The Book of Mormon

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

I have shared my faith in Christ with many LDS missionaries over the years. David’s advice of shut the door on them is not totally out of line. Well it is wrong if you think you are following the Lord’s commands by not sharing your faith. I believe we should always be ready to give a reason (I Pet 3:15). But, for a new Christian or someone who is weak in their faith discussion with these missionaries can be a very bad thing. Remember they are studied up on their faith, they know what they believe and they come to your door ready to share it. If you are not prepared as well as they are then the result may be questions and doubt in your mind instead of the other way around. So I study, I prepare, and I make sure I am ready when they come calling. I used to keep a marked up book of Mormon and a New Kingdom Translation of the Bible (JW version) by my front door (They are put away now; we don’t get the visitors we used to).

My experience witnessing to LDS missionaries has been very good. I have never had one accept Christ on my doorstep but I believe I have planted seeds of truth that the Lord can use to call them later. There are several things I always do. First, we talk on the front porch; I do not allow them into my home. I have chairs on the porch and if I need ask them to leave it is easier then if we go inside. Second, I tell them up front, I am a Baptist preacher, I would love to talk to you about my faith but I have no expectations of converting you and I don’t want you to hold any expectation of converting me. As long as we can talk about out differences in a respectful way that is great, but if it gets personal or ugly then our conversation is over. Third, I always set a time limit. If I can not set aside an hour to spend with them I ask them to come back later, otherwise I look at my watch and I tell them up front, we can talk about this until ____, but then I have other things I need to do.

I usually ask some questions about the really odd peculiarities of their religion (magic underwear, Garden of Eden was in Missouri, Jesus and Satan were brothers, etc). I stress some of the similarities we have. But I always come down to this as my main objection, the idea that we can become gods. Wasn’t that Satan’s great sin to start with? Why would I want to become a god, the very idea is repulsive to me. I was created to glorify God not to become one. I share my faith, use multiple scripture verses, and make them look them up in their bibles and read with me. Put out the word of God, it will not come back void. Usually there is one senior missionary who is a little better trained than the other one and once I start to see cracks in the armor more often than not he will disengage and flee.

Well this was too long for most of you to read. In summary, witness, but prepare first.:thumbs:

 

[dcorbett]

DMH : You are not very good at reading . Try my first sentence again .

You don't have to invite them into your home , I never did . But you can meet with them at an appointed time and place . They'll have their agenda , and you'll have yours . You do agree that they need to be told the biblical truth , right ?

When I was 18, I fell in love with a Mormon boy. I married him. I can tell you this: they are lost people that are going to hell if we don't witness to them. They are not devils, they are LOST. BUT....unless you study what they believe, you cannot show them where they are wrong. I am taking an apologetics course from Liberty Unive right now, and Caner says that a Christian who blindly believes without knowing the proof cannot effectively witness. I agree.

Debbie Mc

 

[dan e.]

I wonder if by not responding any more to this, DMT is actually "slamming the door" on our faces.

 

[charles_creech78]

Well they came to me there was three of them and they told me that there was only one true church and the rest was lieing. But I guess I could of said this scripture to them.Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets which COME to you in sheepes clothing, but inwardly they are rauening wolues. Did they not come me? I did not go to them but they came to me. This is when they lost my respect is when they told me that there church is the true church and all others are lieing. I seen alot of people from all kinds of churches and you can really see they love the Lord. Church to me is saved people not a building. And there is alot of things we the BB board have in comen and that is loving the Lord Jesus Christ. I hope and I pray that we all love him. For he is the reason we live and hope and love and he surely is our life. For what is man if he don't live for God. For we are all ready ya less then nothing.

 

[Ed Edwards]

I'm 64-years-old.
I have no respect for 19-20 year old 'Elders'.
Sorry 'elder' means like OLD FOLKS LIKE ME.

One time I was taking my evening stroll
after dark (90-degrees in the summer here
after dark, but better than 100+) and FOUR
(they usually lurk in pairs) came by on
bicycles with their usual white shirts & black
ties. Well anyway, they picked on one of them
to go hit me up. I was smoking then
a cigarette (it was 20 years or so ago).
So he hits me up about smoking the cigarette.

