The Book of Mormon

[BobRyan]

In Romans 6 Paul argues that if we serve rebellion against God's Law (SIN) then SIN is our master.

In Romans 7 Paul argues that even AFTER the cross he AGREES "THE law is Holy just and GOOD but I AM sinful sold under sin" - Paul states that in his mind/heart he CHOOSES obedience to God's Law.

Is it any wonder that Paul says in Romans 3 "Do we then abolish the law by our faith? God forbid!! IN fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"! Rom 3:31

Is it any wonder that Paul says in Romans 2 "For it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the LAW WILL BE JustiFIED" Rom 3:11-13.


Yet many here claim they "Choose that the law be abolished".

What a contrast.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Aaron]

What do you think about this? They say this is the true church of God and there is no other church. I had three of them come to my house today. They believe JOSEPH SMITH was a prophet of God who restablish the church of God and that JOHN THE BAPTIST CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN and Baptisted him and then told him that he should baptist each other in a river. they believe the gospel as established by Jesus Christ was lost. This period is called the great Apostasy. This apostasy resulted in the formation of many churches with conflicting teachings and it says Joseph Smith was a prophet to retore the gospel and the priesthood to th earth. To me they are saying we are liers and are not of the church of God. What do you think?

The Book of Mormon, or The Record of the Nephites, is alleged to be the history of the ancient inhabitants of the Americas, which, according the book, are direct descendants of Jacob. Lehi and his family were given divine inspiration to come to the Americas to avoid the Babylonian captivity. After arriving, Lehi's sons, Laman and Nephi, became two nations. The Lamanites rebelled and God cursed them with dark skin. The Nephites were righteous and lilly-white.

After Christ's Ascension, He then descended like an ICBM to the Americas and started his earthly ministry over again among the Nephites. He chose the twelve most righteous Nephites to be His disciples, and then much of the book of Isaiah and the Gospels is plagarized.

But Christ's Kingdom didn't take hold in the West. The Church got a good start, but every last man woman and child, with the exception of three men, became corrupt. Instead of giving the Nephites dark skin, God completely wiped them out leaving only the red-skinned Lamanites to run amok in the Americas. Well, only the Lamanites plus the three Nephites who were told they would live on earth until the Third Advent of Christ as a reward for their faithfulness.

And that's the story of the Book of Mormon in a nutshell. This is the whole basis of the Restoration. Discredit the Book of Mormon and you've discredited the entire body of Mormonistic sects. If you will read the Book of Mormon (at least as it exists among the RLDS/Community of Christ/Church of Jesus Christ Restored) you see that with the exception of two artful similies, I have given a full and accurate summary of its contents. It's all poppycock and fairy tale.

 

[bobbyd]

I have shared my faith in Christ with many LDS missionaries over the years. David’s advice of shut the door on them is not totally out of line. Well it is wrong if you think you are following the Lord’s commands by not sharing your faith. I believe we should always be ready to give a reason (I Pet 3:15). But, for a new Christian or someone who is weak in their faith discussion with these missionaries can be a very bad thing. Remember they are studied up on their faith, they know what they believe and they come to your door ready to share it. If you are not prepared as well as they are then the result may be questions and doubt in your mind instead of the other way around. So I study, I prepare, and I make sure I am ready when they come calling. I used to keep a marked up book of Mormon and a New Kingdom Translation of the Bible (JW version) by my front door (They are put away now; we don’t get the visitors we used to).

My experience witnessing to LDS missionaries has been very good. I have never had one accept Christ on my doorstep but I believe I have planted seeds of truth that the Lord can use to call them later. There are several things I always do. First, we talk on the front porch; I do not allow them into my home. I have chairs on the porch and if I need ask them to leave it is easier then if we go inside. Second, I tell them up front, I am a Baptist preacher, I would love to talk to you about my faith but I have no expectations of converting you and I don’t want you to hold any expectation of converting me. As long as we can talk about out differences in a respectful way that is great, but if it gets personal or ugly then our conversation is over. Third, I always set a time limit. If I can not set aside an hour to spend with them I ask them to come back later, otherwise I look at my watch and I tell them up front, we can talk about this until ____, but then I have other things I need to do.

