The Birth and Nature of Christ

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Ps 53:2 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

HP: I believe it was Linda that brought up this text in support of constitutional depravity or OS.

Upon this verse I would remark that such is simply not the case. No where does this verse state or imply that man is sinful from birth. The most that can be deduced from this verse is that ‘all we like sheep have GONE astray.’ Note they were not born astray, but have, according to this text, “gone back’ and ‘become filthy,’ not born filthy or were born 'back.'

Again, this text in no way supports constitutional moral depravity in the least.

 

[EdSutton]

Can I get any odds on how long this one will take to reach 30 pages??

2 to 1 less than 4 days.

Considering we have moved beyond 20 pages in less than 26 hours, I'd say your time guess was overly generous.

Ed

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

SfiC: It may or may not deny the virgin birth

HP: Thank you. There is one that even though he might disagree with overall position can at least ‘possibly’ see the lack of reasoning in DHK’s statement. That is a good start. How about the rest on the list? Is DHK’s remark that if God used the sperm of man it would deny or negate the virgin birth? If so why or how?

I am NOT asking anyone to agree with my position, but rather to examine my position fairly without simply throwing the word ‘heretic’ into the discussion without just cause, as DHK seems bent on doing.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

ES: Considering we have moved beyond 20 pages in less than 26 hours, I'd say your time guess was overly generous.

HP: Good morning Brother Ed. Do you have any comments on the OP of this thread, in particular my quetion to the list just posted concerning the idea floated by DHK that if the Holy Spirit used the sperm of man it would somehow consitute fornication?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

ES: Considering we have moved beyond 20 pages in less than 26 hours, I'd say your time guess was overly generous

.

HP: I am about to conclude that we would not see this thread progress to 30 pages before the Lord returns if everyone on here so far would be limited to a discussion of the actual questions posed in the OP. :laugh:

 

[Agnus_Dei]

Who do you have in mind?

Are you suggesting that only people who agree with you are saved?

If so, then wow, just wow.

You didn’t know cowboymatt? Eliyahu, is the BB Pope, in regard to faith and morals, he’s infallible and all of us need to submit to his authority and we’ll be saved, b/c there’s no salvation outside of Eliyahu’s magisterium.

InXC
-

 

[cowboymatt]

You didn’t know cowboymatt? Eliyahu, is the BB Pope, in regard to faith and morals, he’s infallible and all of us need to submit to his authority and we’ll be saved, b/c there’s no salvation outside of Eliyahu’s magisterium.

InXC
-

That should be part of the material one has to read to be a member here!

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

SfiC: but it certainly would deny the deity of Jesus Christ.

HP: So I take it you do NOT believe that God could inhabit a real live human being after all? It would seem to me that you deny any and all true Incarnation completely. May I repeat a verse posted many times before? “God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:”

 

[standingfirminChrist]

HP: So I take it you do NOT believe that God could inhabit a real live human being after all? It would seem to me that you deny any and all true Incarnation completely. May I repeat a verse posted many times before? “God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:”

HP, if Joseph's sperm were used, and Mary's egg were used, Jesus would not be God in the flesh. He would be the son of man only.

What is so hard to understand about that? Even if the Holy Spirit placed Joseph's seed in Mary, Joseph would be the father and not God. The Holy Spirit would basically be acting like a doctor who is helping a couple to have a child just as a surrogate would... through implantation of the seed by other means than normal.

If a doctor puts a seed in a woman and the seed is of a man off the street, that does not make the child to be born the son of the doctor.

 

[annsni]

You could never answer my question.

Are you ready to answer now?

I don't know what question you asked. I went back through the thread and I didn't see any questions addressed to me.

 

[donnA]

And since when was being corruptible damnable?

What?! :BangHead:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Linda: Ps 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

HP: Sorry Linda. This is the verse you spoke of, not the one I posted.

On this verse I remark: The Psalmist is speaking of two groups of individuals in this text, the wicked and the righteous. Read on down to verse 10. If all are wicked as you suppose this verse to be saying, pray tell us where the righteous of verse 10 hail from?

Clearly this verse is pitting the wicked in opposition to the righteous and NOT establishing constitutional depravity or any universal notion of OS in the least.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

SfiC: HP, if Joseph's sperm were used, and Mary's egg were used, Jesus would not be God in the flesh. He would be the son of man only.

HP: I am curious to know something. Do you believe that man is simply flesh or is he comprised of other elements as well? If so, what else does a man possess other than flesh and bones?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Cowby Matt: And since when was being corruptible damnable?

HP: Being made of corruptible flesh is nothing more than being born as mortal beings on a finite planet, all in line with the Creator’s plan. The notion that Adam was not mortal by design, or that Adam was created to live and multiply on a finite planet for an eternity is absolutely absurd for a mind to honestly consider. Finite space demands a finite amount of inhabitants.

God plainly tells us that everything that is seen is temporal. The finite cannot inhabit eternity, it must be changed.

 

[cowboymatt]

HP: Being made of corruptible flesh is nothing more than being born as mortal beings on a finite planet, all in line with the Creator’s plan. The notion that Adam was not mortal by design, or that Adam was created to live and multiply on a finite planet for an eternity is absolutely absurd for a mind to honestly consider. Finite space demands a finite amount of inhabitants.

God plainly tells us that everything that is seen is temporal. The finite cannot inhabit eternity, it must be changed.

Exactly. Thanks!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

What?! :BangHead:

Let me help you bear that burden, Sister DonnA :BangHead:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

SfiC: Let me help you bear that burden, Sister DonnA :BangHead:

HP: I believe that would be properly denoted as a 'will' burden. :laugh:
You both do know that continually pounding your head against a brick wall can corrupt your physical head and thought patterns. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[DHK]

Scripture declares Christ to be the incorruptible seed. Had His body any corruption on it or in it whatsoever, His sacrifice was not accepted and we therefore are all believing on Him in vain.

Scripture declares He would not see corruption. Why are you putting Him in a corruptible body?

Scripture declares that his body would not see corruption after his resurrection. Neither will ours. Our corruptible bodies will put on incorruption; mortal will put on immortality.
Without corruption or decay (of some sort) Jesus would not have been human. Did Jesus have that same glorified body that Peter, James and John saw on the Mount when He was transfigured before them? No! The rest of the time he saw him in a corruptible body like unto ours. If he didn't have a body like ours he would have been unable to die for our sins. He was the sinless son of man able to die for the sinner. The fact that He was a sinless man was one of the qualifications that enabled him to suffer for our sins and pay the penalty for them. To do that he had to be completely and fully man which also entailed being born of a virgin right from the very beginning of life, that is conception or a fertilized egg. No part of his humanity was missing.

 

[DHK]

Mary's egg was not used no matter how much you want to believe it was.

An opinion is simply a vain man's imagination.
Stating something without anything to back it up is absurd.

 

[DHK]

HP: Why would the Holy Spirit implanting human sperm in Mary or the DNA of human sperm, deny the virgin birth?

If the human sperm of Joseph were used (in any way) then Mary would not be a virgin. End of story. When a man's sperm fertilzes a woman's egg the woman is not a virgin. These truths are self-evident. The process doesn't matter.