The best question…

[canadyjd]

You must require someone to point out your logical errors as you do not see them for yourself. You do not seem to understand context or you would not make the errors.

That fact you ignore John 3:16 is telling.

John 3 contains more verses than just 1-8. If you want to understand what John was saying you need to consider all the verses. Even if we leave aside John 3:16 and just consider Jesus' response to Nicodemus, John 3:9-15, it shows the error of your position.

We do not see the wind but we can see the effect of the wind just as we can not see the Holy Spirit but we can see the effect of the Holy Spirit in a persons life.

You obviously believe just because you say something that makes it true, regardless of the truth of scripture.

Go away. Your posts are unedifying.

Your pre-existing secular philosophy leads you constantly into biblical error.

Like Nicodemus, you see yourself as a teacher but cannot understand spiritual things, nor can understand the concept of context in scripture.

peace to you

 

[Darrell C]

Gosh, what a looongggg response.

It's okay, though.

And that's 'generally' wrong.

'Regeneration' is corporate. Christianity, the New Covenant, IS 'the regeneration' [Matthew 19:28], the kingdom of God/heaven/Christ [2 Peter 1:11], the 'building again' of the house of David [Acts of the Apostles 15:14-18], the Church that Christ built [Matthew 16:18].

You are confusing a salvific work of God with a specific prophetic event, The Regeneration, which is a reference to the Millennial Kingdom:

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

It is not likely that one is going to be washed by an Age, that one might enter into that Age.

Secondly, this places regeneration as a future event. While The Regeneration is, regeneration takes place at the moment of salvation.

To be able to discern 'the regeneration' one must first be 'born from above' [Galatians 4:26]:

3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;` Jn 3 YLT

I would agree that when the Lord speaks of "the Kingdom" in John 3 it is a direct reference to the Millennial Kingdom, rather than Heaven. The reason being, the Mystery of Christ and the "Kingdom" of His saints is not yet being disclosed.

Secondly, I would point out that he does not say one must be regenerated to see the Regeneration, nor would that make sense.

Third, even if the above were true, we are still dealing with two different topics (regeneration and The Regeneration) and you are trying to make the same thing (and I base this on your previous posts, and the comment "... there are only two references to regeneration." So you will need to make up your mind.

...and to actually enter in to 'the regeneration' one must not only be born from above but washed with the water of the word (read gospel) [Ephesians 5:25-26]:


5 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God; Jn 3 YLT

Again, part of the same process, regeneration. You are born of water and then born of the Spirit, you are born of water and of the Spirit.

I've mulled over and waffled over the years what 'born of water' means and have basically settled that it jibes with:

24 For I will take you from among the nations, and gather you out of all the countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 And I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
29 And I will save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the grain, and will multiply it, and lay no famine upon you. Ezekiel 36

5 not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, Titus 3

This doesn't really show what it is you have settled on.

And I would point out that in Titus 3, we see that the washing is part of regeneration.

As something to consider, I would suggest to you that the water in view is the Word of God. The cleansing is the washing of the water of the Word.

Consider also ...

1 Peter 1

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Now, to say one is born again by the Word of God is the same as being born of God. All of these refer to the Doctrine of Regeneration.

IOW, I believe in order to be 'regenerated', to enter into the regeneration, one must first and foremost be 'born from above', and then save themselves from their former vain manner of life through obedience to the gospel and faith in Jesus Christ.

So one is born again so they can be regenerated? Again, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but this is not a teaching of Calvinism.

And you can blame the length of this post on yourself.




God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

'Regeneration' is corporate.

I wanted to comment on this again: Regeneration is not corporate, but an individual event in the life of an unbeliever that receives Jesus Christ.


Titus 3:4-5
King James Version

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


Here we have a reference to regeneration, and in order for it to be corporate we would have to say that all who are saved are saved before they are saved. There is a definite time in the life of a believer in which they change from the natural man to the regenerate man. From old to new.



2 Corinthians 5:17-19
King James Version

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


To become "in Christ" shows a different state of being. He is a new creature, not what he was born as.

Secondly, we consider that salvation includes our reconciliation. This too is an individual event in the life of the natural man who is born into this world separated from God.

Reconciliation was accomplished by Christ through the Cross. No man was reconciled to God prior to the Atonement. It simply wasn't possible.


God bless.

 

[kyredneck]

The Regeneration, which is a reference to the Millennial Kingdom:

Yes, which we are in right now.

