The best question…

[canadyjd]

Once again the Calvinist tries to change the subject to my attitude, based on mind reading. Folks, just read my post #34, and the actual word of God presented, i.e. 1 Corinthians 9:22.

At the heart of the issue is not anyone claiming to speak for God, a false claim used to deflect, but whether or not lost people can be receptive to our witness, which of course Calvinism denies, i.e. the "T" of the TULIP.

Ask yourselves why all these efforts at deflection derived from deceit, rather than addressing the two very different views of the effectiveness of evangelism.

Your every post reveals ignorance of God’s Word and the teachings of the doctrines of Grace which are based on God’s Word.

Please answer the question of the OP if you have any intellectual integrity at all….

If you really believe, @Van, as you have stated repeatedly, that many folks won’t make it to heaven because of a lack of “soul winners” bringing people into the kingdom….

WHY ARE YOU wasting all your time starting threads on the BB to discredit the doctrines of grace?

Don’t you realize people are going to hell, according to your philosophy, because of this waste of time? Don’t you care about the lost?

OR…. is your only purpose to make your views known to others?

peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

There you go again, dishonestly twisting other's words.That's NOT at all what @tyndale1946 intended. 'Saved' (sozo) in the passage is being saved/rescued/delivered from literal shipwreck in this temporal realm, as opposed to eternity.

Your perpetual dishonesty disgusts me.

KY your are just showing your foolish side again. Did you not see the five points @tyndale1946 had in his post. That is what I was responding to but I can understand why you ignore that as you continue to ignore any scripture that points out the error of your philosophy.

So you need to look in the mirror if you want to see the person that is being dishonest.

Take off the calvinist glasses and actually read what the bible says, you may learn something.

 

[canadyjd]

How can you have an actual personal faith if that faith has to be given to you? You had nothing to do with the faith you call your personal faith.

Plus when you look at what calvinism posits since you have nothing to do with your salvation how can you know for sure you are saved? You have to hope that God actually picked you out before the foundation of the world.

That is the situation that the calvinist philosophy put you in.

The purpose of this OP is NOT to discuss your perversion of the doctrines of grace, but to discuss a specific topic. Try to stay focused.

If someone really believes many folks end up in hell because of a lack of “soul wintering”, why are they wasting time posting on the BB?

Since you believe many are saved having never heard the gospel, surely you don’t think folks won’t make it to heaven because of a lack of “soul winners”, do you?

Respond to the OP, or start your own thread.

peace to you

 

[kyredneck]

Acts 27:31 Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved.

Now does anyone really believe that this is talking about eternal salvation?... Brother Glen

Why would anyone think that Act 27:31 relates to eternal salvation?

For the same reason shallow minded evangelicals such as you would, that take 'sozo' to mean eternal salvation in passages such as these (to cite a few):

16 Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt save both thyself and them that hear thee 1 Tim 4.

1 Brethren, my heart`s desire and my supplication to God is for them, that they may be saved. Ro 10

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16

40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pet 3

 

[Silverhair]

The purpose of this OP is NOT to discuss your perversion of the doctrines of grace, but to discuss a specific topic. Try to stay focused.

If someone really believes many folks end up in hell because of a lack of “soul wintering”, why are they wasting time posting on the BB?

Since you believe many are saved having never heard the gospel, surely you don’t think folks won’t make it to heaven because of a lack of “soul winners”, do you?

Respond to the OP, or start your own thread.

peace to you

Your allusion to "soul winning" opened up to line for pointing out the error of your philosophy. The question is why are you as a calvinist/reformed/PB wasting your time on BB if you think that everyone that will be saved has been determined before creation. Do you think God needs you to aid Him in reaching your so called "elect"? But you could say that God has determined that we do this.

Now the reason that we actually do try to, in your words, "soul win" is because we are commanded to do so. We see this clearly stated in Rom 10:14 "How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?"

As for those that never hear the gospel message, it seems you do not actually trust God to save those that trust in Him. The bible tells us that we can know there is a God through creation and the conviction of the Holy Spirit but it seem you do not believe this.

I am surprised that you would disagree that many are saved having never heard the gospel since you think you were saved without having faith. Remember it is your philosophy that says man has nothing, not even faith, to do with ones salvation. You call faith a work and say man is not saved by works so logically your salvation does not require man to have faith in God prior to salvation.

Your philosophy says you were saved prior to creation so it could not be because you had faith as you do not even exist at the time. So to answer your question again, why are "soul winners" on BB? So that we can show you that have a misunderstanding of the means of salvation what the biblical truth is.

