINCE ALL OF ETERNITY IS ONE CONTIUIOUS DAY WITH GOD.

There is no application where a mathematical formula could include this expression by only quoting half of it.
That would be a half truth, or whole lie. To say a 'day' is supposed to be equal to "a thousand years" is not what that verse says whatsoever and it is impossible to use by itself, without adding "and a thousand years are as a day".

"This Day" means that Day which is one Continued Day, an Everlasting Now. And this may be applied to any time and case in which Christ is Declared to be the Son of God; as at His Incarnation, His Baptism, and Transfiguration upon the Mount, and His Resurrection from the dead, as it is in Acts 13:33, see below; because then He was Declared to be the Son of God with Power, Romans 1:4, see below; and to His Ascension into Heaven, where He was Made Lord and Christ, and His Divine Sonship more Manifestly Appeared; which seems to be the time and case more especially referred to here, if it be compared with Hebrews 1:3, see below.

Con't.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

"The words cited by the Apostle are, "Thou Art My Son, this Day have I Begotten Thee";...

"The words are to be understood of the Eternal Filiation of Christ, and are produced, to set forth the Greatness and Dignity of His Person; Whom God had Raised and Sent Forth in Human Nature, to be the Savior and Redeemer of His people:

"though should they be applied to the Resurrection of Christ from the dead, it will no ways prejudice the Doctrine of Christ's Proper and Natural Eternal Sonship, as being the Only Begotten of the Father;

"since the Resurrection of Christ is not the cause of Jesus' Sonship, or the reason why He is called the Son of God, but a Manifestation of Jesus as Being the Son of God is displayed in His Resurrection;

"Christ was the Son of God, before His Resurrection from the dead;

Jesus was declared to be "My Beloved Son" by the Voice of God the Father from Heaven, was believed on by His Disciples as Being the Son of God, and confessed by others, both men and devils: besides, if His Resurrection was the Cause of Jesus' Sonship, He had to have Beget Himself, which is absurd, because He was Himself concerned in His Resurrection from the dead;

"No man taketh it from Me, but I Lay it Down of Myself.
I have Power to Lay it Down, and I have Power to Take it again.
This Commandment have I Received of My Father." John 10:18.

"more over, His Sonship would not be proper, or real, but figurative and metaphorical only, whereas Jesus is God's Own, or Proper Son; besides, on this account He could not be called God's Only Begotten Son, because there are others that have been, and millions that will be Raised from the dead besides Him: but the reason why these words are applied to the Resurrection of Christ, by some, if we allow the concession for them to do so, it is not, and can't be, because He was then Begotten for the first time, as the Son of God, but because Jesus was then Manifested and Shown at that time to be the Eternally Begotten Son of God;

Often, "things are said to be, when they are only Manifested or being shown to be; so it is when Christ is said to be that Day Begotten, because He was SHOWN, OR PROVEN and

"Declared to be the Son of God with Power, by the Resurrection from the dead", Romans 1:4.

"Hence these words are applicable to any time or thing wherein Christ is Manifested to be the Only Begotten Son of God, and are accordingly applied to different times and things; see Hebrews 1:3.

3 "The Son is the Radiance of God’s Glory and the Exact Representation of His Nature,
Upholding all things by His Powerful Word.
After He had Provided Purification for sins,
He Sat Down at the Right Hand of the Majesty on High."

Who will believe this second Psalm is speaking of the second birth of Jesus?

I believe that I would willfully call "speaking of the second birth of Jesus", blasphemous, the way I see what you're saying.

Consider this verse in Romans 1, an epistle that is an outline of the seven dispensations if there ever was one.

All seven of the presumed "seven dispensations" are purely arbitrary and not needed nor can possibly defined as being unique unto themselves to any significant extent whatsoever and the seventh is entirely obliterated by God Teaching that the New Testament writers knew they were at the End of the Age.