 

[37818]

John 1:7
The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John 1:9, That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Hebrews 1:3, Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; . . .

 

[Darrell C]

24 For I will take you from among the nations, and gather you out of all the countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 And I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
29 And I will save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the grain, and will multiply it, and lay no famine upon you. Ezekiel 36

This passage is another example of the prophetic nature of Eternal Redemption and the fact that being born of God was a future event for the Old Testament Saint.

Elements of New Birth (Regeneration) are mentioned/promised: cleansing, a new heart, a new spirit (ours, most likely a reference to our point of view, basically, rather than the immaterial aspect of our selves), and God placing His Spirit within us.

While the Holy Spirit did "fill" men and women in the Old Testament, he did not indwell them on a permanent, eternal basis as is promised in both Old and New Testament prophecy.

While this passage has relevance to the Millennial Kingdom, we remember that the Mystery of Christ is not being revealed, and that it is relevant to both Israel and the Church.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Yes, which we are in right now.

Quite impossible.

The Millennial Kingdom is stated as a thousand year period. The Church has been in existence for roughly 2,000 years now.

While I understand some view Revelation 20 without embracing it as literal, the fact remains that a literal view is the only view that maintain consistency with all other prophecy.

For your consideration:


Ezekiel 39

4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.

6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the Lord.

7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel.

8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord God; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God.

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.


This refers to the same event we see here:

Revelation 19

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


Ezekiel makes it clear that there is a physical kingdom after God's judgment. This has not taken place yet, and when it does, the Tribulation will conclude with the Sheep and Goat Judgment, which will take place in the 75 days Daniel 12 refers to. At this time the Millennial Kingdom will be established, and Scripture will be fulfilled as it always is.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

John 1:9, That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Hebrews 1:3, Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; . . .

Exactly! It is Christ that enlightens men.

Men are without light when they are without Christ.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

I have enjoyed it, see you guys tomorrow God willing.


God bless.

 

[kyredneck]

Regeneration is not corporate

The regeneration, the kingdom, the Church that Christ built, the rebuilt House of David, the New Covenant, is composed of many 'regenerates'. 'The regeneration' is corporate in every sense of the word.

4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: Ezek 37

5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), Eph 2

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1 Pet 1

16 After these things I will return, And I will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen; And I will build again the ruins thereof, And I will set it up: Acts 15

18 And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. Mt 16

9 who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal, 2 Tim 1

3 seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue; 2 Pe 1

18 Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. Ja 1

 

[canadyjd]

I've already shown you you one passage, Colossians 1:25-27. The indwelling of Christ is regeneration. That is why we have new life, because we have the life of Christ. Something we have not had before. I take that back, I think I presented James 1:18 as well: being born of God is regeneration.

The fact that the word regeneration isn't mentioned doesn't negate the fact that regeneration is in view.

Here's another one:


1 Peter 1:3-5
King James Version

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


And another:

1 Peter 1

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


The New Birth is Regeneration, and is accomplished through the eternal indwelling of God through which we receive eternal life, because we are placed in Him and receive His Life.


God bless.

IMO, you are confusing regeneration by God Holy Spirit .with the indwelling God Holy Spirit.

Th regeneration, logically, comes prior to faith. The indwelling Holy Spirit comes either prior to, or simultaneously with faith

peace to you

 

[tyndale1946]

IMO, you are confusing regeneration by God Holy Spirit .with the indwelling God Holy Spirit.

Th regeneration, logically, comes prior to faith. The indwelling Holy Spirit comes either prior to, or simultaneously with faith

peace to you

If you are not regenerated you can produce no fruit, if you can you've been regenerated... Brother Glen

Galatians 55:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[canadyjd]

Gosh, what a looongggg response.

It's okay, though.






You are confusing a salvific work of God with a specific prophetic event, The Regeneration, which is a reference to the Millennial Kingdom:

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

It is not likely that one is going to be washed by an Age, that one might enter into that Age.

Secondly, this places regeneration as a future event. While The Regeneration is, regeneration takes place at the moment of salvation.



I would agree that when the Lord speaks of "the Kingdom" in John 3 it is a direct reference to the Millennial Kingdom, rather than Heaven. The reason being, the Mystery of Christ and the "Kingdom" of His saints is not yet being disclosed.

Secondly, I would point out that he does not say one must be regenerated to see the Regeneration, nor would that make sense.

