The blood of Christ

[evangelist6589]

I believe the doctrines of grace are essentials of the faith....they are on the list. Many do not fully grasp the teaching as they should. We are all.still learning.
The bible indicates many will acknowledge things on your list and be as lost as the devil when they awake at the White Throne Judgement.

So Icon are you saying that people like Van who reject the DOG are lost?

 

[Craigbythesea]

I would send him these verses from Peter which states what Baptism really is use more verses if you like... Weather he understands it or not is up to him but being a teacher with a Phd and a teaches at a BibleUniversity sounds to me like he is still in the milk of doctrine and not into meat?... He should have left that along time ago!... I'm only saying... Brother Glen


1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

The very large majority of Christians, but the small minority of Baptists, interpret 1 Peter 3:21-22 like this,

1 Peter 3:18. For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19. in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
20. who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.
21. Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22. who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.

Peter finds here a correspondence between the water of the flood and the water of baptism. The water of the flood lifted the Ark and the eight persons aboard it up out the sinful world that was being destroyed. Corresponding to that, water baptism, when it is not merely the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience, now saves us.

Moreover, upon hearing Peter’s sermon on the day of Pentecost, the Jews and proselytes asked Peter and the other disciples, “Brethren, what shall we do?” (Acts 2:37). And Peter replied, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 2:38). According to Peter, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ serves the purpose of the remission of sins.

Therefore, these Christians believe that Peter teaches that in order to be saved, a person must believe the gospel and receive the truth of it by faith, repent of their sins, and be baptized in water. They may believe, however, as do Roman Catholics, that the grace for salvation is typically conferred through one’s faith in Jesus Christ and baptism, but that that the baptism may be, in extreme circumstances, a baptism of blood, martyrdom, or desire with no water being applied. On the other hand, they may believe, as do some Protestants, that what Peter taught was the normative experience during the early centuries of the Church, but that the exceptional experience that we read of in Acts 10 is becoming, or has become, the normative experience.

None of this, of course, has anything at all to do with one’s understanding regarding being justified by the blood of Christ (Rom. 5:9, etc.).

(All quotations from the Scriptures are from the NASB, 1995)

 

[Don]

Seems to me the emphasis needs to be on verse 20. The eight souls were brought safely through (by) the water in the ark, not the water itself.

 

[Craigbythesea]

Seems to me the emphasis needs to be on verse 20. The eight souls were brought safely through (by) the waterin the ark, not the water itself.

1 Peter 3:18. For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;
19. in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison,
20. who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.
21. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22. who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him. (RSV, with my emphasis )

The theme of vv. 20-21 is salvation by means of water; the theme of vv. 20-21 is not the ark! Peter writes of the correspondence between the water of the flood and the water of baptism. The water of the flood lifted the Ark and the eight persons aboard it up out the sinful world that was being destroyed. Corresponding to that, water baptism, when it is not merely the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience, now saves us.

 

[Don]

You hit upon it with one word: destroys.

The water destroyed. It was the ark that saved.

 

[Iconoclast]

"evangelist6589,

My list? My list? Wrong. Its the Bible's list. Yes there will be false converts who believe the facts, but do not have a relationship indeed.

[/QUOTE]
It is your list if the doctrines of grace are not on it.

So Icon are you saying that people like Van who reject the DOG are lost?

You are asking the wrong question....
1] We all know that everyone on the BB is saved......it is a magical place...everyone is saved according to the rules....

2] It is not my job to see peoples hearts....God alone does that.

3] we cannot see hearts but we can read posts and open rebellion to the truth of God....that might make us wonder...what does this mean?

4] people are at different stages of growth and understanding

5] some might be on the same "team"....but lack vital teaching necessary to move forward.

6] some do not humble themselves before God, but proudly boast of what they did, or what they accepted....

7] some follow false teaching that hinders them from considering what they need to consider

8] some have an agenda to resist the truth as they have been told it was error so they refuse to listen to godly men ,sermons, links to truth ....

9] some have spoken out against the truth often, but unless God gives them boldness they will not admit to it, as the fear of man brings a snare.

10] some have not learned to study to show themselves approved...instead they go to websites that promote error and falsehood and regurgitate the error of foolish and unlearned men.

11] some desire something new and novel, so they reject, old dead theologians as they call them

12] God sometimes providentially holds someone back from certain truths for a time ,for reasons known only to Himself...

There are many other reasons. In any case we are to be faithful to God and His word and give an answer for the hope that is in us.
Error is to be identified.
False teaching is to be identified.
Lying is to be identified and resisted.
False witness in the same way is to be identified and spoken against as it has no place on a Christian website.

 

[Iconoclast]

1 Peter 3:18. For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;
19. in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison,
20. who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.
21. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22. who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him. (RSV, with my emphasis )

The theme of vv. 20-21 is salvation by means of water; the theme of vv. 20-21 is not the ark! Peter writes of the correspondence between the water of the flood and the water of baptism. The water of the flood lifted the Ark and the eight persons aboard it up out the sinful world that was being destroyed. Corresponding to that, water baptism, when it is not merely the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience, now saves us.

If you are suggesting Roman catholic baptism saves anyone you are gravely mistaken.

Therefore, these Christians believe that Peter teaches that in order to be saved, a person must believe the gospel and receive the truth of it by faith, repent of their sins, and be baptized in water. They may believe, however, as do Roman Catholics, that the grace for salvation is typically conferred through one’s faith in Jesus Christ and baptism, but that that the baptism may be, in extreme circumstances, a baptism of blood, martyrdom, or desire with no water being applied. On the other hand, they may believe, as do some Protestants, that what Peter taught was the normative experience during the early centuries of the Church, but that the exceptional experience that we read of in Acts 10 is becoming, or has become, the normative experience.

You do not believe in baptismal regeneration, do you?

 

[Craigbythesea]

You do not believe in baptismal regeneration, do you?

It was certainly not my experience!

 

[evangelist6589]

"evangelist6589,

It is your list if the doctrines of grace are not on it.



You are asking the wrong question....
1] We all know that everyone on the BB is saved......it is a magical place...everyone is saved according to the rules....

2] It is not my job to see peoples hearts....God alone does that.

3] we cannot see hearts but we can read posts and open rebellion to the truth of God....that might make us wonder...what does this mean?

4] people are at different stages of growth and understanding

5] some might be on the same "team"....but lack vital teaching necessary to move forward.

6] some do not humble themselves before God, but proudly boast of what they did, or what they accepted....

7] some follow false teaching that hinders them from considering what they need to consider

8] some have an agenda to resist the truth as they have been told it was error so they refuse to listen to godly men ,sermons, links to truth ....

9] some have spoken out against the truth often, but unless God gives them boldness they will not admit to it, as the fear of man brings a snare.

10] some have not learned to study to show themselves approved...instead they go to websites that promote error and falsehood and regurgitate the error of foolish and unlearned men.

11] some desire something new and novel, so they reject, old dead theologians as they call them

12] God sometimes providentially holds someone back from certain truths for a time ,for reasons known only to Himself...

There are many other reasons. In any case we are to be faithful to God and His word and give an answer for the hope that is in us.
Error is to be identified.
False teaching is to be identified.
Lying is to be identified and resisted.
False witness in the same way is to be identified and spoken against as it has no place on a Christian website.[/QUOTE]

Well Hank Hanagraaf, Ron Rhodes, and others have such a list without the DOG. I agree with the DOG, but I am not saying that one has to be a Calvinist to go to heaven.