Sorry, I got introduced to the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) via the Reorganized
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Temple
Lot, from Independence Missouri. Seems after Joseph
Smith, Jr. got killed and Prophet Young (he had like
80 wifes, you know) left that Joseph's Widow:
Emma Smith, took Joseph Smith III back to some
property they owned in Independence Missouri
(the place Joe said his Brother Jesus would come
back to earth one day). The founded the
Reorganized. That is where I first heard about the
LDS churches. Seems Emma was the one who
got onto Joseph Smith, Jr. and made him
add the rules about not smokin' and not drinkin' booze nor
soda pop. Why the LDS folk can't even be tea -totalers,
they don't get to drink tea with caffeine.

Well anyway, after I told him his lesson about HOW IT
IS, he went backtail a draggin' back to his three buddies
and they left.

BTW, One day I saw two elders get out of their
automobile at Wal-mart. Gotta be a GOOD witness
if you are going to be a witness at all.

Elder indeed. Sorry any of you 19-20 years olds, you
ain't elders yet. I have a 20-year-old GRANDSON starting
last Sunday

 

[BobRyan]

You are missing the point Ed.

If you can't win over a young 19 - 20 year old who has barely studied the Bible for even 5 months prior to "going out to the world to witness for his faith" when God send one to you -- then who do you witness to??

These are young college kids, far from home, who know almost nothing about the Bible -- and God sends them to your door for bible studies.

Who wouldn't be able to witness to little ones such as these??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Ed Edwards]

I agree with everything you said, Brother BobRyan.
Well, I don't agree that I missed any points.

 

[Oasis]

I doubt any Mormons will ride their bikes or drive(they are allowed now)to my little town. But, if they did? Weather permitting we would sit on the patio. If not, we would speak indoors. This is not fellowshipping with them. It is our responsibility to witness to these folks. They are completely lost and sliding down hell's path.

They will use the tactic of giving you a free Bible in order to also give you "another testament of Jesus Christ", which is the BOM. Be aware, they do not follow the BOM for doctrine and many Mormons are poorly versed in it. Their doctrine comes from "The Doctrines and Covenants". It is a book of "ongoing revelation". They rely completely on their leader's(past and present)"revelations".

Mormons and JWs are not as easy to witness to as some others. Their support base(especially Mormons)is very strong. There are many good resources for learning how to witness to them. One is a book entitled, "Fast Facts on False Teachings", by Ron Carlson and Ed Decker. Ed Decker put out a book in 1995 entitled, "Decker's Complete Handbook on Mormonism". It was an eye opener for me. He was a missionary for the Mormon church for 20 years, before being converted in 1975 or thereabouts. His insight into their religion is invaluable. Google their names. The websites are very good.

If you're really interested, go visit the Mormon section on this website. Many who witness to the Mormons there are former Mormons themselves. You will learn much by just following their threads and any of them would be happy to answer your questions.

Above all, know your Scripture. It's the best defense. It's also important to understand the enemy. Pick up a resource or google a site that gives you facts on some of these apotate teachings...Mormonism, JWs, emergent church, etc...

 

[Jesus Freak]

The Sabbath commandment

We believe that the gift of prophecy is "from God" not from "lesser gods".

We believe as God said that this gift was for the NT church (1Cor 12 and 1Cor 14 "desire earnestly spiritual gifts especially that you may prophesy".)

We believe that the gift is defined exactly as God defined it in Numbers 12 "IF there is a prophet among you I WILL make myself known to them in a dream or a vision".

We do NOT believe that the NT prophets like Anna, Philips 4 daughters, Agabus and those in Corinth (1 Cor 14) were all "writing scripture" just because they were given the gift of prophecy. RATHER God used some to write scripture and some prophets to minister just to the saints of their day. Scripture ceased to be written around the close of the first century A.D. ALL doctrine is to be tested against scripture - for on scripture alone it stands or falls.