Third, even if the above were true, we are still dealing with two different topics (regeneration and The Regeneration) and you are trying to make the same thing (and I base this on your previous posts, and the comment "... there are only two references to regeneration." So you will need to make up your mind.



Again, part of the same process, regeneration. You are born of water and then born of the Spirit, you are born of water and of the Spirit.



This doesn't really show what it is you have settled on.

And I would point out that in Titus 3, we see that the washing is part of regeneration.

As something to consider, I would suggest to you that the water in view is the Word of God. The cleansing is the washing of the water of the Word.

Consider also ...

1 Peter 1

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Now, to say one is born again by the Word of God is the same as being born of God. All of these refer to the Doctrine of Regeneration.




So one is born again so they can be regenerated? Again, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but this is not a teaching of Calvinism.

And you can blame the length of this post on yourself.




God bless.

Pot meet kettle

peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

You obviously believe just because you say something that makes it true, regardless of the truth of scripture.

Go away. Your posts are unedifying.

Your pre-existing secular philosophy leads you constantly into biblical error.

Like Nicodemus, you see yourself as a teacher but cannot understand spiritual things, nor can understand the concept of context in scripture.

peace to you

I am not surprised that you would like me to go away, you do not like it that I continue to point out your logical errors.

You seem to think you are the fount of correct biblical understanding. Hate to burst your bubble but you are not.

Try reading scripture without your calvinist/reformed/PB glasses, you may actually learn something.

Nicodemus had objected to the doctrine because he did not understand how it could be. Jesus shows him that he ought not to reject it on that account, for he constantly believed things quite as difficult. It might appear incomprehensible, but it was to be judged of by its effects. As in this case of the wind, the effects were seen, the sound was heard, important changes were produced by it, trees and clouds were moved, yet the wind is not seen, nor do we know whence it comes, nor by what laws it is governed; so it is with the operations of the Spirit. We see the changes produced. Barnes

Jesus used the wind as an illustration of the work of the Holy Spirit....As the wind seemingly blows where it wills, so the Holy Spirit sovereignly works. Likewise, no one knows the origin or destination of the wind, but everyone knows it is there. The same is true of the Holy Spirit. Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Commentary

@canadyjd you are so locked in your philosophy that your refuse to see the truth right in front of you.

I do not see myself as a teacher but rather as one that points people to the teacher, the Holy Spirit.

 

[canadyjd]

I am not surprised that you would like me to go away, you do not like it that I continue to point out your logical errors.

You seem to think you are the fount of correct biblical understanding. Hate to burst your bubble but you are not.

Try reading scripture without your calvinist/reformed/PB glasses, you may actually learn something.

Nicodemus had objected to the doctrine because he did not understand how it could be. Jesus shows him that he ought not to reject it on that account, for he constantly believed things quite as difficult. It might appear incomprehensible, but it was to be judged of by its effects. As in this case of the wind, the effects were seen, the sound was heard, important changes were produced by it, trees and clouds were moved, yet the wind is not seen, nor do we know whence it comes, nor by what laws it is governed; so it is with the operations of the Spirit. We see the changes produced. Barnes

Jesus used the wind as an illustration of the work of the Holy Spirit....As the wind seemingly blows where it wills, so the Holy Spirit sovereignly works. Likewise, no one knows the origin or destination of the wind, but everyone knows it is there. The same is true of the Holy Spirit. Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Commentary

@canadyjd you are so locked in your philosophy that your refuse to see the truth right in front of you.

I do not see myself as a teacher but rather as one that points people to the teacher, the Holy Spirit.

In the John 3, the “operations” of God Holy Spirit are directly linked to how mankind is “born again”.

Again, you have not produced verses in John 3 that say God Holy Spirit “responded” the what men do, as you confidently stated, in order to be born again.

Obviously, you are reading your bias into the passage. When this truth is pointed out, you go into your “attack Calvinism” mode, which is really all you do.

So again, please go away. Your posts are unedifying. Your posts are gaslighting. Your contribute only hatred toward God’s grace and confusion toward what scripture teaches.

Now, if possible, back to the OP!

If someone believes more people are going to hell because of “slacking soul winners”, why are they spending so much time on the BB attacking other Christians because they have a different view of scripture?