I usually ask some questions about the really odd peculiarities of their religion (magic underwear, Garden of Eden was in Missouri, Jesus and Satan were brothers, etc). I stress some of the similarities we have. But I always come down to this as my main objection, the idea that we can become gods. Wasn’t that Satan’s great sin to start with? Why would I want to become a god, the very idea is repulsive to me. I was created to glorify God not to become one. I share my faith, use multiple scripture verses, and make them look them up in their bibles and read with me. Put out the word of God, it will not come back void. Usually there is one senior missionary who is a little better trained than the other one and once I start to see cracks in the armor more often than not he will disengage and flee.

Well this was too long for most of you to read. In summary, witness, but prepare first.:thumbs:

I'm with you on this one. I've invited them in, allowed them to share what they wanted to on the condition that i too get to share my faith with them, and they have always been open to the possibility of an unarmed person going into a battle of the wits with them.
In the end, i'm not sure if any of them have accepted the truth of Scripture that says who Jesus is, what Jesus did for them and why...but i do know that seeds of doubt were planted.
Proof of this is if the missionaries come back and one of them is different and more experienced.

 

[JamieinNH]

I just had two young men come to me door and want to talk. I explained my stance in my church and my beliefs and they asked me to do one thing.

They wanted me to read two chapters in their Book of Mormon and come back and talk about it in a few days. I told them ok, only because I know nothing about them, not because I doubt my faith.

So, I know there is a community here at Baptist Board where I can gain knowledge and information from, so I do a search and find this thread..


<-- Steps on Soapbox-->

IN the 5+ pages I find more fighting among us than pulling together and preparing for and answering the question of the OP.

Maybe that's why we have a hard time converting and winning people to CHrist!

Thanks to the 4 or so people that acutally ANSWERED the question, as your resources will help me when witnessing to these guys later. To the ones that want to argue about everything, well know that your "disagreement" have derailed this thread somewhat, and where this thread could have been a great resource to people like myself who have Mormon's on their doorstep, you have run it amuck. Please consider this in the future while posting that some of us want information that will be helpful to witness to the lost souls showing up on our steps.

<-- Steps Off Soapbox-->

As for the rest of you, if you have anything useful that I can use to witness to these guys, please post it and many thanks!

Jamie

 

[BobRyan]

As I said in my earlier posts - Mormon doctrine is not actually taught from the BoM -- The BoM itself is used primarily just to claim that Joseph Smith was inspired and has a better Bible than the Bible itself.

No real doctrinal argument there except that "prophets exist" according to the actual Bible.

The BoM appears to be edited by Smith -- with additions made to the introduction for example - but otherwise it appears to be the work of Samuel Spaulding who is more of an Anabaptist in the 18th century amillennial and not much inclined to distinctive Mormon doctrines. He was writing what he thought to be a Pilgrim's Progress story for the Americas.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Tom Butler]

By all means, invite them in if you like. But if want to engage them in a discussion, you better know what you're doing, or they'll eat your lunch. My advice is to find some writings by ex-Mormons and ex-JWs, and read their advice on how to witness.

Paul Blizard is a former JW turned Baptist pastor. His website is one of the best around for learning about JWs.

http://www.geocities.com/paulblizard/main2.html

A Google search will likely turn up some good sites about Mormons.

If you do invite them in, ask them to give their salvation testimony and watch them squirm. They'll cite their baptism, but insist on hearing about the time which God worked a radical transformation on them and brought them to the point of repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. They really can't do it. But you can, so give them your testimony. You canwitness to them through your testimony. They'll leave very quickly after that, but you've smiled and been cordial all the way through.