 

[Silverhair]

For the same reason shallow minded evangelicals such as you would, that take 'sozo' to mean eternal salvation in passages such as these (to cite a few):

16 Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt save both thyself and them that hear thee 1 Tim 4.

1 Brethren, my heart`s desire and my supplication to God is for them, that they may be saved. Ro 10

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16

40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pet 3

KY it is obvious that you do have a problem with understanding scripture. You do not seem to grasp the difference between being saved from drowning Act 27:31 and salvation from the penalty of your sins as we see in the verses you posted.

As long as you continue to read scripture through the lens of your calvinist/reformed/PB philosophy you will not grasp the truths contained in the bible.

 

[canadyjd]

Your allusion to "soul winning" opened up to line for pointing out the error of your philosophy. The question is why are you as a calvinist/reformed/PB wasting your time on BB if you think that everyone that will be saved has been determined before creation. Do you think God needs you to aid Him in reaching your so called "elect"? But you could say that God has determined that we do this.

Now the reason that we actually do try to, in your words, "soul win" is because we are commanded to do so. We see this clearly stated in Rom 10:14 "How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?"

As for those that never hear the gospel message, it seems you do not actually trust God to save those that trust in Him. The bible tells us that we can know there is a God through creation and the conviction of the Holy Spirit but it seem you do not believe this.

I am surprised that you would disagree that many are saved having never heard the gospel since you think you were saved without having faith. Remember it is your philosophy that says man has nothing, not even faith, to do with ones salvation. You call faith a work and say man is not saved by works so logically your salvation does not require man to have faith in God prior to salvation.

Your philosophy says you were saved prior to creation so it could not be because you had faith as you do not even exist at the time. So to answer your question again, why are "soul winners" on BB? So that we can show you that have a misunderstanding of the means of salvation what the biblical truth is.

You are incapable of understanding the doctrines of grace and shall forever misrepresent what I believe, even though I have repeatedly explained it to you.

Conversation with you is the biggest waste of time on this board.

Please go away. Quit trying to hijack this thread with your ignorance and deliberate misrepresentation.

BYW, I’m not upset with you. I simply pity you, but dealing with your misrepresentation simply isn’t worth the time.

peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

You are incapable of understanding the doctrines of grace and shall forever misrepresent what I believe, even though I have repeatedly explained it to you.

Conversation with you is the biggest waste of time on this board.

Please go away. Quit trying to hijack this thread with your ignorance and deliberate misrepresentation.

BYW, I’m not upset with you. I simply pity you, but dealing with your misrepresentation simply isn’t worth the time.

peace to you

It seems obvious that you do not even understand the DoG/TULIP that you claim to follow. You have surrendered yourself to an errant philosophy.

You say I misrepresent the calvinist/reformed/PB views but you have failed to show where I am supposed to have done this. You just do not like it when someone points those errors out to you.

By your logic Paul and the other apostles were just wasting their time but the bible says differently.
1Co 3:6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.
1Co 3:7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.
1Co 3:8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
1Co 3:9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

When you actually start to trust what the bible says rather than what some man tells you the bible says then you just might come to realize that you are walking down the wrong path. But I doubt you can overcome your pride.

You continue to blow and bluster but as usual provide no support for your claims.

I do not write for those calvinist's/reformed/PB's that have closed their minds to the truth of scripture but rather for those that will read my posts pointing out your errors so that they will not fall for that errant philosophy.

What you can take solace in is that according to your LBCF God has determined that I should do just what I am doing. Which begs the question, since your version of God has determined all that happens then why are you upset with me pointing out your errors?

 

[David Lamb]

You say I misrepresent the calvinist/reformed/PB views but you have failed to show where I am supposed to have done this. You just do not like it when someone points those errors out to you.

By your logic Paul and the other apostles were just wasting their time but the bible says differently.
1Co 3:6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.
1Co 3:7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.
1Co 3:8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
1Co 3:9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

I know your post wasn't directed at me, even though I do believe the doctrines of grace. However, I feel I should say that I certainly don't believe that those doctrines mean that Paul and the other apostles were just wasting their time! Quite the opposite - because they believed that it was God, and not themselves, Who caused the growth of His church, that gave them every encouragement in the face of opposition from persecutors, to carry on preaching the glorious gospel, because its "success" was not ultimately dependant on them.

 

[Van]

Your every post reveals ignorance of God’s Word and the teachings of the doctrines of Grace which are based on God’s Word.