But in all cases of inspiration and the gift of prophecy the source is GOD not "God vs some lesser non-inspired god". The only reason prophecy has any value - any authority at all - is that God is the source. Period.

WE believe EXACTLY what Paul stated in 1Thess 4 regarding "those who have fallen asleep" calling them "the DEAD in Christ".

we believe in doctrine 100% tested "sola scriptura".

We believe the 10 commandments are valid.

We believe that breaking any one of the 10 commandments is just as wrong as breaking any OTHER of the 10 commandments.

We AGREE with D.L. Moody that the Sabbath commandment remains.

in Christ,

Bob

Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days.
--------Law observances were abolished in Christ!!!!

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 3:31 "Do we then ABOLISH the Law God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God!"



What was the PRe-CROSS doctrine on Judging others?

Matt 7 "JUDGE not that you be not Judged"

What is the Post-Cross doctrine on Judging Others?

"Let no one judge you".


What was Paul doing in 1Cor 5 -- judging the church even while ABSENT?

What are WE doing here with the book of Mormon?


Judging! As Christ said to Judge in Matt 7.



in Christ,

Bob

 

[Jesus Freak]

No longer under the Law or the Sabbath

Romans 3:31 "Do we then ABOLISH the Law God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God!"



What was the PRe-CROSS doctrine on Judging others?

Matt 7 "JUDGE not that you be not Judged"

What is the Post-Cross doctrine on Judging Others?

"Let no one judge you".


What was Paul doing in 1Cor 5 -- judging the church even while ABSENT?

What are WE doing here with the book of Mormon?


Judging! As Christ said to Judge in Matt 7.



in Christ,

Bob

I was making the point that we are no longer under the law or the sabbath!" If we are still under the sabbath then we are under the entire law and cannot be saved. No one has ever been saved by the law. Galatians 2:16 . If we are under grace we are saved apart from the law." " Remember that a person is saved by faith alone in Christ alone." Bibleline Ministries

 

[Jesus Freak]

justification by faith honours the law

Romans 3:31 "Do we then ABOLISH the Law God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God!"



What was the PRe-CROSS doctrine on Judging others?

Matt 7 "JUDGE not that you be not Judged"

What is the Post-Cross doctrine on Judging Others?

"Let no one judge you".


What was Paul doing in 1Cor 5 -- judging the church even while ABSENT?

What are WE doing here with the book of Mormon?


Judging! As Christ said to Judge in Matt 7.



in Christ,

Bob

" Christ, on the sinner's behalf, establishes the law by enduring its penalty, death." Scofield Study Bible :jesus:

 

[BobRyan]

Interesting "COMMENT" now for actual BIBLE (After all - we do not want to be like the mormons relying on uninspired COMMENTS instead of actual BIBLE)

WHY is it that Paul writes

Rom 3:31 NASB
"Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we Establish the Law"[/b] Rom 3:31 NASB

Rom 3:31 NKJV
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Rom 3:31 NIV
31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Rom 3:31 KJV
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 3:31 YLT
31 Law then do we make useless through the faith? let it not be! yea, we do establish law.



The Post-cross teaching of the apostles CONTINUES to support that importance of God’s Word – God’s Commandments – and obedience rather than rebellion.

I Jn 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14
14[b] Blessed are they that do his commandments,[/b] that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I Jn 2:3-4
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.


Rom 3
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.





Which 10 Commandments?

Rom 13:9For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Matt 5:17-22
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Jesus Freak]

Justification is apart from the law

Interesting "COMMENT" now for actual BIBLE (After all - we do not want to be like the mormons relying on uninspired COMMENTS instead of actual BIBLE)

WHY is it that Paul writes

Rom 3:31 NASB
"Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we Establish the Law"[/b] Rom 3:31 NASB

Rom 3:31 NKJV
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Rom 3:31 NIV
31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Rom 3:31 KJV
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 3:31 YLT
31 Law then do we make useless through the faith? let it not be! yea, we do establish law.



The Post-cross teaching of the apostles CONTINUES to support that importance of God’s Word – God’s Commandments – and obedience rather than rebellion.