 

[JamieinNH]

By all means, invite them in if you like. But if want to engage them in a discussion, you better know what you're doing, or they'll eat your lunch. My advice is to find some writings by ex-Mormons and ex-JWs, and read their advice on how to witness.

That was my reasoning for coming to the forum to look for 'help' and answers. I know some of these people can be very convincing.

A Google search will likely turn up some good sites about Mormons.

I did do a Google search, but like anything, you can't always trust what you read on the web. Hearing from a fellow Baptist with first hand knowledge is better. Especially if that memeber of a Pastor.

If you do invite them in, ask them to give their salvation testimony and watch them squirm. They'll cite their baptism, but insist on hearing about the time which God worked a radical transformation on them and brought them to the point of repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. They really can't do it. But you can, so give them your testimony. You canwitness to them through your testimony. They'll leave very quickly after that, but you've smiled and been cordial all the way through.

This is the type of help I was looking for. Giving my testimony is quite simple and it changed my life. It's interesting to know that they can't or won't have the same life transforming story or be able to share how God touched their lives.

Thanks for the help!
Jamie

 

[David Michael Harris]

Wow. I guess there are exceptions to the DIRECT command of Jesus:

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"

We ALL were once dead in sin. We all were in need of a Savior. At some point in each of our lives, someone came and shared the Gospel with us. Whatever beliefs we had before, someone came and showed the truth to us. I know that there are many I share my faith with - some respond, some don't. That's OK. It's not up to me to make people believe but it's up to God. However, we are to preach the Gospel to all of creation.

Mark 13:10 - And the gospel must first be preached to all nations.
Mark 16:15 - He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.
Luke 24:47 - and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations,

All - there are no conditions on that 'all'

I thank God when I was in high school, that I didn't avoid the discussions I had with a young girl who was being taught by Jehovah's Witnesses. She called me 4 years after high school telling me that by my witness and my testimony to her, she eventually turned from the JW, was saved, baptized, met a wonderful godly man and was married. He became a pastor. If I had followed your thinking, this wonderful woman of God might still be locked in a lie.

Time will tell.

David

 

[David Michael Harris]

I would be interested in hearing a Scriptural defense of your thoughts. More specifically:

1) That taking an opportunity to tell them about your faith in Jesus is wrong

2) How the people at your door is "basically the devil"

3) How shutting your door on them in any way reflects Jesus


Any kind of difficulty in demonstrating a Scriptural defense is definitely understood....since there really is none.

Thought I already did that?

David

 

[David Michael Harris]

Oh yeah, this would be interesting to know too....how is it that showing grace and hospitality to them shares "in their evil work"?

What would it be like if God had the same attitude as you?

Use your brain.

Invite Hitler to tea why dont you.

David

 

[David Michael Harris]

Wow.....I didn't realize that Irenaeus wrote in the Bible. Which book was that?

Do you wear glasses?

David

 

[David Michael Harris]

In your entire rant there is no offering of anything....only a slamming of the door!

GEEZE!!

It's what God will do.

David

 

[David Michael Harris]

Nothing unless you are disobeying Jesus' direct command to spread the Gospel.



Yes. But where is preaching the Gospel evil?



Exactly. When you suppress the truth from those who need to hear it, it is very evil.



Absolutely. We need to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.



Yes, we are.



Absolutely. We need to be firmly rooted in the Word and we will be like the trees planted by the water - not able to be moved.



Absolutely. There will be people lost. But it's our job to make sure that they've heard the Gospel.



And??



That's sad. You're holding the truth from them. I wonder what Jesus will say about that. I'm thinking of the parable of the talents.....



No - there is the spirit of evangelism. Atleast in the churches I know of. Who decides that someone is not worthy of salvation? YOU?



It sounds like you don't offer the Gospel to anyone unless they fit your definition of who's "worthy".

Scripture is clear in this. I'm sorry you are not seeing it.

I am more evangelic than you know, this tirade of arrows is not fair.

Tomorrow is another day.