"And if one who searched the Scriptures for indications of dispensational divisions were to assert that there was one dispensation that extended from Abraham to David, another from David to the Babylonian captivity, and another from the Babylonian captivity to Christ, he might refer to Matthew 1:17 as lending support to his scheme; whereas for the dispensational system set forth in the Scofield Bible there is no semblance of any scriptural proof."

"So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations;
and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations;
and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations."

"Then further we are told, in the words of a prominent dispensationalist, that each of these seven distinct periods of time has "a character exclusively its own," being "wholly complete and sufficient in itself," that it "is in no wise exchangeable for the others, and cannot be commingled."

"That is to say, each "dispensation" has its own peculiar and distinguishing characteristics, insomuch that, when one succeeds another, there is a complete and radical change in the character and principles of God's dealings with the world.

"So say the dispensationalists; but I find in the Scriptures no evidence to support the statement."

"And this a matter of special importance because, as I expect to point out in some detail later on, the humanly concocted scheme of the "seven dispensations," which we are now considering, has had the effect of blotting out, for those who accept it, the Illuminating Truth which the Scriptures Reveal concerning the Two Covenants, "the Old Covenant," whereof Moses was the mediator, and "the New Covenant" whereof Jesus Christ is the Mediator.

"Because the Bible clearly distinguishes those Two Covenants (which are the two Major Administrations of the One Eternal Covenant of Grace) and the Eras to which they respectively belong; and moreover, upon that difference depends Truth of the Highest Value. Therefore, one object I have in view, in exposing the unfounded character of dispensationalism, is to clear the ground for the presentation of the Truth concerning "THE TWO COVENANTS" (Galatians 4:24).

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1927_mauro_gospel-kingdom.html

Con't.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Jesus Christ was born twice and died once according to the scriptures.

Nope.

Here is what I am getting to. God says here that he has begotten his son.

Does he mean at Bethlehem, although it could truthfully be said that he did.

But the scriptures will clarify it.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Those among us who do not believe it please tell us why.

You probably connect the words, "He hath Raised Up Jesus again", to automatically be referring to His Resurrection.

This a repeat, I believe, but Br. Gill makes several important and salient points here;

"Thou Art My Son, this Day have I Begotten Thee"; The words are to be understood of the Eternal Filiation of Christ, and are produced, to set forth the Greatness and Dignity of His Person; Whom God had Raised and Sent Forth in Human Nature, to be the Savior and Redeemer of His people: (though should they be applied to the Resurrection of Christ from the dead, it will no ways prejudice the Doctrine of Christ's Proper and Natural Eternal Sonship, as being the Only Begotten of the Father;

"since the Resurrection of Christ is not the Cause of His Sonship,
or the reason why He is called the Son of God, but a Manifestation of it;

"Christ was the Son of God, before His Resurrection from the dead;

"Jesus was Declared to be God the Father's "Beloved Son" by a voice from Heaven,
was believed on by His Disciples as the Son of God, and confessed by others, both men and devils:

"besides, if His Resurrection was the cause of His Sonship, He must Beget Himself, which is absurd,
because Jesus was Himself concerned in His Resurrection from the dead;

"more over, Jesus' Sonship would not be Proper, but figurative and metaphorical,
whereas He is God's Own, or Proper Son;

"besides, on this account He could not be called God's Only Begotten Son,
because there are others that have been, and millions that will be raised from the dead besides him:

"but the reason why these words are applied to the Resurrection of Christ, allowing them to be so, is not because Jesus experienced a 'birth' and was then Begotten as the Son of God, but because He was then Manifested to be the Eternally Begotten Son of God;

"things are said to be, when they are only Manifested to be;

"so Christ is said to be that Day Begotten, because He was

"Declared to be the Son of God with Power, by the Resurrection from the dead", Romans 1:4.

"Hence these words are applicable to any time or thing wherein Christ is Manifested to be the Only Begotten Son of God, and accordingly are applied to different times and things; see Hebrews 1:3."