Please answer the question of the OP if you have any intellectual integrity at all….

If you really believe, @Van, as you have stated repeatedly, that many folks won’t make it to heaven because of a lack of “soul winners” bringing people into the kingdom….

WHY ARE YOU wasting all your time starting threads on the BB to discredit the doctrines of grace?

Don’t you realize people are going to hell, according to your philosophy, because of this waste of time? Don’t you care about the lost?

OR…. is your only purpose to make your views known to others?

peace to you

Once again a Calvinist offers the same trite disparagement to deflect and change the subject to my behavior and character, rather than the topic. They all seem to be unaware their posts represent fallacious argumentation, advertising the falisity of their bogus doctrine.

At the heart of the issue is not anyone claiming to speak for God, a false claim used to deflect, but whether or not lost people can be receptive to our witness, which of course Calvinism denies, i.e. the "T" of the TULIP.

Ask yourselves why all these efforts at deflection derived from deceit, rather than addressing the two very different views of the effectiveness of evangelism.

 

[Silverhair]

I know your post wasn't directed at me, even though I do believe the doctrines of grace. However, I feel I should say that I certainly don't believe that those doctrines mean that Paul and the other apostles were just wasting their time! Quite the opposite - because they believed that it was God, and not themselves, Who caused the growth of His church, that gave them every encouragement in the face of opposition from persecutors, to carry on preaching the glorious gospel, because its "success" was not ultimately dependant on them.

Only God can save an individual and man is just one of the various means that God uses to draw man to Himself. The question asked was why "soul win" and the bible answers that clearly as I pointed out. God offers salvation to all but will only save those that believe in Him. We see this clearly stated in Eph 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith;..."

God desires all to come to Him to be saved but He will not force anyone to come to Him. Man must freely respond in faith/trust to the drawing of God. We see this clearly in scripture Rom 10:9 " that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;"

Where I see the DoG/TULIP fail is that it has taken the free offer and made it into a command for only a select few contrary to the word of God.
Joh 3:16-17 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life". "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him."

So while God has provided the various means by which man can come to know Him He will not cause/force people to come to Him.

 

[canadyjd]

Once again a Calvinist offers the same trite disparagement to deflect and change the subject to my behavior and character, rather than the topic. They all seem to be unaware their posts represent fallacious argumentation, advertising the falisity of their bogus doctrine.

At the heart of the issue is not anyone claiming to speak for God, a false claim used to deflect, but whether or not lost people can be receptive to our witness, which of course Calvinism denies, i.e. the "T" of the TULIP.

Ask yourselves why all these efforts at deflection derived from deceit, rather than addressing the two very different views of the effectiveness of evangelism.

Please answer the OP @Van.

You say people are not getting into heaven because believers are not out “soul winning”.

Since that is your belief, why are you wasting time posting on the BB?

According to your philosophy, the eternal fate of many people is up to your efforts at “soul winning”. Don’t you care that people are dying and going to hell?

You should live like you believe what you say! Anything else is pure hypocrisy. Just like the Pharisees, you are putting burdens on other Christians (as stated above; what greater burden than the eternal fate of others) that you, yourself, will not carry

Quit wasting time on the BB, or any other none “soul winning” activity and pour out your life for the cause of Christ by “winning souls” for the kingdom.

Since you are a man of Christian integrity. I expect I will never see another post from you on the BB.

peace to you

 

[Van]

Please answer the OP @Van.

You say people are not getting into heaven because believers are not out “soul winning”. SNIP

u

Folks, do you wonder why no quote is provided? Right, because I never said any such thing. This poster misrepresents others to hide the nullification of evangelism's usefulness in spreading the gospel. I

Here is actually what I said:

1 Corinthians 9:22 (NASB)
to the weak I became as weak, that I might gain [win] the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Does this verse indicate Paul, rather than God actually saves individuals? Nope The idea is through evangelism, humans aid in bringing people to an understanding of the gospel, acting as ambassadors of Christ. How might we "win" or persuade or contribute to the understanding of lost individuals? Do we talk people into Christ? Nope. God alone puts individuals whose faith He alone credits as righteousness into Christ. But we can till the ground, helping to prepare an individual to receive the gospel, and we can plant, presenting God's word concerning the gospel, and we can reinforce a lost person's consideration of the gospel by fellowship and example.

At the heart of the issue is not anyone claiming to save people, a false claim used to deflect, but whether or not lost people can be receptive to our witness, which of course Calvinism denies, i.e. the "T" of the TULIP.