David

 

[David Michael Harris]

I have shared my faith in Christ with many LDS missionaries over the years. David’s advice of shut the door on them is not totally out of line. Well it is wrong if you think you are following the Lord’s commands by not sharing your faith. I believe we should always be ready to give a reason (I Pet 3:15). But, for a new Christian or someone who is weak in their faith discussion with these missionaries can be a very bad thing. Remember they are studied up on their faith, they know what they believe and they come to your door ready to share it. If you are not prepared as well as they are then the result may be questions and doubt in your mind instead of the other way around. So I study, I prepare, and I make sure I am ready when they come calling. I used to keep a marked up book of Mormon and a New Kingdom Translation of the Bible (JW version) by my front door (They are put away now; we don’t get the visitors we used to).

My experience witnessing to LDS missionaries has been very good. I have never had one accept Christ on my doorstep but I believe I have planted seeds of truth that the Lord can use to call them later. There are several things I always do. First, we talk on the front porch; I do not allow them into my home. I have chairs on the porch and if I need ask them to leave it is easier then if we go inside. Second, I tell them up front, I am a Baptist preacher, I would love to talk to you about my faith but I have no expectations of converting you and I don’t want you to hold any expectation of converting me. As long as we can talk about out differences in a respectful way that is great, but if it gets personal or ugly then our conversation is over. Third, I always set a time limit. If I can not set aside an hour to spend with them I ask them to come back later, otherwise I look at my watch and I tell them up front, we can talk about this until ____, but then I have other things I need to do.

I usually ask some questions about the really odd peculiarities of their religion (magic underwear, Garden of Eden was in Missouri, Jesus and Satan were brothers, etc). I stress some of the similarities we have. But I always come down to this as my main objection, the idea that we can become gods. Wasn’t that Satan’s great sin to start with? Why would I want to become a god, the very idea is repulsive to me. I was created to glorify God not to become one. I share my faith, use multiple scripture verses, and make them look them up in their bibles and read with me. Put out the word of God, it will not come back void. Usually there is one senior missionary who is a little better trained than the other one and once I start to see cracks in the armor more often than not he will disengage and flee.

Well this was too long for most of you to read. In summary, witness, but prepare first.:thumbs:

Thanks tentmaker, I was hassled by jw's from the word go, even had them move in next door, maybe that is why I am a bit strong.

I hold to the Bible though.

David

 

[David Michael Harris]

When I was 18, I fell in love with a Mormon boy. I married him. I can tell you this: they are lost people that are going to hell if we don't witness to them. They are not devils, they are LOST. BUT....unless you study what they believe, you cannot show them where they are wrong. I am taking an apologetics course from Liberty Unive right now, and Caner says that a Christian who blindly believes without knowing the proof cannot effectively witness. I agree.

Debbie Mc

Debbie, I am sorry.

David

 

[David Michael Harris]

I wonder if by not responding any more to this, DMT is actually "slamming the door" on our faces.

Dan, not been here in a while, been arguing and getting banned from the puritan board and arguing also with hypercalvinists.

And some other projects etc etc.

David

 

[David Michael Harris]

Btw, the mormon issue in America seems very political these days.

I am not surprised by the arrows .

David

 

[annsni]

Time will tell.

David

HUH? I graduated from high school 25 years ago and this woman is still walking with the Lord in ministry with her husband. Time will tell what??

 

[David Michael Harris]

HUH? I graduated from high school 25 years ago and this woman is still walking with the Lord in ministry with her husband. Time will tell what??

Then I totally repent And say that your correct.

Forgive me.

I will not say another word on this issue accept that you are apparently correct.

God bless you.

David

 

[SaggyWoman]

Back when the Olympics were in SLC, I led a group out there to do a mission work. When I went out for a preview trip, I went down town and watched a "movie" put out by Mormons at one of their amazing structures that propogated their false teaching.

I am still amazed that they put to video that Jesus appeared after his resurrection in the Americas to the Indians. I cannot find that in Biblical scripture.