I Jn 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14
14[b] Blessed are they that do his commandments,[/b] that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I Jn 2:3-4
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.


Rom 3
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.





Which 10 Commandments?

Rom 13:9For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Matt 5:17-22
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14) For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 16)Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all.

Are you perfectly obedient to the whole Law? No one was or will ever be saved by keeping the Law- we are saved by God's grace by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ!

 

[BobRyan]

While you may see in the texts below "saved by Law keeping" - I do not.

WHY is it that Paul writes

Rom 3:31 NASB
"Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we Establish the Law"[/b] Rom 3:31 NASB

Rom 3:31 NKJV
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Rom 3:31 NIV
31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Rom 3:31 KJV
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 3:31 YLT
31 Law then do we make useless through the faith? let it not be! yea, we do establish law.



The Post-cross teaching of the apostles CONTINUES to support that importance of God’s Word – God’s Commandments – and obedience rather than rebellion.

I Jn 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14
14[b] Blessed are they that do his commandments,[/b] that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I Jn 2:3-4
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.


Rom 3
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

 

[Jesus Freak]

Simple question

While you may see in the texts below "saved by Law keeping" - I do not.

WHY is it that Paul writes

Rom 3:31 NASB
"Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we Establish the Law"[/b] Rom 3:31 NASB

Rom 3:31 NKJV
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Rom 3:31 NIV
31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Rom 3:31 KJV
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 3:31 YLT
31 Law then do we make useless through the faith? let it not be! yea, we do establish law.



The Post-cross teaching of the apostles CONTINUES to support that importance of God’s Word – God’s Commandments – and obedience rather than rebellion.

I Jn 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14
14[b] Blessed are they that do his commandments,[/b] that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I Jn 2:3-4
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.


Rom 3
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Answer this simple question....Do you,as a SDA, believe that those who do not "keep the Sabbath" and choose to worship on Sunday (Sunday-Keeping) will have the mark of the beast in the future? Therefore-no salvation??? Is salvation determined by strict adherence to Old Testament Law?

 

[Jesus Freak]

Last post on subject

I've decided not to post on this subject anymore. Its clear you have your views and I have mine. I joined this board to enjoy reading the posts. I shouldn't have started posting, my wife says i get to worked up. Ha Ha.

God Bless,
Tony

 

[BobRyan]

I was making the point that we are no longer under the law or the sabbath!" If we are still under the sabbath then we are under the entire law and cannot be saved. No one has ever been saved by the law. Galatians 2:16 . If we are under grace we are saved apart from the law." " Remember that a person is saved by faith alone in Christ alone." Bibleline Ministries

Do not commit adultery?

Do not Murder?

Honor your Father and Mother "the FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6??

You abolish the law as if "doing God a favor"??

Rom 3:31 points the saints in an entirely different direction as did Christ in Matt 5.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Answer this simple question....Do you,as a SDA, believe that those who do not "keep the Sabbath" and choose to worship on Sunday (Sunday-Keeping) will have the mark of the beast in the future? Therefore-no salvation??? Is salvation determined by strict adherence to Old Testament Law?

#1. I have given you quite a bit of NT texts pointing to your error regarding the LAW that our faith ESTABLISHES.
#2. You seem to want to sweep it all way - diverting instead to a Rev 14 text that SDAs claim predicts a certain kind of future.

SDA's see in Rev 14 a prediction of events in the future. But if that prediction never happens -- then they predict "incorrectly".

Why "get worked up" since you "predict they are wrong". BUT if it does not go according to "your prediction" -- then "you are the one who predicted incorrectly".

Nothing to get worked up over.

The bigger deal is -- whether you really are justified with trying to "Abolish" that which Paul says our faith "ESTABLISHES".

A far more interesting point to pursue in my opinion.

One thing we know for sure from Isaiah 66 (something even Seventh-day Baptist know not just SDAs)
"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[annsni]

Interestingly, what ELSE does Paul say?

Romans 6:14 says "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."

Romans 7:6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."