The context of 1 Corinthians 9:22 indicates Paul's evangelism might contribute to the eternal salvation of some, by tilling the ground, planting and watering. Those who object do not believe evangelism actually contributes to the faith of those of the fields white for harvest. ​

 

[kyredneck]

Please answer the OP @Van.

He's interested only in entertaining his huge imaginary audience:

Folks

 

[canadyjd]

1. This is what I stated…

Please answer the OP @Van.

You say people are not getting into heaven because believers are not out “soul winning”…..

peace to you

This is how you responded

Folks, do you wonder why no quote is provided? Right, because I never said any such thing….

This is your first post in the thread you started “A Good Question”.

Here is the heart-felt question of one believer -
...do 'slacking soul-winners' result in MORE people going to hell? ...

...do diligent soul-winners result in MORE people going to heaven?….

The Scriptural answer is yes, .

Obviously, I accurately quoted what you stated.

I will wait patiently for you to apologize for accusing me of misrepresenting what you said.

I encourage you again to answer the OP…

ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN STATEMENT…You claim scripture supports your statement that…

“slacking soul winners results in more people going to hell”.

Why are you wasting time on the BB attacking other Christians that simply disagree with your theology? Don’t you care about all the lost folks going to hell because you are slacking in your soul winning efforts by wasting time posting on the BB?

peace to you

 

[Van]

He's interested only in entertaining his huge imaginary audience:

Yet another Calvinist post addressing supposed flaws in my character, rather than the topic. This seems to reflect the range of response possible due to Calvinism's false doctrines.

 

[Van]

[QUOTE="canadyjd, post: 2888373, member: 5784"
"You say people are not getting into heaven because believers are not out “soul winning”.
[/QUOTE]

What I said:

Here is the heart-felt question of one believer -
...do 'slacking soul-winners' result in MORE people going to hell? ...

...do diligent soul-winners result in MORE people going to heaven?
The Exhaustive Determinist answer is no, God determined those going to heaven, and thus the rest not going to heaven before creation.

The Scriptural answer is yes, diligent evangelism "hastens the day" thus more people per time interval, so the end of the age occurs sooner, resulting in less people not going to heaven. ​

Note how the poster "edited" my statement to make my question appear to present my view. This is these Calvinists have, deliberate misrepresentation to derail discussion of effective evangelism.

 

[canadyjd]

Here is the heart-felt question of one believer -
...do 'slacking soul-winners' result in MORE people going to hell? ...

...do diligent soul-winners result in MORE people going to heaven?
The Exhaustive Determinist answer is no, God determined those going to heaven, and thus the rest not going to heaven before creation.

The Scriptural answer is yes, diligent evangelism "hastens the day" thus more people per time interval, so the end of the age occurs sooner, resulting in less people not going to heaven. ​

Note how the poster "edited" my statement to make my question appear to present my view. This is these Calvinists have, deliberate misrepresentation to derail discussion of effective evangelism.

Against folks, @Van proves his intellectual dishonesty by pretending he didn’t say what he very clearly posted in his thread.” “A Good Question”. Quite frankly, I’d be embassies too, if I had said what he said.

It is indefensible to claim more folks are going to hell because of “slacking soul winners” on the one hand and then spend an enormous amount of time starting threads on the BB (where every person is a professing Christian) with no other purpose but to attack these other Christians because they support the doctrines of grace.

Squirm baby Squirm! You have been caught unable to live be up to the burdens you are placing on others.

If you can’t answer the question of the OP, defending your position stated in the other thread, then just save yourself time and post over there.

peace to you

 

[Van]

Against folks, @Van proves his intellectual dishonesty
peace to you

Like a broken record, this poster falsely charges me with malfeasance, and ignores truth:

Here is what I said:
Here is the heart-felt question of one believer -
...do 'slacking soul-winners' result in MORE people going to hell? ...

...do diligent soul-winners result in MORE people going to heaven?
The Exhaustive Determinist answer is no, God determined those going to heaven, and thus the rest not going to heaven before creation.

The Scriptural answer is yes, diligent evangelism "hastens the day" thus more people per time interval, so the end of the age occurs sooner, resulting in less people not going to heaven. ​

 

[kyredneck]

The Scriptural answer is yes, diligent evangelism "hastens the day" thus more people per time interval, so the end of the age occurs sooner, resulting in less people not going to heaven.

More cockamamieness from Vanology.