Are you attacking those who hold to the doctrines of grace because you believe they hold to a “different gospel” and they are unsaved and you are trying to “win” the souls to Christ?

peace to you

 

[Darrell C]

The regeneration, the kingdom, the Church that Christ built, the rebuilt House of David, the New Covenant, is composed of many 'regenerates'. 'The regeneration' is corporate in every sense of the word.

Just because the Church is one body does not make the event of regeneration a corporate act.

I was born again in 1885. You?

4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: Ezek 37

This is a description of the "resurrection" of Israel. It will take place at the establishment of the Millennial Kingdom.

This is one passage Nicodemus should have immediately considered when the Lord said "Ye must be born again." Rather than a physical birth.

While I am tempted to address each verse, I know you prefer a shorter response, so I will simply say this: it is usually someone that is already born again that evangelizes those that are not. Regeneration is the new birth, and new birth is an individual process taking place within each believer at the time of their conversion.

"The Regeneration" is a reference to the Kingdom Christ will establish at his return. This will include a physical restoration of the Earth. Many, myself included, believe that the Earth will revert to a more Edenesque condition such as was found in the Garden.

God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

IMO, you are confusing regeneration by God Holy Spirit .with the indwelling God Holy Spirit.

They are one and the same. We are born again (meaning we have new life) because we are placed in God and He in us. The two cannot be separated.

John 14

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.


The eternal union between the Father and the Son is not shared by man at the time of this discourse.


16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


The "Comforter" the disciples have at this time is Christ, the Consolation of Israel. He will, after returning to Heaven, send "another" Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, and at that time they will be indwelt (not filled) by God. God will be in them—rather than "with them (v.17).


19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.


The Lord isn't referring to His current "living," this is a reference to His Resurrection, and an implication of the coming resurrection believers will receive. We will be risen with Christ.

The implication of "... ye shall live also" is this: the disciples do not at this time have the "life" Christ is referring to.


20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.


They did not know this then because it had not yet happened. When it did, as v.17 states, God would be in them, rather than "with them."


21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.


Having and keeping his commandments is a proof, rather than a condition.


22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


So in this passage we see the indwelling of the Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

In the Old Testament the Spirit of God certainly ministered in the lives of believers, but He did not indwell them in an eternal union as we now have through the New Covenant. Nor did He reveal to them the Mystery of the Gospel of Christ.

So back to ...

IMO, you are confusing regeneration by God Holy Spirit .with the indwelling God Holy Spirit.

Your focus is central on the Holy Ghost, but our Union with Him is the indwelling of the Trinity, as taught by Christ in the above passage.

Today, just a in the Old Testament, believers can be "filled with the Holy Ghost," which is an empowering ministry God has always performed, but we are always indwelt. Those are the two ministries which, in my view, thrown into confusion by most. It is because of this confusion our charismatic brethren view the Baptism with the Holy Ghost as a subsequent event in the life of the believer. However, this is a reference to being baptized into Christ. We are placed in Him, and He in us.

Again, those two actions are one, and cannot be separated. Consider the disciples just prior to Pentecost:



Acts 1:4-5
King James Version

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.


We know the disciples had already been empowered for preaching, teaching, healing, casting out devils, etc. But what had not yet happened was their being baptized into Christ, which could not take place until the Comforter was sent, which could not take place until Christ returned:


John 16:7-8
King James Version

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:


That is the day they would know Christ was in the Father, the Father in Him, and He in them.

That is the moment of the New Birth: when we receive the Life God sent His Son to bestow:


John 3:14-16
King James Version

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Until believers were baptized into Christ—they did not have this Eternal Life. We cannot argue with Scripture, which makes it clear, this is the purpose of Christ's coming.

Th regeneration, logically, comes prior to faith. The indwelling Holy Spirit comes either prior to, or simultaneously with faith

Regeneration is receiving New Life. The Life of God. We receive that life when we hear the Gospel and believe. It is just my opinion that when the Comforter ministers to the unbeliever, they believe regardless, and those who do not actively reject the Gospel are born again.

We are saved by grace through faith, and faith cometh by the hearing of the Word. When we are regenerate—we are saved. It is illogical to suppose that one can be saved before we are saved.

peace to you

And to you.


God bless.

 

[Silverhair]

In the John 3, the “operations” of God Holy Spirit are directly linked to how mankind is “born again”.

Again, you have not produced verses in John 3 that say God Holy Spirit “responded” the what men do, as you confidently stated, in order to be born again.