4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Those among us who do not believe it please tell us why.

Jehovah's Witnesses (JWs) assert that the term "prototokos" in Colossians 1:15 suggests that Jesus is the first created being. Their argument hinges on two main points:

Prototokos is a partitive word: This implies that Jesus is a part of creation.

Prototokos means "first in time": This establishes Jesus as the first creature in the category.

However, a critical examination of the linguistic and theological context challenges these assertions. Here, I present a linguistic critique of the JW interpretation, focusing on the claim that "prototokos" is intrinsically a partitive word.

Critique of the "Partitive Word" Argument

Lack of Linguistic Evidence
The central issue with the "partitive word" argument is the lack of linguistic evidence to substantiate the claim that "prototokos" intrinsically possesses a partitive semantic value. To prove that "prototokos" inherently conveys a partitive force, proponents need to demonstrate this from the lexical semantics of the isolated term.

Misunderstanding Lexical Semantics and Pragmatics

Lexical Semantics vs. Pragmatics: The partitive force may arise from the pragmatic context, not from the intrinsic meaning of the word "prototokos." It is crucial to differentiate between a word's inherent meaning (lexical semantics) and meanings derived from context (pragmatics).

Contextual Influence: Advocates need to show that the partitive force is not an implicature conveyed by the context in each instance. If the context provides the partitive sense, it does not prove that "prototokos" intrinsically has this meaning.

Methodological Issues

Scientific Approach: Furuli endorses a scientific approach to linguistic analysis, breaking down language into its smallest units for study. However, the claim that "prototokos" has an intrinsic partitive value is non-testable and falls outside scientific investigation. It cannot be empirically verified or falsified.

Isolating the Term: To prove "prototokos" is a partitive word, it must be isolated from its context and shown to convey partitive meaning independently. This has not been achieved. Theological Implications and Scriptural Context

Non-Numerical Usage in Scripture
Several examples from Scripture show that "prototokos" can denote status or rank, not necessarily "first in time":

Isaac and Ishmael: Isaac, though not the firstborn, is called Abraham's "monogenes" (unique son) in Hebrews 11:17.

Ephraim and Manasseh: Ephraim is called the firstborn in Jeremiah 31:9 despite being born after Manasseh.

David: David, the youngest son of Jesse, is called the firstborn in Psalm 89:27, indicating his preeminent status.

Christ's Pre-eminence Colossians 1:15-20 emphasizes Christ's pre-eminence over creation, not His inclusion as part of it:

Prototokos in Context: The term highlights Christ's supremacy and authority. Paul uses "prototokos" to indicate pre-eminence rather than temporal priority.

Paul's Choice of Terms: Paul would have used "protoktistos" (first-created) if he intended to convey that Jesus was the first created being. The arguments presented by JWs regarding Colossians 1:15 are based on a misinterpretation of "prototokos." The term does not intrinsically convey a partitive semantic value. Scriptural evidence and theological context support the understanding of "firstborn" as denoting Christ's pre-eminence and status. This aligns with the broader biblical narrative of Christ's divine identity and role in creation.

The Watchtower Society's interpretation of Colossians 1:15, which describes Jesus as "the firstborn of all creation," is flawed for several reasons:

Genitive Construction: The genitive phrase "firstborn of all creation" does not imply that Jesus is part of creation. Similar phrases like "Lord of worlds" or "king of the country" denote dominion, not membership.

Preeminence: "Firstborn" signifies preeminence or a unique relationship with the Father, not that Jesus was created. This title means Jesus is the supreme heir and ruler over creation.

Rabbinical Context: In Jewish tradition, titles like "firstborn of the world" (בכורו של עולם, bekoro shel olam) and "primordial one of the world" (קדמונו של עולם, qadmono shel olam) are used for God, indicating preeminence and sovereignty. An educated Jew would understand Paul's usage as asserting Jesus' divine status, not his creation.