Obviously, you are reading your bias into the passage. When this truth is pointed out, you go into your “attack Calvinism” mode, which is really all you do.

So again, please go away. Your posts are unedifying. Your posts are gaslighting. Your contribute only hatred toward God’s grace and confusion toward what scripture teaches.

Now, if possible, back to the OP!

If someone believes more people are going to hell because of “slacking soul winners”, why are they spending so much time on the BB attacking other Christians because they have a different view of scripture?

Are you attacking those who hold to the doctrines of grace because you believe they hold to a “different gospel” and they are unsaved and you are trying to “win” the souls to Christ?

peace to you

You are looking at scripture through a broken glass so the view you see is distorted. John 3:8 is making a comparison between the effect of the wind on what we can see and the effect of the Holy Spirit on what we cannot see. We can know this from the connector language used "so is". We do not see the wind but we do see the effect of it just as we do not see the Holy Spirit but we do see the effect of His indwelling.

Have you not read John 3:16? That verse is clear that the Holy Spirit responds to those that believe "whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Condition "believe" response of the Holy Spirit salvation "have eternal life"

Are you going to say that because the words Holy Spirit were not in the verse then it is not the Holy Spirit that responds. That is just playing word games @canadyjd. I do expect more honesty from a Christian.

The bias that is on display here would be yours, the biblical text is clear enough but you refuse to see it as it does not fit your philosophy. If you want to hold to that philosophy then do it but do not expect others to just go along with your view. What you call attacking is me just being a good steward in pointing out the errors that you hold to.

There you go making assumptions about me and what I think. I am not saying that those that hold to calvinism in it's various forms are not saved.We are all saved thriugh faith in the living God. The error of calvinism is that they believe that man does not have to believe prior to salvation.

 

[kyredneck]

I was born again in 1885. You?

That was a good year for smart alecs.

This is a description of the "resurrection" of Israel. It will take place at the establishment of the Millennial Kingdom.

The veil of Moses was removed and I left Sensationalism with it's accompanying Zionism many years ago.

This is one passage Nicodemus should have immediately considered when the Lord said "Ye must be born again." Rather than a physical birth.

Nicodemus mistook Christ's use of anothen to mean 'again' when Christ meant 'above'.

While I am tempted to address each verse, I know you prefer a shorter response, so I will simply say this:

I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates the reduced bloviation.

Regeneration is the new birth

Regeneration is the creation of the new creature of the new covenant which is 'the regeneration'. It is not the birth from Jerusalem above which pertains to every saint that ever was, old and new.

"The Regeneration" is a reference to the Kingdom Christ will establish at his return. This will include a physical restoration of the Earth. Many, myself included, believe that the Earth will revert to a more Edenesque condition such as was found in the Garden.

...totally ignoring Luke 17:20-24 (along with others) as if it's not there.

 

[Darrell C]

That was a good year for smart alecs.

Oh, you were born again in that year too?

What a coincidence!

The veil of Moses was removed and I left Sensationalism with it's accompanying Zionism many years ago.

I'm sorry to hear that you have left the teachings of Prophecy as found in the Bible. Be glad to discuss this from Scripture, but I hate to see you, like most, get frustrated, upset, and end up having to put me on ignore because you get lost in the subject.

Nicodemus mistook Christ's use of anothen to mean 'again' when Christ meant 'above'.

What makes you think the Lord was speaking Greek?

Next argument ...

I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates the reduced bloviation.

To be sure, lol.

I sure do miss some of the people that used to be here.

Regeneration is the creation of the new creature of the new covenant which is 'the regeneration'. It is not the birth from Jerusalem above which pertains to every saint that ever was, old and new.

Could you explain to me how exactly your judgment of the Twelve Tribes is going?

...totally ignoring Luke 17:20-24 (along with others) as if it's not there.

Well—it isn't!

Luke 17:20-24
King James Version

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.

24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.


There, that's better.

So perhaps you will describe Christ's Return to those of us who were unfortunate enough to miss it? Was it really like the lightning?

And why is it that the Sheep and Goat Judgment didn't take place?

How is it that the deaths of all unbelievers didn't take place?

Clearly the Kingdom will have certain observable aspects when it comes, though the Kingdom itself does not. Christ's Return is the primary issue I would like you to explain. Revelation describes His Return on a white horse, and death unimaginable for unbelievers.

Was John speaking in error?


God bless.