Scriptural Consistency: The broader context of Colossians 1, particularly verses 16-17, shows Jesus as the agent of creation, reinforcing His preeminence and excluding the interpretation that He is a created being. The text states all things were created in Him, through Him, and for Him.

Biblical Examples: The term "firstborn" in the Bible often indicates rank and privilege. David, though the youngest son, is called "firstborn" due to his preeminent position (Psalm 89:27). This supports the interpretation of "firstborn" as indicating status rather than chronological order.

The term "firstborn of all creation" in Colossians 1:15 indicates Jesus' supreme authority and preeminence over all creation. It does not imply that He is part of creation but rather that He is its sovereign Lord. This interpretation aligns with the broader scriptural context and Jewish understanding of the term.

In light of these findings, it is essential to approach the Bible with an open mind and honor the full identity of Christ as revealed in Scripture. This includes recognizing the comprehensive nature of the divine relationship within the Trinity and valuing the Son "just as" the Father (John 5:23).

See the entire examination in the attached .txt document

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

The Authority of God John the Baptist had been Given to baptize:

Mark 11:27; "And they come again to Jerusalem: and as He was walking in the Temple,
there come to Him the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders,

28; "And say unto Him, By what authority doest thou these things?
and who gave thee this authority to do these things?

29; "And Jesus Answered and said unto them,
I Will also Ask of you one question, and answer Me, and I Will Tell you by what Authority I do these things.

30; "The baptism of John, was it from Heaven, or of men? answer Me.

31; "And they reasoned with themselves, saying,
If we shall say, From Heaven; He will say, Why then did ye not believe Him?
32; "But if we shall say, Of men; they feared the people: for all men counted John, that he was a Prophet indeed.

33; "And they answered and said unto Jesus, We cannot tell.
And Jesus Answering Saith unto them, Neither do I Tell you by What Authority I do these things."

Alan, John the Baptist was not a Christian.

Every individual soul that has ever been Saved have all been Christians,
since the Time Adam was Given Repentance and Faith to believe,
"And I Will Put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;
it shall Bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His Heel," in Genesis 3:15,
as the Gospel was Preached to him and Eve and God also Pictured it by sleighing an animal to make them coverings.

"Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God Make coats of skins, and clothed them." Genesis 3:21.

"The Life of the flesh is in the blood." Leviticus 17:11.

The Old Testament is simply Old Testament Christianity.

He baptized Israel.

1. Matthew 3:1-2 - John preached in the wilderness, calling for repentance as the kingdom of heaven was near.
2. Mark 1:4 - He baptized people in the Jordan River, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
3. Luke 3:7-8 - John warned the crowds to bear fruits worthy of repentance and not rely on their heritage as children of Abraham.
4. John 1:29 - He identified Jesus as the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world = Christianity.
5. Matthew 3:11 - John spoke of baptizing with water, but Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire.
6. Luke 3:16 - He emphasized the Greatness of Jesus, stating he was not worthy to untie His sandals.

"Christ continued in Nazareth till near the time of His baptism, and Entrance on His Public Ministry; and proceeds to give a brief relation of John, the Harbinger and Forerunner of Christ, and the Administrator of baptism to Him:

"and He describes him by his name John, in Hebrew "Jochanan", which signifies "gracious", or "the grace of the Lord", or "the Lord has given grace"; which agrees with him, both as a good man, on whom the Lord had Bestowed much Grace, and as a preacher, whose business it was to Publish the Grace of God in Christ, Luke 16:16.

"The Law and the Prophets were until John:
since that Time the Kingdom of God is Preached, and every man presseth into it."

He is described by his work and office as a preacher, he "came" or "was preaching" the Doctrines of Repentance and baptism; he published and declared that the Kingdom of the Messiah was at hand, that He would quickly be Revealed; and exhorted the people to believe on Jesus, which is what the Gospel and Christianity are all about.

There was no church during his days of ministry.

Everyone who was Scripturally baptized according to the Commandment and Example of Lord, by the man John the Baptist, who was a man Sent by God to baptize by God's Authority were water baptized into a local organized church body's membership, like the one the Lord Founded and Continued to Build there in Jerusalem, to which had the Scripturally baptized Apostles by John the Baptist's Authority from God ADDED TO HER MEMBERSHIP, FIRST, AND THAT WAS THE BEGINNING OF THE LORD'S FIRST CHURCH HE DIVINELY ORIGINATED.

"And God hath Set some in the church, first Apostles,..." I Corinthians 12:28.

God Puts certain individual Saved souls into specific churches of the Lord Jesus, as they are Led by One Spirit to be water baptized by Authority into her to become one of her members;

18; "But now hath God set (by the Holy Spirit)
the members every one of them in the body, (their local church body)
as it hath Pleased Him.

Those assembled gatherings of Saved and Scripturally baptized saints, as "members in particular"
then make up what the Bible call a "body of Christ"; just like the body of Christ in Corinth, or Colossae, or Ephesus, etc.

Paul explains explicitly what he has been talking about that a "body" is;
27; "Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular."
locally there in Corinth.

That's what a 'body' of Christ is, according to what the Bible says a 'body of Christ' is.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

The Christian faith is founded upon the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Jesus' Saving Efficacy was able to Produce all of the Born Again Old Testament saints, to be Old Testament Christians,
because Jesus' Saving Ability and Power were His to Give, as His Accomplishment of the Eternal Plan of Salvation by the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, before He went to the cross,
because it was He Who was always as, "the Lamb Slain from the Foundation of the World."

"And all that dwell upon the Earth shall worship him (the beast),
whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb Slain from the Foundation of the World,"
Revelation 13:8.

"In the Blessings of The Eternal Covenant of Grace;
they are the same under both Administrations, of the Old and New Testaments.

"Salvation and Redemption by Christ is the Great Blessing held forth
and enjoyed under the Old Testament as under the New Testament, #2Sa 23:5 Heb 9:15.

"Justification by the Righteousness of Christ, which the Old Testament saints
who faithfully assembled as they had been Commanded had knowledge of,
and Faith in Justification by the Righteousness of Christ , as well as the New Testament saints,
#Isa 45:24,25 Ro 3:21-23.

"Forgiveness of sin through Faith in Christ, all the Prophets bore witness to;
and the saints ofthe Old Testament, as the saints do now in the New Testament,
had as comfortable an application of it, #Ps 32:1,5 Isa 43:25 Mic 7:18 Ac 10:43.

"Regeneration, Spiritual Circumcision, and Sanctification,
were what men were made Partakers of under the First Administration of the Eternal Covenant of Grace,
in the Old Testament, as we are under the Second Administration of the Covenant, in the New Testament,
#De 30:6 Php 3:3.

"Eternal Life was made known in the writings of the Old Testament, as well as in those of the New Testament;
and was believed, looked for, and expected by the saints of the Former Administration,
as of the Latter Administration, #Joh 5:39 Heb 11:10,16 Job 19:26,27.

"In a word, they and we eat the same Spiritual Meat, and Drink the same Spiritual Drink,
because they Drank of that Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ, #1Co 10:3,4."

His By Grace--"John Gill: A Body of Doctrinal & Practical Divinity"-Doctrinal Book 4, Chapter 1

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Colossians 1:18​

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.​

18 And He (Jesus) is the Head of the body, the church:​

(Jesus is Head over His bodies, the churches)​

(And it is Jesus) Who is the Beginning,​

(And Jesus is also) the Firstborn from the dead;​

that in all things He (Jesus) might have the Preeminence."​

Could you please point out what relationship you think there is between Jesus being the Head of each of His church bodies and when it was that Jesus church had its beginning, based on those words there in that verse.